Posted on 09/23/2015 6:35:02 AM PDT by Salvation
Today we welcome Pope Francis to the United States. In so doing, we welcome more than just a popular public figure. We welcome someone whom the Lord prays for in a very special manner. Simon Peter and his successors enjoy a special charism to unite us, by the Lord’s prayer and grace. Let’s look at the scriptural foundation of this prayer and charism and see how essential the office of the pope is for us.
One day, near the final ascent to Jerusalem, the Lord warned of a fundamental problem that the Church would face: disunity. He turned to Simon Peter and said of the Twelve,
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you all that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers (Luke 22:31-32).
To “sift like wheat” is to divide, and Satan would work hard at it in order to divide the apostles, and the Church with them. The debate about who was the greatest only served to show what a mess we human beings, when left to our own devices, will make of something.
Yes, Jesus plainly says that the devil is going to work hard to divide you. And Jesus’ plan is not to write a book and then just hope that everyone follows it and interprets it in the same way. His plan is not to pray that they all work out their differences.
Jesus’ plan is to pray for one man, Simon Peter. Now Peter is not invisible, nor do his words require interpretation. For if anyone wants to ask, “What do you mean by this?” he can just go right up to Peter and say, “Peter, what do you mean by this?” And the real Peter can answer.
So, the Lord’s plan for unity is to have one visible man; one living, breathing source of unity. The Lord will pray for him; thus we can be assured of right outcomes in matters of faith and morals if we follow Peter (and his successors, the popes) in matters that might divide us.
Peter fulfilled this task of unity well and consistently, as recounted in the Acts of the Apostles, the history of the early Church. He rose to settle the question of Judas’ successor (Acts 1:15ff). He preached the first public sermon (Acts 2). He was inspired in a dream and then baptized the first Gentile converts (Acts 10). He arose at the Council of Jerusalem to settle the dispute between the “Party of James” and Paul, Barnabas, and others about Gentile converts (Acts 15).
Yes, Peter strengthened and unified the brethren. This does not mean that he did so without sin. On one occasion St. Paul even had to rebuke Peter (cf Gal 2). For though Peter had taught correctly (that Gentiles were in without lots of customary Jewish observances), he did not fully live the teaching, drawing back from close association with the Gentiles in order to avoid offending Jewish Christians. We do not argue that Peter and his successors are sinless, only that in solemnly teaching on faith and morals they enjoy the prayer of the Lord and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, never to teach error and thus unite us in the truth.
Peter’s successors must unite us. Though they are not sinless men, we trust in God’s protection for their solemn teachings and thus preserve union through the prayers of the Lord for Peter.
And boy do we need it! We Catholics are a difficult lot. Shepherding Catholics is harder than herding cats. But thanks be to God for the Lord’s Prayer and for the Holy Spirit. If it were not for these, the Church wouldn’t have lasted twenty minutes! But here we are more than two thousand years later, not without our troubles and tensions, but here and fundamentally united (with legitimate diversity). There is just no other way to describe the fundamental unity of the Catholic Church for all these years than as a miracle.
Compare this to the Protestant denominations, which severed their ties to Simon Peter and have now divided and subdivided some thirty thousand times—sifted like wheat to say the least. And the divisions are not just about minor things like vestments or the type of music. The differences are about fundamental and essential doctrines such as how one is saved, if once saved means always saved, if Baptism is necessary, if adultery is grounds for divorce, whether homosexual acts are sinful, if abortion is wrong, whether there is a priesthood, and how critical texts of the Bible are to be understood. The moral and doctrinal divisions are deep and concern foundational matters related to salvation. So divided is Protestantism that many Evangelicals have more in common with Catholics (on the moral issues) than with the old, mainline Protestants.
The tragic disunity of Christendom is not entirely the fault of the Protestants. We Catholics contributed to breaks that happened in the 12th century (with the Orthodox) and the 16th century (with the Protestants).
But the disunity among Protestants does put to the lie that people can be united by a book or by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (apart from the authentic discernment of the Church’s magisterium).
The simple fact is that we have to have a pope. And if no one is pope, everyone is pope. Some may be dismissive of the need for “some pope” to tell them what to think. But truth be told, by not acknowledging some visible authority outside their own mind, they are merely appointing themselves as pope of their own little “denomination of one.”
