Posted on 08/10/2015 9:34:09 AM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
When the Rapture of the Church finally takes place - in which Almighty God the Son calls out His body (saints and ambassadors) - it (The Rapture) will be a wondrous sign unto the apostate western world more so than a sign unto the whole world. For all had better be prepared, for Almighty God's "Day of Wrath" is now at hand (2 Thess. 2:3-12)!
The official commencement of this horrific seven year period will be the breaking of the 1st seal (i.e., the "Confirming of the Covenant" - Dan. 9:27) by Almighty God’s Lamb (i.e., The Lord Jesus Christ) in Heaven (Rev. 6:1). It is at this precise moment that the man of lawlessness (i.e., the anti-Christ) will be revealed unto the entire world (Dan. 9:27, 2 Thess. 2: 3-12). This revealing of the Anti-Christ and the commencement of this seven year tribulation period will begin when this man (i.e., the Prince which is to come) adds his human position of great power and authority to a covenant against Israel with an abundance of peoples and nations (Ezek. 38:8,11-12, Dan. 9: 27).
(Excerpt) Read more at theignorantfishermen.com ...
Agreed but one has to have an outlet ;/
“If the Holy Spirit is the restrainer, then your reading of v.3 contracts v.7.”
Verses 1-3 plainly state that the regathering can’t happen before the man of sin is revealed. So what you are saying amounts to: “If my reading of verse 7 is correct, then the Bible contradicts itself”, which can’t be true.
“2 Thess 2:1-3 is reassuring believers and warning them not to be deceived by recognizing that the end isn’t here yet and not to be afraid. Verse 3 explains that the first sign of the end is the falling away and the appearance of this man of sin.”
Indeed, that is correct, and those things are signs that they did not miss the return of Christ, because they both must happen before Christ returns, and before we are gathered to Him.
“That is consistent with the rest of the chapter and the rest of the applicable parts of the Bible, mainly Matt 24 and Revelation.”
Yes, but it’s not consistent with the notion of a pre-trib rapture.
“You’re right. No one has been asking for protection from identity theft.”
Smart cards are unproven to prevent identity theft. A lost or stolen Credit Card can be replaced without a chip.
In fact, mobile card reading devices created by thieves possibly makes stealing your card information easier.
In addition to this, in exchange for quelling the fear of possible identity theft the consumer is at risk of something else. The consumer sacrifices their privacy as your physical identity and where you are at all the times can be tracked by these so called ‘smart cards’.
“...So are smart cards good news for travelers? Not necessarily.
One issue with ICCs is the lack of privacy. Chipped cards have the same wireless communication ability as cellphones. They continuously broadcast their location to your bank or other issuing organization, even when you aren’t using your card. You can remove the battery on a cellphone to turn off the broadcast, but not a smart card.
This means even if a cardholder goes into Trader Joe’s and pays with cash, not check or credit card, their bank still knows where they went. The card in their purse or wallet tells it so....”
http://www.redding.com/lifestyle/bon-voyage-the-pros-and-cons-of-microchips-in
Read all about it...
Enoch
Book 1
Chapter 1
1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.
Cross reference with The Parable of the Tares
Notice: There is no seven year time period in the Book of Revelation
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
To show His servants—things which must shortly take place...
Revelation 4, 4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
I will show you things which must take place after this.
Note: Yeshua is in heaven and John is on Patmos
Revelation 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
42 months = 3 and a half years
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
42 (months) x 30 (days) = 1260= three and a half (lunar) years
Revelation 11:9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.
יָמִים Translated as 'days' but is also translated years elsewhere
Revelation 11:11 [ The Witnesses Resurrected ] Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
Revelation 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
Revelation 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Daniel 9: 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
Yeshua put an end to the sacrifice, It is finished!
Passover 3790 is the middle of a shmita cycle (seven) 30 CE
Read all about it...
Why Didn’t the Red Ribbon on the Head of the Scapegoat Turn White in 30 C.E.?
