Posted on 09/23/2015 6:35:02 AM PDT by Salvation
Not biting. If you want to make a statement in aid of an argument, leading questions won’t do it.
Because their text didn’t exist until 1961 and is in direct conflict with every other translation out there.
Joel Osteen , heck that`s Oprah Winfrey`s Church, gay people attend there because he does not mention sin
Not sure if you meant this, but you had Billy Graham and Swaggert and Baptists lumped in with JW`s (a cult) and Joel Osteen (I believe a cult) and you had Baptists included as well
Sorry if I missed your point, I am a non denominational Christian, I dont need another title, not ever been a Baptist but have been to a number in my life, and a Baptist Church for the most part in my experience would not fit into THE MAIN LINE CHURCH TITLE
Baptists in my experience would fit better into the group of Churches outside of mainline , would be more along the lines of a good white pentecostal church , forgive the term “white” has to be said to differentiate from the ALL BLACK Pentecostal Church, the “White” Pentecostal Church has many blacks that have broken away from the ALL Black anti Christian Church
A person can be saved in their bathroom or in their bedroom with a Bible or just a sinners prayer, one does not have to attend any church to be saved.
Nor can Two Billion Roman Catholics!
Amen!
If Mr. Pope is “Protestant-bashing”, is posting a thread with it ALSO Protestant-bashing??? Hmmmmmm.
If he ever gets the gig, would he be Pope Chuck Pope??? ;)
Very Good Article, Again Msgr. Charles Pope.
My point,and I do have one, was that all these groups differ from one another, whether plausibly or not. They all, as separate groups, claim to be righter enough than ... and different enough from other groups as well as from us feelthy papists to excuse spending money on a congregational leader, whether homegrown and home certified or imported and appellation controlée.
So they have no pope, but they have their conventions or councils or synods, and they make decisions about the interpretation of Scripture on matters of faith and morals down to the doctrine of the Trinity and the ontological possibility of "same sex marriage." They have a "pope surrogate," something that functions, more or less, as the arbiter of teaching and practice.
As I already said, individuals in any of those groups are more or less compliant with the official program. That there is ubiquitous disobedience in the Catholic church doesn't show a multitude of popes any more than a drinking and fornicating Baptist deacon shows a congregational division (or a child-molesting JW indicates schism at the watchtower.)
As regards Baptists, I would love to know the role, formal and actual, that "conventions" play.
This was for clarification, not to urge any point.
SOME Roman Catholics revile .... what you said.
Those of us who not only can but do read and who can tell the difference between “capitalism” and “unfettered capitalism” and who don’t get our news of the pope from Rush OR NPR do not revile him.
Pelosi is not the only self-deceiving bozo or bozette who calls himself Catholic. There are plenty out there who haven’t even tried to read, say, the social encyclicals but are eager to tell us what they say.
And much as I love Rush, he really doesn’t get Catholicism. On Monday he said something quite untrue about disagreement with the Pope.
What premise is false?
The Pope is often on his knees asking for God’s mercy. Like at every Mass, probably at Compline, and when he goes to confession.
John 21:17(rsv)
“He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.”
Now who believe in literal interpretation? For if one does then this means to give them food to eat. But that is Not what the Lord meant. It meant to Teach them... Give them his words and Guide them on their Journey back to the Lord. Well this to points to the thing you are also defining... Some are teachers and some are not...(Authority)
There can be ONLY One Truth period! If you disagree with this show it to me in the bible where there are multiple Truths...
Now once you admit that to your self your next goal is to figure out Where that Truth can be found? If its inside of you how can that be so for you are a sinner right? Can it be bubba down the Street? I Do not think so because my guess is he is not a successor of Peter. The last choice is... The successor of Peter, The Pope. (Yes he is a Sinner also, but one That is Guided by the Holy Spirit more so than you or I)
I Pray for those on their Journey back to Our Lord, May their Eyes be Open and their Ears be Cleared...
Even though things may look totally Dark, I Still Believe in the words of our Lord!
“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18(rsv)
I believe we are at those times... But... Hell will Not Prevail!
I also worry about Pope Francis for I do believe he is borderline on working against the Holy Spirit with some of what he is about to do. If he does it - or better wording he starts to do it, it will not bear well for him and his Soul see below...
Transubstantiation the Center point of the Catholic Mass and Faith...
Story of Anani’as and Sapphi’ra, Lie against the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:1-15(rsv)
“But a man named Anani’as with his wife Sapphi’ra sold a piece of property,
and with his wife’s knowledge he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
But Peter said, “Anani’as, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land?
While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
When Anani’as heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear came upon all who heard of it.
The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.
And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.”
But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? Hark, the feet of those that have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.”
Immediately she fell down at his feet and died. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
And great fear came upon the whole church, and upon all who heard of these things.
Now many signs and wonders were done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon’s Portico.
None of the rest dared join them, but the people held them in high honor.
And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
so that they even carried out the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and pallets, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them.”
How much more would a Pope face if he were to Work Against the Holy Spirit...
I Pray for His Soul and All those whom may also hold onto the Darkness!
God Bless
You are comparing individuals with denominations. I dont see how the argument works. Pelosi hasn’t started her own denomination. She’s a self-deceiving Catholic.
Please answer my question, not what you think I said.