The pope is not possessed of unlimited power. He is the Servant of Divine Revelation, not its source. He cannot overrule dogmatically defined faith that comes from Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Neither does he micromanage every aspect of Church life. But in service of the Lord’s prayer and vision, Simon Peter and his successors strengthen and unite us by working with the bishops to resolve significant matters that arise in the Church in terms of discipline and the understanding of doctrine.
But without him, we are trouble, serious trouble—trouble times thirty thousand!
In welcoming Pope Francis, we welcome the visible source of our unity. It is not merely that Jorge Bergoglio is a good negotiator. Whatever personal skills he may have, our faith lies not in those skills but in the prayer of the Lord Jesus for him to strengthen and unify us. Unity is not always easy. To accept the leadership of another is, frankly, hard. But the unity the Lord intends us to have with Simon Peter is a lot easier than the endless divisions we create on our own, apart from the Lord’s Prayer for Peter.
Welcome Pope Francis today and pray for unity among all Catholics and Christians. We may have minor differences and even a few hurtful ones, but thank God we don’t have thirty thousand differences!
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In addition to being the Pope we need to remember that he is also the head of the Vatican state.
Also, I don’t think any of you have considered how much fun a PapaFran v. Trump encounter would be.
Quote-why do we then need a Pope?
Because without a Pope, we wouldn’t have the Gregorian calendar that the world uses(named after a Pope- Pope Gregory)
Would the world use the Scriptural calendar instead? We have Daniel 7:25 for a reason..
He didn’t pooh-pooh the book.
The idea of succession is at least coeval with the book, if not prior to it.
Even though there is a pope everyone who is saved is saved through Jesus. I don’t think the Pope saves.
If no one is pope, everyone must appeal directly to Jesus Christ for their salvation, for “... there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Act 4:12)
Your reply:
Even though there is a pope everyone who is saved is saved through Jesus.
Question: So to be saved, I don't have to appeal to Rome?
Futhermore, you said:
I don’t think the Pope saves.
Does that mean:
It is probably a problem for God as well. A small one though. From what I've read 100% of Catholic institutions are not 100% in agreement with 100% of what other Catholic agencies do 100% of the time. This suggests there is some disunity in the Catholic organization itself. As far as the title of this thread is "If no one is Pope, everyone is Pope" then I think the Bible teaches everyone should be convinced in their own mind. I am responsible for my soul the same as you are. God left us a Book to direct which direction to choose in life (along with the Holy Spirit). Peace be with you.
I think wonderful things come to those "in full communion with the Holy See," including awesome theological guidance. For me, the sacraments are inexpressibly great aids. But, for reasons I can't quite understand, God does not clear his gift giving through my office, and I have seen graces in unexpected places and among people who found themselves quite astonished to be holding hands and praying with me in public places.
Again, I've been in full communion for almost 21 years. I have sometimes been shocked at false teaching, distressed by shoddy practice, outraged by what felt like personal betrayal.
Nevertheless, I have had wonderful relationships with holy people (who, incidentally were very clear in private and in public about the centrality of a personal relationship with Jesus) who have helped me and sometimes have let me help them in our shared walk toward the Jordan and the golden city beyond. Not a one of these folks -- and they include "provincial" (that's like 1/3 of the lower 48) priors and other "superiors" as well as folks in the trenches -- have ever suggested anything like "an appeal to Rome" as a remedy or necessity.
If you and I were kicking back and enjoying a cold beverage while the steaks grilled, and if you asked me for my spearchool advice,
I'd ask how you and Jesus were getting along. I'd how you were doing on believing down to your marrow that your sins were as a molecule of carbon to the great ocean of Love which has its source in the trickle from the right side of the temple.
Then, if you were to ask MOI, I'd talk about how the sacraments (including "confession")and various Catholic-type-stuff work in my life and seem to help bear me along in the river on whose banks are beautiful trees with fruit good to eat and leaves good for healing, the river that makes even my salt tears sweet and fresh.
And if you didn't start making the sign against the evil eye (kidding), at some point I'd say, "Come and see." But I'd add, "Don't be put off by the thicket of thorns -- thorns of idiocy and works-righteousness and superstition. On the other side is a tall castle with beauty and joy in it."
I have held back nothing from you and been candid. At least be gentle, please.
Mad Dawg,
Thank you for your winsome honesty. I understand your original reply more fully.
