How to Understand the Doctrines

[Mrs. Don-o]

I can understand your pain, disappointment, sense of betrayal.

You say "And after brushing up on history Ifind the idea of papal infallibility ridiculous..."

Let me point something out. It is precisely papal error or stupidity which makes "infallibility" so important at such a time as this.

All infallibility means, is that no matter what dingbat opinions one or another pope may have down through the centuries, that dingbat opinion will NOT be imposed as a matter of doctrine binding on the whole Church.

Infallibility is basically a negative, defensive protection. It does not mean that the pope's statements will always be correct, wise, clear, complete, or timely. It just means that if they are flat-out erroneous, they will not become an official part of the "deposit of the Faith."

In other words, you can safely ignore dingbat opinions, because they never get "written in stone." They never make it as doctrine.

Here, this YouTube may help. It's cross-eyed funny, but it's true:

How to Explain Papal Infallibility in Two Minutes (YouTube Link)

Go ahead and click, it'll make you laugh, and it's well worth two minutes of your time..

God bless you.

[Salvation]

You can remain a Catholic. There is a big difference between doctrine and dogma.

FYI, Pope Francis has not changed either doctrine or dogma.

[Claud]

Also, there is a raucous, exasperating but often enlightening Religion forum on this site. Use it.

Got tough questions? Post them there, watch the fireworks, and sit back and learn.

[Gay State Conservative]

The Pope is only infallible in certain situations.I can’t recall the Latin name for it.

[knarf]

You're not looking for a church or a denomination ... you're looking for truth

Jesus is the way
the truth
and the life
No man cometh unto the Father
but by Him (Jesus)

I, (a former Catholic since 1981 .. I was 33 years old) attend a Baptist church because of the preaching of the truth, but I'm more a biblicist than a Baptist

Baptists have proven to me they are preaching closer to truth than other "denomination"

Father, we unite in prayer for our FRiend Vision, and ask You to guide and lead him or her to YOUR truth, in Jesus' name, Amen

[Romulus]

That’s not scriptural.

[Campion]

And after brushing up on history I find the idea of papal infallibility ridiculous, insulting to God.

I think you don't really know what papal infallibility is.

If it's "insulting to God," then it's ten times more "insulting to God" to believe the human authors of Scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write exactly what God intended them to write ... but that's exactly what all orthodox Christians believe.

[Campion]

A pope is only infallible when he says he is infallible.

That isn't quite true. Vatican Council I set down 4 conditions for an infallible Papal teaching:

• The Pope must be speaking in his supreme authority as Pope, not as a private teacher, as Bishop of Rome, etc.
• He must be speaking to the whole church. An interview with a journalist flunks this test, as does a decree disciplining a particular individual.
• He must be attempting to teach definitively, as something Catholics are required to believe under pain of heresy
• And he must be teaching a doctrine concerning faith or morals. Musings concerning, e.g., science or baseball don't count.

[Salvation]

Read this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3432505/posts

[Salvation]

You need not worry. Doctrine does not change.

Neither does dogma.

[Salvation]

There are only a few dogmas. Can you name them?

[WVKayaker]

I was raised in the Episcopal Church, which is oft referred as "Catholic Lite". much o9f the liturgy and dogma came from the Catholic religion, but left out the Pope part. After all, the King wanted a divorce.

But, I found that God doesn't dwell in religions. He is a Spirit, and we must find the way to Him through our faith in His power and trust in His ways. He has given us the Truth in the way of Scripture, and when I see the way the Roman Catholics have bastardized it, by adding all of the Mariology and Saintology, it gets too far away from the Truth as exposed in the Word.

Look first at the book of Romans, which exposes most of what we see in the Roman Cultic practices. Paul goes into great depth and you will be enlightened if you will jut allow His Spirit to guide you.

