Do “Good” People Go To Hell?

http://www.theignorantfishermen.com ^ | 09-19-16 | DJP I.F.

[kindred]

Religious forums are like safe zones in American atheist universities where arrogant ignorant and evil communistic left wing liberals mark and imprison conservatives, which is hypocrisy and imprisonment and against our Constitutional liberties. The good news of salvation is new to all who do not know that.This is the gospel of good news every day until Jesus Christ returns to Israel after the 7 year tribulation to set up His 1000 year rule over all the earth as King and Lord of all, aka, the Kingdom of Heaven which is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto , which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[Louis Foxwell]

it is not the goodness or badness that counts, but one’s acceptance of the refuge (or atonement)

I have continued throughout my life to hold fast to the belief that true salvation cannot be lost. It comes as a cleansing stream, washing over one's life, creating out of the old a new life in Christ. And yet, I have lived in the stumbling, bumbling presence of sin my entire life. Praise God I do not carry the burden of my sin. My singular hope is in the knowledge that I was born again many, many years ago.

[kindred]

The earth is not hell, it is the place of testing God gives mankind to believe on Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour or to believe on themselves as some sort of god who reject the Almighty God of Israel as Lord and Saviour of all who believe on Jesus Christ. Hell is the holding place of all who don’t and good people go there as well as the wicked who all reject God’s only begotten and anointed Son as their savior. Those who believe on Jesus Christ are saved Christians, those who believe in good works are not saved people but children of Satan, which every evil and good person with forgiveness by Christ is.

[kindred]

Amen. And may the good Lord and our Saviour Jesus Christ bless all His saved children.

[tflabo]

Bottom line is that Jesus is the Savior and even bad sinners can go to Heaven if they repent and in faith receive the Christ into their hearts and minds. The wise God will know who to enter into Heaven or not.

[kindred]

The gospel of salvation by the grace of God in Jesus Christ alone is an offense to man but not to God, who made Him our Lord and Saviour at His first incarnation. He will return. Catholics believe good works can save, that is not true as good works are insufficient and glorify the sinner and not Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. This is the work of God and must be accepted by faith in Jesus alone who was only good in the sight of God, the unblemished Lamb of God who was crucified for our sins and rose again the third day in the flesh that we might be saved by faith with out good works as we are incapable of being good.

[FNU LNU]

One of Satan’s biggest lies is that “hell,” which most view as eternal conscious torment in the spirit realm, is a scriptural concept.

It’s generally thought that “hell” is a proper translation of the Greek word Gehenna. As the following short article shows, that is not the case at all.

Thanks for reading and considering.

“Hell” Not A Proper Translation for Gehenna

Samuel G. Dawson

Introduction

I read with interest my friend Ed Stevens’ article explaining the twelve New Testament Gehenna passages in the Fulfilled! Summer 2016 issue. He began by saying that those of us who don’t believe in the (Roman Catholic—SGD) concept of hell as eternal conscious torment of the lost, have overlooked the words Gehinnom in the OT and Gehenna in the NT that are commonly translated hell. Rather than overlooking these words, my study has led me inescapably to the conclusion that both these terms were proper names of a well-known valley just south of Jerusalem, and they shouldn’t have been translated at all, any more than Jerusalem or Bethlehem were. Actually, they weren’t translated as hell! The Catholic scholars in the Anglican Church (that part of the Roman Catholic church stolen by Henry VIII when the pope wouldn’t let him marry Anne Boleyn) who translated the KJV merely substituted the theologically-loaded word hell for Gehenna. This word was loaded with concepts entirely foreign to the word Gehenna.
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Those scholars had a bad habit of that sort of thing. They translated presbuteros (elders) as priests, pascha (Passover) as Easter (once), and baptizo (dip, plunge, immerse) as baptism (to slip their sprinkling and pouring for baptism into the Bible), and substituted the “divine pronouns” (thee, thou, and thine) for us rather than translating consistently. In each case, they substituted theologically-loaded words for the originals.

Ed’s analysis of the twelve instances of Gehenna in the NT displays the influence of such substitutions of hell (to him meaning eternal conscious torment in the spiritual realm) to those influenced by Roman Catholicism) for Gehenna, which never included such concepts. Had it not been for such substitutions, none of us would have concluded that Jesus taught anything about eternal conscious torment in a spiritual state.

To be fair, Catholics aren’t the only ones to pull such stunts. In Ac. 8.20, where Peter said to Simon the sorcerer, “thy silver perish with thee,” Today’s English Version has him telling Simon to “go to hell.” The word hell is not there in your Bible; the translators just substituted it, and that’s just the point. Hell’s not in any of them. It was just substituted for Gehenna in Bibles with Roman Catholic influence.

