Posted on 09/23/2015 6:35:02 AM PDT by Salvation
In addition to being the Pope we need to remember that he is also the head of the Vatican state.
Also, I don’t think any of you have considered how much fun a PapaFran v. Trump encounter would be.
Quote-why do we then need a Pope?
Because without a Pope, we wouldn’t have the Gregorian calendar that the world uses(named after a Pope- Pope Gregory)
Would the world use the Scriptural calendar instead? We have Daniel 7:25 for a reason..
He didn’t pooh-pooh the book.
The idea of succession is at least coeval with the book, if not prior to it.
Even though there is a pope everyone who is saved is saved through Jesus. I don’t think the Pope saves.
If no one is pope, everyone must appeal directly to Jesus Christ for their salvation, for “... there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Act 4:12)
Your reply:
Even though there is a pope everyone who is saved is saved through Jesus.
Question: So to be saved, I don't have to appeal to Rome?
Futhermore, you said:
I don’t think the Pope saves.
Does that mean:
It is probably a problem for God as well. A small one though. From what I've read 100% of Catholic institutions are not 100% in agreement with 100% of what other Catholic agencies do 100% of the time. This suggests there is some disunity in the Catholic organization itself. As far as the title of this thread is "If no one is Pope, everyone is Pope" then I think the Bible teaches everyone should be convinced in their own mind. I am responsible for my soul the same as you are. God left us a Book to direct which direction to choose in life (along with the Holy Spirit). Peace be with you.
I think wonderful things come to those "in full communion with the Holy See," including awesome theological guidance. For me, the sacraments are inexpressibly great aids. But, for reasons I can't quite understand, God does not clear his gift giving through my office, and I have seen graces in unexpected places and among people who found themselves quite astonished to be holding hands and praying with me in public places.
Again, I've been in full communion for almost 21 years. I have sometimes been shocked at false teaching, distressed by shoddy practice, outraged by what felt like personal betrayal.
Nevertheless, I have had wonderful relationships with holy people (who, incidentally were very clear in private and in public about the centrality of a personal relationship with Jesus) who have helped me and sometimes have let me help them in our shared walk toward the Jordan and the golden city beyond. Not a one of these folks -- and they include "provincial" (that's like 1/3 of the lower 48) priors and other "superiors" as well as folks in the trenches -- have ever suggested anything like "an appeal to Rome" as a remedy or necessity.
If you and I were kicking back and enjoying a cold beverage while the steaks grilled, and if you asked me for my spearchool advice,
I'd ask how you and Jesus were getting along. I'd how you were doing on believing down to your marrow that your sins were as a molecule of carbon to the great ocean of Love which has its source in the trickle from the right side of the temple.
Then, if you were to ask MOI, I'd talk about how the sacraments (including "confession")and various Catholic-type-stuff work in my life and seem to help bear me along in the river on whose banks are beautiful trees with fruit good to eat and leaves good for healing, the river that makes even my salt tears sweet and fresh.
And if you didn't start making the sign against the evil eye (kidding), at some point I'd say, "Come and see." But I'd add, "Don't be put off by the thicket of thorns -- thorns of idiocy and works-righteousness and superstition. On the other side is a tall castle with beauty and joy in it."
I have held back nothing from you and been candid. At least be gentle, please.
Mad Dawg,
Thank you for your winsome honesty. I understand your original reply more fully.
Grace and Peace,
K51
“We welcome someone whom the Lord prays for in a very special manner”
No more than anybody else. No more than any precious child
In fact he wont stand up for the unborn and he wont condemn teaching children that homosexuality is a option for them.
The Pope should be on his knees asking for God`s mercy
But I'm not sure how unanimity bears on the discussion. I don't look to the bishops in German for my "direction." My bishop (Richmond, VA) gets my attention and I run what he says by what the pope says.