Grace and Peace,
K51
“We welcome someone whom the Lord prays for in a very special manner”
No more than anybody else. No more than any precious child
In fact he wont stand up for the unborn and he wont condemn teaching children that homosexuality is a option for them.
The Pope should be on his knees asking for God`s mercy
But I'm not sure how unanimity bears on the discussion. I don't look to the bishops in German for my "direction." My bishop (Richmond, VA) gets my attention and I run what he says by what the pope says.
But even then, While I listen respectfully when PapaFran talks about the environment, I am not docile there and have no duty to be docile in such things. I will, so to speak, check my work. I will consul with respected peers and "superiors." But PapaFran is not an environmental scientist and he himself admitted he's no economist.
I would say that in my experience, it's RARE that anyone says, "You HAVE to think this." The closest is people saying, "I think that you should be ASKING and wondering about this." So, yes, at every step, the decision is my responsibility.
It just this minute occurred to me that a lot of people, a lot of Catholics, want their religious life given to them like a pill from the pharmacy. It's hard to help such people, except to say that Jesus is the Truth, that means the Truth is a person, and the only way to get to know a person is in relationship. Answers won't do it.
There has been a Christian revival for years, and outside of the Charismatic Catholic movement, the Catholic Church has totally missed out on it. Before this is mistaken for Catholic bashing, this is true of the mainline Churches in general.
The real Christian Churches have no divisions on belief, no nonsense such as it`s ok to be pro choice or for gay marriage etc.
The Pope will have no altar call because he dopes not know what one is, If Billy or Franklin Graham had a audience like this, they would offer a altar call , thousands upon thousands would invite Jesus into their life, there would be no mention of climate change etc
They would all be told they are sinners (I am a sinner saved by grace) they would be told that they will have to repent from the homosexual lifestyle, they will have to walk away from those unholy relationships completely.
Nobody is going to be saved from the Popes message (me thinks) but if it was Franklin Graham people would be on their knees and be overcome by the Holy Spirit
This is so tragic
Wrong. There is only one Father, and His Name is not francis.
"Special" isn't a word about quantity. It's about "kind" or "sort," not about how much. So nobody's saying anything about whether Peter or PapaFran gets "more" of IHS's intercessory prayers.
I don't know about the world or even the nation as a whole. But wow is that ever NOT the experience I've had or observed. In fact there's kind of a problem as people ranging from my degree of senility down to college age are coming in and acting like they actually love Jesus and believe this stuff. The piety of crocheted doilies and "Oh, Father, PLEASE, Father," is being shoved aside by people yelling "OORAH! Which way to the front?"
By the way, my dear Uppercrust, your handle is da BOMB!
And every Catholic agrees 100% lockstep with every other Catholic on the planet and there's no difference between any of the Catholic rites, like the EO teachings on the papacy and Mary.
Correct?
False premise.
Of course including the JWs is a red herring as they have changed the content of the Bible they claim as theirs.
But the interesting thing here is how FRoman Catholics claim to cling to the Pope, and yet they revile Frank for his Socialist, progressive leanings. If a system that requires a Pope is so important, why is contempt of the Pope by FRoman Catholics tolerated by FRoman Catholics? Sounds like many Catholics are really their own Pope, IOW more Catholic than Frank..
I believe if you do any kind of a search google/whatever, with the term something like “Non Denominational Christian Churches continue to grow while the main stream churches decline”
Same thing will come up if you insert “Evangelical Bible Churches...”
, White Pentecostal Churches continue to grow. BTW I ONLY SAID WHITE PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES, because the all black pentecostal churches are a different situation altogether
White Pentecostal sounds awful (poor choice of words) but have to say that because the ALL black pentecostal Church in America has embraced a whole host of anti Christian stuff.
The “white” Pentecostal Church includes black Christians that have broken away from the anti Christian all black church
What I said and how I said it was not PC but correct
If I understood you correctly I do not challenge what you are saying, just not what I have been hearing.
Now the Charismatic movement in the Catholic Church is growing and they are basically in line with Non denominational Christians, would fit in nicely at a Franklin Graham rally , at least the ones I know.
Some of them are still a little bit to wrapped up in Catholicism as aposed to Christianity,but are being filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit in some cases, speaking in tongues even
You and I think the JWs have monkeyed with the text. But that judgement has to go beyond Scriptire for its adjudication. And in any case THEY don’t think they monkeyed with it. How do we appraoch them on that?
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