We are saved by Grace, not by works. The Roman Catholic way is to work things out, and if you fail here, your friend and relatives can pray you out of their "purgatory". If you die in sin, you will die for eternity. But, God forgives and gives us eternal life. That means it never ends. It cannot be taken away if you leave that group, no matter how much they pressure and cajol. A you will see on this thread, many will tell you that if you leave the group, that you will lose any chance at eternal life with the Father. Not true. Study the Word, and pray for the guidance of His Holy Spirit. He promises that it will come...

Galatians 3: 23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[Salvation]

Does Dogma Evolve?

Dogmas of the Catholic Church [Catholic Caucus]
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Our Lady and Dogmas: Pondering the Assumption (Launch of Rosary Crusade)
[CATHOLIC/FRIENDS CAUCUS] This dogmatic denunciation of dogma sponsored by a disorganized...
Preserved Sinless from the Moment of Humanity (Dogma of the Immaculate Conception) [Catholic Caucus]
The Decline of Dogma and the Decline of Church Membership
The Three D's -- Dogma, Doctrine and Discipline [Ecumenical]
Radio Replies First Volume - Dogma and reason
Radio Replies First Volume - Development of dogma
Docility (on Catholic dogma and infallibility)
Ineffabilis Deus: 8 December 1854 (Dogma of the Immaculate Conception)

[Salvation]

Can the Church change its doctrines?
The Three D's -- Dogma, Doctrine and Discipline [Ecumenical]
Catholic Doctrine on the Holy Trinity

[Ransomed]

The sacraments are either what the Church says they are or not. Popes that are good men or Popes that are stiffs don’t seem to have anything to do with the question, or if you should deprive yourself of them over a Pope who is a bad guy. Thinking that he does have something to do with them it is a form of Donatism, a heresy.

Good luck.

Freegards

[knarf]

Thank you, FRiend

[spintreebob]

Read the Bible. How to read the Bible? David Pawson on Youtube has many excellent Youtube videos on how to read and understand each book of the Bible. Although David Pawson is a theologian and has Protestnt background, much of his presentation on not buried in small c “church” doctrine. It is more about how to get the most out of the Bible.

[BlackElk]

I won't debate you on doctrinal differences but I will disagree with one of your points. Canons 846-848 and 851 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church published in 1997 sees the Church as much broader than you suspect. I concede that many statements of early and Reformation era Roman Catholic leaders would have it that formal membership in the Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation. That does not seem to be the current belief and I do not share such a belief that non-Catholics are excluded from heaven.

One problem is the idea of God as the Eternal and merciless accountant in the sky, engaged in a never-ending game of gotcha looking for excuses to send people to hell. That's not my idea of God and I would bet it is not yours either.

My belief as to God is that there is one and only one God, manifested in three Persons: the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit, that He always was, always will be and always remains the same, that He is omniscient, omnipresent, all good, just and merciful and that He was born into this world through Mary who obeyed God and accepted voluntarily her role as the mother of Jesus Christ in response to God's request conveyed by the Archangel Gabriel at the annunciation. It was necessary for the salvation of any human that Jesus Christ be born into this world, live, engage in public ministry, suffer under the Roman governor Pontius Plate, and be put to death in atonement for human sins. No human can earn or merit his/her own salvation and only a Divine sacrifice could atone for human sins against the will of the Creator of humanity.

I do, as a Catholic, disagree with a lot of what you posted but I do not allow myself the luxury of arguing theology with my Reformed brothers and sisters in Christ. I am too busy being impressed by the saintly adherence of so many of them to the God that I worship and His standards. I have had the privilege of representing many of them as an attorney in pro-life causes like abortion mill "rescues" and representing each according to his or her own beliefs rather than my own (if we differed in any respect).

Pray for me as I pray for you.

God bless you and yours, now and forever!

[BlackElk]

Pius IX declared the doctrine that Mary was Immaculately Conceived (i.e. without Original Sin) in a document entitled Ineffabilis Deus published 12/8/1854. That would make two instances.

[impimp]

Yes...but he also has to say he is acting infallibly. The wording was clear with the assumption. It was also clear when the bishops conference was ratified- i.e. Vatican 2.