But even then, While I listen respectfully when PapaFran talks about the environment, I am not docile there and have no duty to be docile in such things. I will, so to speak, check my work. I will consul with respected peers and "superiors." But PapaFran is not an environmental scientist and he himself admitted he's no economist.
I would say that in my experience, it's RARE that anyone says, "You HAVE to think this." The closest is people saying, "I think that you should be ASKING and wondering about this." So, yes, at every step, the decision is my responsibility.
It just this minute occurred to me that a lot of people, a lot of Catholics, want their religious life given to them like a pill from the pharmacy. It's hard to help such people, except to say that Jesus is the Truth, that means the Truth is a person, and the only way to get to know a person is in relationship. Answers won't do it.
There has been a Christian revival for years, and outside of the Charismatic Catholic movement, the Catholic Church has totally missed out on it. Before this is mistaken for Catholic bashing, this is true of the mainline Churches in general.
The real Christian Churches have no divisions on belief, no nonsense such as it`s ok to be pro choice or for gay marriage etc.
The Pope will have no altar call because he dopes not know what one is, If Billy or Franklin Graham had a audience like this, they would offer a altar call , thousands upon thousands would invite Jesus into their life, there would be no mention of climate change etc
They would all be told they are sinners (I am a sinner saved by grace) they would be told that they will have to repent from the homosexual lifestyle, they will have to walk away from those unholy relationships completely.
Nobody is going to be saved from the Popes message (me thinks) but if it was Franklin Graham people would be on their knees and be overcome by the Holy Spirit
This is so tragic
Wrong. There is only one Father, and His Name is not francis.
"Special" isn't a word about quantity. It's about "kind" or "sort," not about how much. So nobody's saying anything about whether Peter or PapaFran gets "more" of IHS's intercessory prayers.
I don't know about the world or even the nation as a whole. But wow is that ever NOT the experience I've had or observed. In fact there's kind of a problem as people ranging from my degree of senility down to college age are coming in and acting like they actually love Jesus and believe this stuff. The piety of crocheted doilies and "Oh, Father, PLEASE, Father," is being shoved aside by people yelling "OORAH! Which way to the front?"
By the way, my dear Uppercrust, your handle is da BOMB!
And every Catholic agrees 100% lockstep with every other Catholic on the planet and there's no difference between any of the Catholic rites, like the EO teachings on the papacy and Mary.
Correct?
False premise.
Of course including the JWs is a red herring as they have changed the content of the Bible they claim as theirs.
But the interesting thing here is how FRoman Catholics claim to cling to the Pope, and yet they revile Frank for his Socialist, progressive leanings. If a system that requires a Pope is so important, why is contempt of the Pope by FRoman Catholics tolerated by FRoman Catholics? Sounds like many Catholics are really their own Pope, IOW more Catholic than Frank..
I believe if you do any kind of a search google/whatever, with the term something like “Non Denominational Christian Churches continue to grow while the main stream churches decline”
Same thing will come up if you insert “Evangelical Bible Churches...”
, White Pentecostal Churches continue to grow. BTW I ONLY SAID WHITE PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES, because the all black pentecostal churches are a different situation altogether
White Pentecostal sounds awful (poor choice of words) but have to say that because the ALL black pentecostal Church in America has embraced a whole host of anti Christian stuff.
The “white” Pentecostal Church includes black Christians that have broken away from the anti Christian all black church
What I said and how I said it was not PC but correct
If I understood you correctly I do not challenge what you are saying, just not what I have been hearing.
Now the Charismatic movement in the Catholic Church is growing and they are basically in line with Non denominational Christians, would fit in nicely at a Franklin Graham rally , at least the ones I know.
Some of them are still a little bit to wrapped up in Catholicism as aposed to Christianity,but are being filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit in some cases, speaking in tongues even
You and I think the JWs have monkeyed with the text. But that judgement has to go beyond Scriptire for its adjudication. And in any case THEY don’t think they monkeyed with it. How do we appraoch them on that?
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