Posted on 02/04/2016 12:39:52 PM PST by metmom
Wrong.
The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.
They both are God.
Bible.
.
I’ll be honest (of course). Your reply reminded me of ‘clouds and wind, but no rain’. (You say ‘Bible’, but where are the scriptures?)
**The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.**
I never said that they were.
God is the Father. Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Jesus Christ and his apostles never used the phrase “God the Son”. Are you wiser than they?
Jesus Christ said that all power was given to him. By who pray tell?
Jesus Christ said that all the words and works, that he said or performed, were from the Father.
Is the Father omnipresent? Jesus Christ declared that God the Father is a Spirit (Jn 4:23,24).
Is the Father found in the Son? If not, then the Father is not omnipresent.
Consider the Son’s prayer to the Father in John 17:1-3:
1. “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee.” (see how the Son NEEDS the Father to glorify him so that he can glorify the Father.)
2. “As thou hast GIVEN him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as many as thou hast given him.” (the Father gave him this power, not vice versa. And the power is the gift of the Holy Ghost.)
3. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the ONLY TRUE GOD, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Sent from where?
The soul of the Son was sent from the spiritual realm of God the Father, into the physical realm of God’s creation.
“Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:” Heb. 10:5
In the trinitarian view, that has the Son as the creator of all things, who made the Son’s body?
Take a look at the Ark of the Covenant:
The focal point of worship was the invisible God that dwelt between the cherubims. God’s wisdom showed in that instruction, by making sure that the people wouldn’t worship the works of men’s hands. But symbolism of the Ark’s two main ingredients (wood, overlaid with gold inside AND outside) was shown in Jesus own words in John 14:10,11:
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.”
Remember what was put in the Ark? God put his words (the tablets of stone) in his Son.
“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.’ Jn 12:49,50.
Also, the golden bowl of manna was preserved even before God commanded Moses to build the Ark. (Ex. 16:32-34) Yes, that’s proof that God’s bread of life was to be placed in his Son:
And so, Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost. He had to go away so that the Holy Ghost could be given. That’s why the Ark had to disappear from view. The Son was going to disappear from view (ascend to heaven). Just as the Jews are going to bring an ark back into view, so also is the Lord Jesus Christ going to return to view when he comes again!
As Aaron’s rod that budded, blossomed, and brought forth almonds, was placed in the Ark, so also the resurrection power was placed in Jesus Christ:
“For as the father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.” Jn 5:26
“Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it up again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.” Jn 10 17:18
“...Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,...”. Rms 6:4
The worldly entertainment industry is powered by the ‘prince of this world’. A favorite theme of it is people possessed by an evil spirit. They have a mind of their own, but to varying degrees, are shown to let the evil power use their body to do evil deeds. The subjects are often shown dying in that horrible condition of possession.
The Holy Ghost baptism is the power of God to empower people to be used of God for only good, and after death, raise them from the dead when the trump of God sounds.
The Son of God (man with a soul) was and is possessed with the power of God (the Father), and has expressed the will of the invisible God to all that will hear his voice.
Does that last comment sound familiar?.............
“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good.....the Jews...slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up.....he rose from the dead. And commanded us to preach unto the people......remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all that heard the word.’ Acts 10:36-44 (abbreviated to simply get the main point across. Also read Peter’s initial testimony; Acts 2:14-40)
Wanna know how Jesus Christ is Lord of all? I think it is because the omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient Father is in him, and he in him.
Jesus Christ declares He is the alpha and omega in Revelation.
In the OT, Jehovah God declares He is the alpha and omega.
Conclusion? Jesus Christ is God.
Acts 5 declares the Holy Spirit is God.
Conclusion? One God in three persons.
More clouds and wind and no rain.
Jesus Christ has the Alpha and Omega IN him.
**Acts 5 declares the Holy Spirit is God.**
The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father. John 14:26; 15:26
“And, behold. I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.” (that sounds like Holy Ghost baptism right there.)
Just as there is no phrase “God the Son’ in the scriptures, there is also no phrase ‘God the Holy Spirit” (Ghost) in the them as well. The Father is the source of all things divine:
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” James 1:17,18.
Remember how Jesus Christ was so impressed with the faith of the centurion, that asked for his servant to be healed?
That centurion understood the power of a supreme commander: “...I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.” Lk 8:9
Jesus healed the servant. And where did Jesus Christ say his power came from?.......that’s right,...the Father.
No, Jesus doesn’t say he has the alpha and omega in him, the passage states Jesus IS the alpha and omega.
Your problem is making up rain.
Also, the Holy Spirit is a PERSON. You can’t lie to a force or power.
The Scriptures declare Jesus as God.
The Scriptures declare the Father as God.
The Scriptures declare the Holy Spirit as God.
The Scriptures declare there is only One God.
The Trinity is true.
That true rain feels so good when it finally hits you in the face.
Where in Revelation 22:6-19 does it say Jesus has the alpha and omega in him? Is that some Jehovah Witness Bible you use?
Before Moses was, I am There is a reason the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus immediately on hearing that statement Jesus applied the unique and holy name of God to Himself That was a direct claim of divinity
Jesus is the alpha and omega. In Revelation He says I am the alpha and omega, I was dead but am alive forever more. When was God the Father dead?