Just speaking for myself alone, nobody else, I have my Bible and no denomination outside of Christianity. So strictly speaking for myself I have no leader no hierarchy other than Jesus
My Bible is very clear...Jesus died on the cross for my sins, we have to invite Him in thank Him for dying on the cross personally for our sins, we have to turn from our sins, repent.
Yes when/if we fall we go to Christ and ask for forgiveness, and try again.
The Bible is clear on gay marriage and abortion and all the important Christian issues.
This is not aimed at anybody, just joining the conversation
I am however sick of hearing of the Pope, wondering how many of those people coming forward for the wafer are going to vote for the Anti Christian Abomination Democrat party.
Giving a standing ovation to the pope and calling him Holy Father is just such a disgrace...sorry to anybody that is offended, but it is a absolute disgrace imo
The liberal neteworks covering this event our very happy to do so, but they would in no way cover a real Christian such as Franklin Graham
Everybody think about that one, libs and homosexual anchors like Shep,Anderson and Maddow all admire the Pope but despise real Christians like Franklin Graham
Luke 22:31-32 (KJV)
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Note that last Word - brethren. They were equal in the ministry to the circumcision during the times recorded in Acts. One was not to Lord over the others. As Jesus made clear:
Matthew 20:25-28 (KJV) (see also Mark 10 and Luke 22)
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
God set up a priesthood for Israel, but after Calvary and the rejection of Jesus by Israel, things changed. This is made clear in many of Jesus’ statements of the move away from religion to an individual relationship directly with the Father through Jesus.
John 4:19-24 (KJV)
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This is a profound Truth spoken to the woman at the well. God is a Spirit. We are called to have spiritual intimacy based on the Truth of God’s Word. That takes us back to where Adam and Eve were before the fall - enjoying a personal relationship and full access to Revelation, not just sensual information.
John 14:6-7 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
There is only one way to the Father and it is not a religion, or denomination, or any individual on Earth today. It is Jesus, the Living Word. That does not mean a Believer, pastor, priest, or church could not point you in the right direction, but the individual must choose Jesus.
John 14:18-21 (KJV)
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
This passage should excite every Believer. The Holy Spirit dwells in you. You have the inspired Word of God AND the Author available to you 24/7/365! This spiritual intimacy far surpasses anything religion could EVER offer.
John 15:1-8 (KJV)
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Again the importance of having that spiritual connection through the Spirit and the Word is repeated. We were created to produce spiritual fruit. And as it is clear here, separated from Jesus you can do nothing. One definition for religion is attempting to produce fruit without being connected to Jesus, who is the Living Word.
Later Paul received the revelation of the Body of Christ, and would clarify this new relationship with Jesus as the Head, and only Head of the Body.
Ephesians 1:15-23 (KJV)
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Jesus is the Head over ALL THINGS to the Body of Christ. And then in the next chapter of Ephesians, Paul places Believers - alive in Christ and seated together with Christ. Through Him we have access to the Father through the Spirit. Its all by God’s Grace, not by any works.
Colossians 2:6-10 (KJV)
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Believers are COMPLETE in Christ! What more could religion do other than confuse, beguile, or lead you astray from the remarkable Truth of the Gospel?
Colossians 2:16-23 (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
What Paul is talking about is all the religious hooey that men invent to lead people away from the Truth. The Gospel is supposed to be GOOD NEWS, freedom in Christ! We are to hold to JESUS, not any denomination or religion.
Colossians 3:1-4 (KJV)
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Note where Paul tells Believers to set their affection. Its not some worldly religion or earthly leader, but on Christ. Look to where you are seated in Christ.
Through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, God dwells in Believers, so that as He was, so are we in this world. (1 John 4:14-19) It takes a theologian to misunderstand that remarkable revelation.
Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship. The Body of Christ is not a denomination. It is a spiritual body with Jesus as the Head. Even if men create religious barriers to divide us, there can still be spiritual unity in the Body of Christ.
Having learned the hard way, you never put your faith in denominations or men. They will always let you down. Jesus will never deceive you, never forsake you, and never lead you astray. His Word IS Truth.
And passing judgment on their pope also demonstrates the *every man his own pope*-ness they revile in others.
They do?
Can you show proof of that?
I have here the statements of faith of several denominations and independent churches.
They are here for perusal for anyone who wants to see how they *differ* from each other wand where they damn others to hell for not being them, as Catholicism does with other churches in ITS catechism.
"No salvation outside the Catholic church"
Perhaps you would point us to the statement of faith of other denominations which says *No salvation outside Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, etc......* Where they say that there is no salvation outside their own church.
Statements of faith for different churches
Assemblies of God
http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/index.cfm#
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
http://arpchurch.org/documents/confession-of-faith/
Calvary Chapel
http://calvarychapel.com/home/about/
The Christian and Missionary Alliance
http://www.cmalliance.org/about/history/
Elim Fellowship Churches
http://www.elimfellowship.org/about-us/statement-of-faith/
The Father's House
http://tfhny.org/the-house/what-we-believe/
Osais LA
http://www.oasisla.org/about/what-we-believe/
Presbyterian Church in Americahttp://www.pcaac.org/resources/wcf/
United Reformed church in North America https://www.urcna.org/sysfiles/site_uploads/custom_public/custom2642.pdf
Westside Christian Fellowship
http://westsidechristianfellowship.org/about-wcf/statement-of-faith/
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