Contrary to this, it is said that “these twelve verses demonstrated that gehenna refers primarily (if not exclusively) to the place in the unseen spiritual realm where the souls of the unredeemed will be consciously punished forever.” It’s very easy to see if this claim is true. We’ll just read the twelve passages and see if we see eternal conscious torment in the spiritual realm in even a single one of them.

Matt. 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. (NAS)

Look carefully: do you see anything in that entire verse about eternal conscious torment in the spiritual realm? There’s not a hint of it, is there? Folks just read that into the word hell, just as Roman Catholic scholars intended! Jesus didn’t say what Gehenna was. He didn’t mention the spiritual realm or that anyone would be punished consciously forever. Jesus just said such were in danger of the Gehenna of fire, which is what the Jews and I understood: a fiery judgment coming on Jerusalem, whose rubble would end up in Gehenna. But it’s not Roman Catholic doctrine, which most just unconsciously plug into what Jesus said.

The next six passages noticed are the “eye, hand, and foot” passages, which we can deal with together:

Matt. 5:29, 30, 18:9, Mark 9:43, 45, 47 And if your right eye (or hand or foot) makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body (with two eyes, hands, or feet) to be thrown into hell. (NAS)

Does anyone believe people are going to have eyes, feet, and hands in a spiritual realm where there is eternal conscious torment? No one that I’m aware of!

Again, looking carefully at each of these passages, Jesus didn’t say hell – he said Gehenna, the nearby location the Jews were thoroughly familiar with. Impenitent Jews were going to end up with their whole bodies cast into Gehenna at the destruction of Jerusalem (the time element will be given in another of these passages, momentarily). Note carefully that Jesus didn’t mention souls punished consciously forever in a single one of them, did he? Yet Ed says “these twelve verses demonstrated that gehenna refers primarily (if not exclusively) to the place in the unseen spiritual realm where the souls of the unredeemed will be consciously punished forever.

In Mk. 9.43, “unquenchable fire” doesn’t mean eternal fire, but fire that you can’t quench or put out. It’s used of national judgment in Ezek. 20.47-48, on Israel in Amos 5.5-6, on Jerusalem in Isa. 66.15-16, and of Babylon’s burning of Jerusalem in Jer. 21:10-14. Of course, none of those fires were eternal; none of them are still burning!

Matt. 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (NAS)

While we use this passage many times to prove that the soul of man cannot be destroyed, Jesus plainly affirms that God can (and imminently would, as we’re about to see) destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Note that he didn’t say, “I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed the body, will punish your soul consciously eternally,” as many read it. The concepts of conscious, soul, eternal, and torment are not in this passage, either. I’m afraid they are just thinking of those things as they read these verses, which say no such thing!.

Readers of Fulfilled! can sympathize with such people, for as we studied I Corinthians 15 to see a first century fulfillment, just reading the chapter still flooded our minds with all the futurist sermons and illustrations we had heard on the resurrection. Our minds performed on that subject as theirs (and perhaps yours) does now on Jesus’ use of Gehenna, so you can be a good guy and do this! Please take a few moments and read Josh. 11.11, 10.35, 39, where the Jews conquering Canaan destroyed the souls of its inhabitants with the sword. This was national judgment, not eternal conscious torment in a spiritual realm as many imagine in Mt. 10.28. When Ed asserts, “The physical valley of Hinnom did not affect the soul,” surely he’s forgotten these occurrences of this very thing in Joshua, and therefore his conclusion that “therefore, gehenna must be a spiritual place in the unseen realm in which souls are brought to everlasting ruin in the afterlife” doesn’t follow at all. The Jews listening to Jesus in Mt. 10.28 would have understood such language. They knew from their Old Testament background that God could, and many times had, destroyed both bodies and souls in various national judgments. In Lk. 12.4-5, Luke’s account of Mt. 10.28, Jesus spoke of the fiery judgment coming on the Jews when he said in v49, “I came to cast fire upon the earth (Gr., ge, land); and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?”

Matt. 23:15. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel about on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. (NAS)

In this eleventh Gehenna passage, Jesus doesn’t mention eternal conscious torment in the spiritual realm - not in one syllable. With the help of our Roman Catholic substitution for Gehenna, many just read those things into these verses. It’s quite a testimony to the power of the human mind to do such a thing, isn’t it?

This passage gives us the time element of the punishment of Gehenna. In Mt. 23.36, Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.” Not only was Jesus’ generation of Jews going to experience the judgment of Gehenna, but in the next chapter, Jesus said it would happen in their generation: “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.” (Mt. 24.34)

I’m sure we’re agreed that Jesus is speaking of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem, but that’s precisely when the judgment of Gehenna took place, isn’t it?

We now come to the last Gehenna passage, the only one not spoken by Jesus.