Jesus Christ is the alpha and omega, the great I AM, just as the Father and Spirit are. No other conclusion is possible
So you don’t believe that the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in the Father? If so, you defy the Son’s own definition. And he claims to have received all his wisdom and instruction from the Father.
You Trinitarians believe that the Christ is separate, and is creator all things. What did the Father make?
The Father made all things for and through Christ Read the first couple verses of John. Christ is indeed separate from the Father BUT The Father,Christ, and the Spirit are One. This is not comprehensible to the human mind, but do you really expect us to be able to comprehend God in His fullness? Some things remain a mystery that we have to take on faith
One more time. Jesus Christ said that the Father is in him, and that he is in the Father. He can say that he is the alpha and omega because he is the mouth piece of Almighty God. (Remember Heb. 1:1-3?...”God...in these last days hast spoken to us by his Son, whom he hast appointed heir of all things”.) If the Father is entirely separate, he will have nothing left when he gives it all to the Son.
All through the gospel of John, the Son points out the source of his wisdom and power.
I can answer every point that you bring up with the Son’s own explanation of him being in the Father, and the Father in him.
You want the Father to be separate, and probably have his own image. Jesus didn’t teach you that. Who did?
You want Jesus Christ to be called ‘God the Son’. Jesus and his apostles didn’t teach you that. Who did?
You want to call the Spirit of God, ‘God the Holy Spirit’. Jesus and his apostles never taught you that. Who did?
Jesus (and the writer of Hebrews) claim that he inherited his name. Do you believe them? If you do, then you have to admit that one of the names of the Father is ‘Jesus’.
As I said before, Jesus Christ pointed out how the centurion had great faith. How? Because the centurion understood power structure. He was under authority from a power higher than himself, and used that authority as if it was his own, because that’s the reality. Caesar’s power was vested in him, and was Caesar’s voice to his men.
Likewise, Jesus Christ pointed out the power structure he dwells in: “My Father is greater than I”, and “I am in my Father, and my Father in me”. All power is GIVEN the Christ. Do you believe that?
I’ve debated this with Prods that admit that the phrase ‘God the Son’ is unscriptural, and say they can believe in the trinity using the scriptural phrase ‘Son of God’. That’s commendable.
But, the RCs that I posed the same question to are not willing to give it up, because that would lead to not calling Mary the ‘mother of God’. They believe that the flesh of Jesus Christ is God.
The reality is that the flesh of Jesus Christ contains the invisible God. Mary didn’t have any part in making that. But, that’s the part that makes the Christ Lord.
“The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.” They crucified the Son, not realizing that he was the earthly habitation of God the Father.
In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. Period
Good afternoon.
I usually avoid these threads, but here goes...
The Lord G-d created everything. He created water. Water has three states, liquid, gaseous, and solid. Father, Son, and Holy spirit.
Incoming!
5.56mm
Where did the Son say that his words came from?
Jesus Christ is the audio and visible expression of the invisible God the Father.
This thread is an excellent example of what one gets from Protestantism and its regressive devolutions, every man and woman voting for a personal theology.
The reason? Just like the religious experts of today, they grossly misunderstood his words, his works, and his message. The NT documents numerous examples of the religious experts not comprehending correctly, Jesus ADMONISHING them.
It was not a claim of divinity. That was the point. He was correcting them.
The words of God - His promises - are as good as if materially existing at the very moment of their thought and utterance. That's just the trustworthy nature of God and His words. Linear time in the physical world catches up sooner or later, when natural man eventually sees these promises of God manifest in a tangible way. But they already existed, no matter what they are. Those seeing by faith, however, see, embrace, and believe the promises BEFORE the word of God shows up on the physical scene for the slow pokes.
Hebrews 11:1-4
1 Now faith is the substance (confidence, substructure, foundation) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed [perfected] by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Things which are perceived [spiritually] are not made of things which do appear [physically].
God said so simply (Ex 3:14), I am who I am.
It's His character; it's His name. His children are chips off the old block - that's how you recognize them.
Who/that/which - same Hebrew word, asher. Ehyeh asher Ehyeh.
This is who I am.. here you go.. what you see is what you get.
So simple, a child could understand.
Matthew 17:24-27;18:1-6
24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Open, wholehearted, sincere... what you see is what you get. No wonder the religious chattering class didn't/don't recognize a chip off the old block. He was/is strange to them.
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
I have several RC friends, and know other RCs enough to know what they believe. And from them, I could probably show you 20 or so people that have different opinions of RC doctrine.
Just on the mass, there are those that say ‘mass every day’, some that make sure they get it weekly, others that make it a couple of times a month, and some that do when ever it’s is convenient (one is a OTR truck driver, so he has to fit it in when he can. Seems like a good excuse. He’s a good guy, pro-life, traditional marriage, etc. Unlike abominable people like Pelosi, who I’m guessing manages weekly, and brags about her faithfulness).
I’ve asked some of them, “If the mass is eaten for eternal life, why is it taken repeatedly? Once doesn’t last? When does it wear off? Does it wear off?” Aside for mostly ‘I don’t know’ answers, I don’t think that I’ve ever gotten the same answers to those questions.
הָיָה hâyâh, haw-yaw; a primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):—beacon, × altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, × have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, × use.
And it's pronounced Hey Ya!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.