Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Five Reasons I Reject the Doctrine of Transubstantiation
Reclaiming the Mind Credo House ^ | March 8, 2013 | C Michael Patton

Posted on 07/09/2015 9:33:36 AM PDT by RnMomof7

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 581-598 next last
To: Mad Dawg
A cubic object would be a bad marble.

Not to a MineCraft® fanatic!

361 posted on 07/12/2015 3:29:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 275 | View Replies]

To: verga
Take a deep breath. It appears you are somewhat agitated. The RM has stated that these types of discussion are not for every one.

As well, there is an abiding curse (anathema) placed on all Christians who deny this doctrine:


362 posted on 07/12/2015 3:30:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 278 | View Replies]

To: verga
Mgh is playing games with post 171, that quote has not been authenticated yet.

How many years did it take to 'authenticate' what the 3 Portuguese children experienced?

363 posted on 07/12/2015 3:31:26 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 279 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
Just tell your father in law to sit down with a priest and girt that question answered.

That would kinda wrap things up.

364 posted on 07/12/2015 3:32:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 289 | View Replies]

To: cuban leaf
...but he thinks he’s too stupid to understand it...

Does he VOTE?

Does he 'understand' politics?

365 posted on 07/12/2015 3:33:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 293 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear; Mark17

Right here it is proven the squirrels make very poor auto mechanics.

All they want to do is get loose with the nuts...

366 posted on 07/12/2015 3:36:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 295 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Do Rc's know what a metaphor is ???

I do!!!

To graze in!

367 posted on 07/12/2015 3:37:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 314 | View Replies]

To: rwa265
1419 Having passed from this world to the Father...

HE's gonna STAY there until the Last Trump sounds!

He no gonna return in a Host!

368 posted on 07/12/2015 3:39:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 335 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Gomer would get a tickle out of that ...

Gomer is getting tickled improperly these days (and for a long, LONG time before; too).

We've prayed for the man every time has has made an appearance at the 500 Mile Race.

He's not dead yet; so there is still a little hope!


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/gomer-pyles-jim-nabors-marries-416768


1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


369 posted on 07/12/2015 3:44:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 340 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
From this authority the aforesaid heretics have taken occasion to err from evilly understanding Augustine's words.


Don't wanna do THAT!!!


As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18

 

Augustine, sermon:

"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer.John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327

Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.

 

Augustine, sermon:

For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)

 

Augustine, sermon:

And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289

 

Augustine, sermon:

Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95

 

Augustine, sermon:

...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193

 

Augustine, Psalm LXI:

Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)

 

• Augustine, in “Retractions,”

In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.

 

370 posted on 07/12/2015 3:46:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 344 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
From this authority the aforesaid heretics have taken occasion to ...

Screeching HERETIC! must have been the RACIST!!! of it's day!

371 posted on 07/12/2015 3:47:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 344 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
If there are, I bet they don’t think that big letters in changing fonts make the argument any better.

Yeah; but it DOES give someone with no answer, an excuse to dismiss WHAT was said out of hand; doesn't it.

372 posted on 07/12/2015 3:48:51 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 346 | View Replies]

To: metmom
Don't over analyze things and attribute motive without knowing for sure.

I believe that accusing someone of "over analyzing" something is mind reading. Didn't you just worn someone not to do that very thing?

373 posted on 07/12/2015 3:55:32 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 324 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear
Catholics like to pic an choose which of their leadership should be taken seriously

Can you document that this man is in a position of leadership?

374 posted on 07/12/2015 3:57:37 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 331 | View Replies]

To: verga; metmom
I believe that accusing someone of "over analyzing" something is mind reading.

Nah, overanalyzing can be objectively measured. Too many words in the analysis document. Too many hours logged doing the analysis. What's going on inside the person's head does not have to be known to reach the conclusion that whatever it is, there's too much of the wrong kind of it. :)

Peace,

SR

375 posted on 07/12/2015 4:15:27 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 373 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; Springfield Reformer

IMPOSSIBLE!!