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell. (NAS)

Like Jesus, James uses no words like eternal, conscious, torment, or spiritual realm. He merely used Gehenna, which his first century Jewish audience was familiar with. He’s addressing the misuse of the tongue just like Jesus did in the first Gehenna passage in inspired literature, Mt. 5.22. He says their tongue can set on fire the course of their lives, and their lives are going to be set on fire by Gehenna.

Conclusion

We’ve now read the twelve Gehenna passages closely. Again, it was asserted: “... these twelve verses demonstrated that gehenna refers primarily (if not exclusively) to the place in the unseen spiritual realm where the souls of the unredeemed will be consciously punished forever.” Did you see any evidence of that? Its author’s a mighty good man, but there’s not one syllable of eternal conscious torment in a spiritual state in a single one of them. Those concepts are included in the Roman Catholic concept of hell, but not at all in Gehenna.

False theories of eternal punishment of the wicked have done unfathomable damage in the religious realm. Untold millions of people have obeyed God purely out of fear of a false concept of hell. Other untold millions have turned their backs on God because of a false sense of hell, as described by Roman Catholic sources, and their followers in most denominations.

To sum up, Jesus threatened the Jews in the environs of Jerusalem (and no one else: not people in Ephesus, Rome, or people of our time) that they were headed for the valley named Gehenna. There would be unquenchable fire (Mk. 9.43) upon his generation (Mt. 23.36) in his generation (Mt. 24.34), when God threatened to destroy the souls of those of Jesus’ generation after killing their bodies (Lk. 12.5, Mt. 10.28).

None of these hell passages say that anyone of our day can go to hell. None of them associate hell with Satan. None of them say that Satan’s domain is hell. Though they speak of men being killed and destroyed in Gehenna, none of them speak of men being tormented there.

Ed is correct when he affirms that we shouldn’t overlook the words Gehinnom and Gehenna, but neither should we blatantly read into them concepts entirely foreign to them. I appreciate very much his challenging our thinking on this subject.

Thanks for reading, and considering,

Samuel G. Dawson

P. S. For further study on the subject of hell, please see http://sgdpress.com/Jesus__Teaching_on_Hell.html

[kindred]

There are not good people on the earth.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

[Blue Collar Christian]

There are no “good” people. Some people behave better than others, and that is relative. Relativism is not truth.

So this is somewhat of a trick question asked by a God resisting individual in order to argue. It is pointless except to make an argument, as the subject of the question does not exist, like asking if dry waves will wet a beach.

[sparklite2]

There’s not a single good person on earth?
That’s some major league cynicism you got there.

[kindred]

And amen to that. The full atonement of faith in the blood of Christ crucied for our sins keeps saved sinners from the wrath of God from the moment of first believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and coming King of the earth.

[kindred]

[And on that, this should really be in the religion forum.]

Religion is vain, God saves mankind by faith in Jesus Christ who is His only begotten Son. This good news is valid to whomsoever will hear and believe the Word of God by Jesus Christ who is our sin bearer.

[WKUHilltopper]

for later

[kindred]

[There’s not a single good person on earth?]

No, not one. Only Jesus Christ alone fulfilled the law and was considered good by God, of whom He Himself said, the good works of mankind may be good but can not save from sin as the Scriptures teach those who read of Jesus Christ, and who believe every Word of God is true and not to be refused.

Matthew 17:5

“While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.”

King James Version (KJV)

[I want the USA back]

“We Are a Broken Egg”
That sums up the depth and intelligence level of that ranting tirade.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Romans 3:10

[sparklite2]

Does this throw out ‘good’ because it is not perfect?
Since there are no perfect people, it seems excessively Manichean to condemn those who approach but fail perfection as being whatever the opposite of good is. While it may be attractive to those who condemn everything around them, the world is too lovely to traverse it only by holding one’s nose, as if one were above it all.

[GBA]

Do "good" sinners go to Heaven?

Do forgiven sinners go to Heaven?

Do forgiven sinners who do good works go to Heaven?

Do forgiven sinners whose works do not match nor indicate their stated belief in Christ go to Heaven?

I don't know. Personally, I'm just happy that the job of reading hearts and judging people and their souls doesn't fall on me to do.

I hate to admit it, but living up to His Standards has been way beyond me and my understand so far.

My thoughts, my mouth and my acts continually testify against me.

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

Yes, if they commit the unforgiveable sin of rejecting the one path that YHWH has provided for them to go to heaven.

[HarleyD]

Belief is a gift from God.

Joh_5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

Joh 10:24-26 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Php_1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

We only believe because God has granted it to us along with suffering.

But don't underestimate going to church. This is a command by God that we do not forsake the assembly of others. It is to our benefit that God gives these commands.