Clip:
The Talmud relates, however, that 40 years before the destruction of the Second Temple the scarlet colored strip of wool did not turn white. The text of the Talmud which missionaries quote states,
The Rabbis taught that forty years prior to the destruction of the Temple the lot did not come up in the [high priest’s] right hand nor did the tongue of scarlet wool become white…
(Talmud, Tractate Yoma 39b)
http://outreachjudaism.org/yomkippur/
Next up, the A-C
The Ruler / Anti-Christ
The fourth kingdom
Daniel 7, 8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Revelation 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
The ten nations are listed in Psalm 83. The king in Daniel 7:24 is the ruler/anti-Christ and after he rises three kings are uprooted.
Muammur Kaddafi was the third king uprooted, the other two, Hosni Mubarak and Saddam Hussein. And uprooted is the perfect word as these three had nearly 100 years of combined rule in the M.E. No small feat indeed.
Now, who arose in the M.E. before Saddam Hussein was uprooted?
Daniel 8, 23 ‘In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
The fierce-looking king stands up
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/274302.stm
Google 'Amman seven mountains' for more fun.
There's Lot's more on this guy...
And the false prophet is Mohammad
Having been warned by God about what is going to take place; No one in their right mind would want to be here to endure what Almighty God is surely about to unleash upon the entire earth and world of unbelievers, Satan, the Antichrist and his "false prophet". MARANATHA!
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” v.3
“For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” v.7-8
V.3 addresses how to tell when that day has arrived and v.7-8 further explains v.3 by detailing that those events will happen after we’re gone.
We’re focused on a relatively minor issue IMO, except for the running theme of knowing the times and the seasons, but looking to Jesus and not wasting our time trying to figure out who this man of sin is. Jesus wants to shine through us as we behold Him so others will come to Him.
Having said all that, I’m curious why you think the withholding of the revelation of this evil man until we’re gone is not consistent with the notion of a pre-trib rapture? As far as the rapture or the great catching up goes, what does it matter if the Bad Guy is revealed before or after we’re outta here?
Yes, and I pray as we behold Jesus in His glory, we will be changed into the same image from glory to glory and others will come to the light of the knowledge of God in Jesus Christ that they see in us, before it all comes crashing down.
God bless.
We started to become a cashless society when the dollar bill, a paper marker, fiat money, was used to signify possession of the underlying noble or quasi-noble metallic tangible reserves.
Everyone is missing the point. The 666 has nothing to do with a (or the) (hu)man's name. Rather, it is a numeral representing a numbering system devised out of the alphabet of a human language. And John was speaking of the Roman numeral system which, unlike the Arabic decimal system, cannot be used to add, subtract, multiply, or divide quantities.
The Roman numbering system consists of the Roman letters D, C, L, X, V, and I used as numerals, which is DCLXVI, or in Arabic numerals 666 -- six hundred sixty six.
One eminent quantity now usd globally is the United States Dollar (USD). upon which in the base of the "All-seeing Eye" pyramid on the reverse of the bill is printed "MDCCLXXVI" which is "1776" reminding everyone of the date of the formation of the association of independent states to form a new nation, functionally acting but not yet titled "The United States" when it validated a Constitution of its existence. That numeral contains all the elements of the Roman numeral system except that which represents the next one after 999.
That mark of the Beast is the dollar bill, without which it is very difficult to lawfully pursue commerce within the nation, and which has been established as the standard for other nations to calculate currency exchange rates.
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his its numbereral is Six hundred threescore and six" (Rev. 13:18 AV a bit revised), in Koine χξς and in Arabic 666. The correct interpretation is "human-conceived system of categorizing quantities."
All along since the time of Augustus, the Roman-type Western governments, culminated in the U. S. A.--another society based on Roman law--have determined the standard against which goods and services have been exchanged.
Anyone with half a brain not overcome by false theological notions could have figured that out, and that it is currently the USD = $.
“V.3 addresses how to tell when that day has arrived and v.7-8 further explains v.3 by detailing that those events will happen after we’re gone.”