I agree.

I guess we can find some idiot Catholic writer, bearing a Nihil Obstat and and Imprimatur like some token in a computer game, who will say that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist.

As I said before, when people aren't yelling at the Catholic Church for being rigid and inflexible, they yell at the Catholic Church for being too tolerant. And to me, that's a good suggestion to be Catholic: Everyone hates us.

Something like this is in Chesterton. If the tall say we are too short, the short say we are too tall ... if the thin say we are too stout and the stout say we are too thin ... if the strict say we are too genial and the genial say we are too strict ...
That's not necessarily a bad sign.

We didn't get all Scholastic 'n stuff just to put others down. We wanted to find a way to explain the Gospel to the Gentiles. And some of those Gentiles were pretty smart and thoughtful. You all strain out the gnat of transubstantiation (which is by no means a matter of φύσις or φυσική) while we were struggling to help them deal with the camel of the Resurrection.

Now, consider what we really mean by "physical." I suggest we mean something whose presence is perceived by the sense, by instruments which enhance the senses, or by deductions from what is seen (the "species" in the old sense).

But here is what the "Angelic Doctor" says:

But substance, as such, is not visible to the bodily eye, nor does it come under any one of the senses, nor under the imagination, but solely under the intellect, whose object is "what a thing is" (De Anima iii).
-- III, Q.76. A 7, "Article 7. Whether the body of Christ, as it is in this sacrament, can be seen by any eye, at least by a glorified one?"
Whatever that it, it ain't "physical" as moderns use the term.
376 posted on 07/12/2015 4:22:43 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 348 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg

There is a reality so close to you that someone there could reach across and smack you, but you cannot see that realm because you were fabricated with 4D reality factors. I can prove that realm is there using scriptures, but I cannot show you that realm. Is that realm ‘real’. well, yes and no. It is real when it intersects my realm ... or Belshazzar’s realm. But if something is in that realm is it also in our realm? Can you answer that one cogently ... in 200 words or less, please?


377 posted on 07/12/2015 4:27:16 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 376 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
I don't know. I think it was "technical" to some extent. Don't let the movies sway you.

YEah, Athanasius was rowdy and supposedly Nicholas popped Aries in the face. But for me it'sreally a categorization of error.

In Augustine's time the questions were "works righeousness" brought to you by Pelagius, and Whether, How, and To What Extent God rejected people who wussed out under the persecutions and then repented (Donatism.)I think those are good questions.

378 posted on 07/12/2015 4:27:28 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 371 | View Replies]

To: metmom
Except that if you express assurance of your salvation, you are accused of having the sin of *presumption*.

I am happy as a pig in slop, to be guilty of the sin of "presumption" I have assurance of salvation, ergo, I am guilty. It does my heart good. 😂😇😎

379 posted on 07/12/2015 4:52:27 PM PDT by Mark17 (Thy goodness faileth never. Good shepherd may I sing thy praise, within thy house forever. Amen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 242 | View Replies]

To: cuban leaf
The old testament is about God’s relationship with a nation called Israel. The new testament is about Jesus relationship with me, personally.

I don't think so. The New Covenant is about Christ's relationship is with His Bride, the church, of which you are a member. Is your membership vested in a local, autonomous Biblical church? That is the only organism with members ordained to congregate for teaching and preserving the commandments of Christ (Mt. 28:20a), and for the observation of the Lord's Remembrance Supper (Lk. 22:17-29, 1 Cor. 11:24-26), AFIK.

The impression I get is that the conduct of the rite of communion outside the assembly of the brethren only on your say-so is not the plan or context provided by the Lord's example for it. I am not of the RCC convincement, but I do believe in membership in the local independent church governed by a plurality of spiritual elders as the plan through which the Holy Ghost works into the individual's life.

Take care, bro.

380 posted on 07/12/2015 5:12:49 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 271 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 581-598 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson