Posted on 03/26/2017 6:05:10 PM PDT by grumpa
I have heard smart pastors say some pretty dumb things about Bible prophecy. It is amazing to me how blinded otherwise intelligent men can be about this subject. Here are just three examples.
1. I remember being in a Bible class with a very bright young pastor as he began a study of Hebrews. The writer of Hebrews clearly declared that HE AND HIS CONTEMPORARIES were living in the “last days” (Hebrews 1:2). But this pastor just could not accept it. I shook my head listening to the violence he did to this text and the hoops he went through to explain away what the author of Hebrews (probably Paul) clearly said. His comments were largely unintelligible, but included this: “We know that the writer of Hebrews was not REALLY in the last days, because we know that the last days are still future.” At best, the pastor was using a logical fallacy called “begging the question” (or “circular reasoning”) which means ASSUMING something to be true that one is trying to prove to be true. The pastor was also ignorant of the fact that there are 15 primary texts in the New Testament about the last days/end times, and the culmination of none of them can be placed outside of the first century. (Other examples include Acts 2:14-20; 1 Corinthians 7:29-21; 10:11; 1 Peter 1:20; 4:7; 1 John 2:17-18). All the writers of the New Testament were speaking with one voice, of course, about the END OF THE OLD COVENANT AGE which culminated in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple—at Jesus’ divine presence in judgment (Matthew 23:29-39; 26:64; etc.)—not the end of history.
2. Another pastor on staff at this church frequently closed his sermons beseeching Jesus to come soon (Revelation 1:1; 22:20). I queried the pastor about this and he said, “Well, Jesus is always coming soon.” Good grief. Some Christians have been saying that for 2000 years. Do words have any meaning at all? Does love mean hate? Does joy mean sadness? There is no dictionary meaning that can make “soon” mean 2000 years later. And look, we can we know for certain what SOON means in the New Testament by using Scripture to interpret Scripture. The timing of the last-days’ events are consistently expressed to be in the first century. Examples include: BEFORE THE DISCIPLES HAD FINISHED GOING THROUGH THE TOWNS OF ISRAEL (Matthew 10:23), WHILE SOME OF THE DISCIPLES WERE STILL ALIVE (Matthew 16:27-28); IN THEIR GENERATION (Matthew 23:36; 24:34; 26:64; Mark 8:38-9:1); ABOUT TO TAKE PLACE (Luke 21:32; Revelation 3:10—see a literal translation such as Young’s); THE TIME WAS NEAR (Revelation 1:3; 22:10). When Timothy and Paul were to come soon/quickly in Philippians 2:19, 24), could that mean 2,000 years later (see also Acts 22:18; 25:4; 1 Corinthians 4:19)? Of course not.
3. I also remember a pastor in another church insisting that “this generation” in Matthew 24:34 (also Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32) means “some future race of people.” Again, let’s use Scripture to interpret Scripture. There are nine other times in the New Testament where we see the phrase “this generation.” Each of these clearly means the group of people who were contemporaries of Jesus. Look them up for yourself: Matthew 11:16-24; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 23:33-38 (ref. 21:33-45); Mark 8:38-9:1; Luke 11:50-51; 17:25; Acts 2:40.
Words like THIS GENERATION, SOON, and NEAR are God’s words. God said things that mean something and that could be understood. He is not a deceiver. Futurists, especially dispensationalists, pride themselves on taking the Bible literally. But they certainly do not take the time-statements literally. It is only the preterist view that honors the numerous imminency passages, restores Jesus’ credibility, is consistent throughout, and is faithful to Scripture.
The first-century fulfillment expectations were the correct ones and things happened right on time—no gaps, no delays, no exegetical gymnastics, and no changing the meaning of commonly used and normally understood words. Such manipulative devices have only given skeptics and liberals a foothold to discredit Christ’s deity and the inerrancy of Scripture. What needs adjusting is our understanding of both the time and nature of fulfillment to comport with Holy Scripture, and not manipulation of the time factor to conform to our popular, futuristic, and delayed expectations.
Dispensationalism makes the most sense to me. I know prophecy can be confusion and luckily our salvation isn’t dependent on our understanding of it. I’ve Studied Daniel and Revelation and this time period we are in doesn’t seem like the Kingdom that is written about in either book. It seems like the time described right before The Tribulation begins.
I agree with your point of view. I also go with a Pre-trib Rapture as making the most sense.
God decides where He will dwell. His temple is His dwelling place.
There has been no event in human history since Pentecost, where God the Holy Spirit now indwells every believer to have changed that location.
His temple remains.
Paul wrote about “our great hope”, which would seem to describe a Pre-trib Rapture as it wouldn’t be most people’s hope to go through the Tribulation. Some Post-tribbers do seem to want to do that though.
Thanks for the info Charles. Simple reason most Pastors don’t understand Eschatology is because they don’t ever get taught in the seminary. They are just learning what is needed to get the diploma so they can serve God and make that paycheck. The seminaries teach it wrong anyway so until that gets fixed, this problem will be repetitive.
Evil is on the march today like we’ve never seen before in our lifetimes, spiritual wickedness ruling from high places, principalities and powers over the past seven decades (since prior to World War II) shaping the fundamental cultural norms and boundaries across this Earth and any spirit filled believer with a pulse understands this, a very malevolent spirit with malicious intent toward us is approaching from all directions, the spirit of anti-Christ at work in the world.
“The law and the prophets were until John . . “ Luke 16:16
If you believe as Jesus says there was a time for the “law and the Prophets” then there was also a time -before the Law and the Prophets,
And still a yet future time coming when Jesus will claim his inheritance as we’re shown in multiple passages:
“And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.” Zechariah 2:12
Jesus is taking his authority using the very Laws and Ordinances which were implemented upon the physical Earth which allowed him to come in a Holy manner (in the flesh) and then to be be rejected by Israel (in the flesh) who then purchased the Gentiles into the Kingdom of Heaven (by the Spirit) was then caught up to God and to his Throne and then ultimately provides that very mechanism to redeem the physical creation during the restoration of all things (a future Jubilee)
This is done to legally reclaim his inheritance which was stolen from him:
“Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill: And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.” Isaiah Chapter 5:1-7
Jesus came to do the will of his Father to proclaim his fathers ownership, but was rejected, he was the legal heir and the wicked tenets stole it from him, it was done in a green day in the middle of a week and at the appointed time,
“Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; perhaps they will respect him.’ But when the tenants saw him, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Let us kill him, so that the inheritance may be ours.” Luke 20:13-15
Satan accuses the brethren today in Heaven, but will be cast down to the Earth knowing he has a short time as we’re shown in revelation Chapter 12,
Peter speaks of Jesus: “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” Acts 3:21 (Jubilee)
But unlike the first time, when Jesus declared the Jubilee reading from Isaiah Chapter 61 and stopped before reading ‘and the day of vengeance of our God’ because it was not yet the set time for vengeance,
A future time of recompense is coming upon the whole Earth, including upon those ‘who say they are Jews and are not’ that we’re told about in Revelation Chapter 2. The Lord will restore Israel the second time as we’re shown in Isaiah Chapter 11, the first restoration was from the Babylonian captivity that set so many things into motion prophetically and timing-wise.
A time of testing is coming upon ALL the world, this coincides with the transgressors (Israel) coming to the full (the fullness of time as shown in Leviticus Chapter 25 for transgressing the Law)
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” Revelation 3:10
I believe Jesus will read again:
“For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.” Isaiah 63:4 (a future Jubilee is come)
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake. Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep. And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake.”
Please take note of the first sentence. No one knows when the end will come and we are NOT to set dates.
You have NO idea when Jesus will come, so why are you making up a date?
There is a lot of talk of Rev 12 fulfillment on Sept 23 2017.
What say you?
Correct. And after Titus won the battle for Jerusalem in AD 70, the future emperor and his troops set up their standards within what remained of the Temple, and offered sacrifices to them. It’s in Josephus.
I’ve often thought FR needs a timer button that can be set to ping folks back to old threads. So many threads involve predictions that folks disagree about, no one seems to bump them years after to admit they were wrong or to remind folks they were right about it. All those Palin running/not running threads are a good example.
Freegards
CrimsonTidegirl,
If you would have bothered to read my article, you would have found that I agree with you. No man knows the day or hour of the coming of the Son of Man.
Hold your tongue until you have actually read what I wrote.
Proverbs 18:13
To answer before listening—
that is folly and shame.
quote-Another pastor on staff at this church frequently closed his sermons beseeching Jesus to come soon (Revelation 1:1; 22:20). I queried the pastor about this and he said, “Well, Jesus is always coming soon.” Good grief. Some Christians have been saying that for 2000 years.
2 Peter
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Hebrews 6 stumbles many a pastor.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
“We are living in the last days and Jesus is coming soon.”
And so it has been since 33 AD.
In Revelation, it seems to infer that people have no idea what is going on. My theory is that the Bible has been largely eradicated from the world by that time.
Don’t cloud the issue with facts
See my reply to CrimsonTideGirl at 31.
“But some doubted”
Where His coming? Since the father’s fell asleep, etc....
He’s coming. Israel was not in their land in 33 A.D.
He’s coming but we won’t know when until He comes. It’s not something I worry about.
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