I can’t agree on the second part of your statement, because those verses say nothing about us being “gone”, unless you do some heavy interpolation to the text. We know something restrains the evil one, until a certain time, when that restraint is removed. Anything more than that, I have to classify as reading into the verse what you want it to say, because the verse itself isn’t specific enough to support any of those claims.
“We’re focused on a relatively minor issue IMO, except for the running theme of knowing the times and the seasons, but looking to Jesus and not wasting our time trying to figure out who this man of sin is.”
Well, I’ll agree that it is minor compared to spreading the gospel and living a life that is right with God. Compared to those things, these are relatively minor matters. However, I think their is a good chance people alive today will see these times come, so, in that respect, they may be of immediate importance to us. Basically, we don’t want to wait until after these things start to happen before we start thumbing through Revelation and trying to figure out if there is anything we need to be ready for :)
“Having said all that, I’m curious why you think the withholding of the revelation of this evil man until we’re gone is not consistent with the notion of a pre-trib rapture?”
I say this because verse one sets the topic, and tells us it is concerning the second coming, and our being gathered to Christ. Verse two further specifies this is the “day of Christ” that Paul is talking about. Then, in verse three, Paul says “that day” cannot come before the revelation. That means that not only will Christ’s second coming not happen before the revelation, but our being gathered to Christ cannot precede the event either.
Now, there is a common argument from the pre-trib side about how to reconcile the post-tribulation “first resurrection” described in Revelation with a pre-trib “rapture” (and also used to reconcile other NT verses that place the second coming after the tribulation). They claim that the “rapture” is not really a “coming” of Christ, because he doesn’t “set foot on the ground”, so it doesn’t count. Well, these three verses from Paul not only say that the gathering happens on the same day as Christ’s coming, but they also deny that either the gathering or the coming will precede the appearance of the beast, “anti-Christ”, man of perdition, call him what you will.
It gets even worse if you continue to verses 7-8, because those verses testify that not only will the wicked one be revealed before these events happen, but that he will be destroyed at Christ’s coming. So that covers the entirety of the tribulation narrative in Revelation. In just a few short verses, Paul has not only ruled out a pre-trib rapture, but even a mid-trib rapture in irreconcilable.
OK, I thought I was talking to someone who believed the Church would be taken up before the seven-year tribulation.
That is my premise. If you don’t believe that, then we’re definitely not on the same page.
Correct
I can’t believe that, when the Bible clearly rules out the possibility.
The falling away is what I'm observing when we see a world aborting babies and experimenting on their dead bodies. We see a world turning toward gay marriage and trannies in the military. We see a world where even young Christians are considered enthusiastic but very lacking in knowledge. People calling themselves Christians are completely clueless as to what the bible says or means or who God is. They are easily deceived into supporting the first gay person they meet who seems like a nice person. "Why shouldn't those guys be able to get married?".
“Clearly” isn’t the right word, my FRiend since many who have studied the Bible like I have for almost 50 years see Scripture pointing to Jesus taking us out like God did “in the days of Noah” before all hell breaks loose.
Many who think God wants them to go through even the first half of the tribulation seem to have little realization about what they want to sign up for.
Here’s a taste...
Right off the bat there’s war, nukes, famine and 1/4 of earth’s population (maybe two to three billion) is killed (Rev 6:1-8).
If you survive that, before you know it flying demons that sting like scorpions will swarm the earth stinging and scaring the h*ll out of everyone followed by another swarm of 200 million who will kill 1/3 of earth’s population. Before you know it, HALF (1/4 + 1/3) of the world is DEAD. (Rev 9:1-19).
That’s just the first half. The second half is even worse with the the rest of the world being killed except for a remnant of Israel who are hiding (most likely in Petra).
You don’t want to be there for that and neither does Jesus. It is the time of His wrath on the nonbelievers. If you have accepted Jesus, by grace God’s wrath for your sins has already been executed on Jesus. God is not unjust to judge the same sin twice.
We’ll be watching from the mezzanine Bro, just like John did.
This argument that the tribulation will be full of hardship and calamity, so we shouldn’t “want” to go through it is not a scriptural argument, it’s an emotional argument, so it carries no weight with me.
Also, the tribulation is also NOT God’s wrath on unbelievers. The tribulation is Satan’s last persecution of believers before Christ’s return:
“12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.”
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Here we see that it is the dragon, Satan, who is doing the persecuting, and it is his wrath, not God’s, which is directed as Christians during 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period. These verses also show that God protects us during this time.
God’s wrath does not come to the world until the very end of the tribulation, for it is when signs appear in the heavens, at the sixth seal, just before Christ’s return, that the world realizes God’s wrath is imminent:
“12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
This is the first appearance of the word “wrath” in the tribulation narrative in Revelation, and the signs that accompany the sixth seal are the same signs that Christ spoke of on the Mount of Olives when asked what the signs would be of his return:
Rev. 6:12 - Sun is darkened, Matthew 24:29 - Sun is darkened
Rev. 6:12 - Moon turns to blood, Matthew 24:29 - Moon will not give forth her light
Rev. 6:13 - Stars fall from heaven like figs shaken from a tree, Matthew 24:29 - the powers of heaven are shaken
Rev. 6:14 - The heavens “depart like a scroll”, Matthew 24:30 - A sign appears in the heavens
Rev. 6:15-17 - All the kings and great men of the earth try to hide themselves from the coming of the lamb, which they fear, Matthew 24:30 - All the tribes of the earth mourn the coming of the Son of Man
Matthew 24 makes it clear, explicitly, that these things happen after the tribulation. The verses in Rev. 6 are parallel and testify that God’s wrath has not arrived before that point, which is at the end of the tribulation.
If you think the sixth seal is not until the very end of the tribulation, you’re not reading the Revelation timeline very well. If you think half the world being killed by nukes, famine and hoards of demons flying around stinging and killing people all happens “at the very end of the tribulation” (your words) BEFORE all the trumpets sound and all the vials are poured out and Armageddon happens, you’ve got a real problem with timeline reality my FRiend.
The tribulation IS the day of God’s wrath, but I don’t want to rehash this argument with yet another mid-trib/post-trib type. I wouldn’t have engaged you at all if I’d known that. I thought you were a pre-trib type.
“If you think the sixth seal is not until the very end of the tribulation, you’re not reading the Revelation timeline very well.”
Seeing as the signs are parallel to the signs in Matthew 24, which are specificly, explicitly stated by Jesus Christ himself to be after the tribulation, I think I am on pretty secure footing.
Any other reading requires all those signs to be doubled, so they could occur at two different times. So we’d need two darkenings of the sun and moon, two episodes of signs in the heavens witnessed by the entire world, and of course, most troubling, two second comings of Jesus.
“If you think half the world being killed by nukes, famine and hoards of demons flying around stinging and killing people all happens “at the very end of the tribulation” (your words) BEFORE all the trumpets sound and all the vials are poured out and Armageddon happens, you’ve got a real problem with timeline reality my FRiend.”
I’ve never said those things happen “BEFORE all the trumpets sound and all the vials are poured out and Armageddon happens”. You just have a conception in your mind that the tribulation extends to include all those events, but the tribulation ends when Christ returns, and that happens at the sixth seal, as Revelation 6 attests. Therefore, all the trumpets and bowls/vials happen after the tribulation.
“The tribulation IS the day of God’s wrath...”
No, it isn’t, or God would have called it the “great wrath” instead of the “great tribulation”. Besides, the day of God’s wrath is just that, a day, also known as the “day of the Lord”. It’s an unusual day, in that the sun and moon are darkened, but it’s certainly not a seven-year long period like the great tribulation.
The whole idea that the tribulation is “God’s wrath” is also self-contradictory. Christ is the one who renders God’s wrath on the world, yet pre-tribbers claim he is rapturing believers and preparing the wedding feast during that time, not down on earth dispensing vengeance. You can’t insist the tribulation is God’s wrath if you are also insisting the instrument of God’s wrath is not around on earth to dispense it.
You are misreading both Revelation and Matthew 24 and your parallels are faulty.
As I said, not interested because your mind is set.
I’ll see you in the mezzanine.
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