How to Think About Luther?

Crisis Magazine ^ | July 12, 2017 | James Kalb

[Syncro]

>>The priesthood of all believers is a Lutheran doctrine.

I am fully aware of that. Did I imply that I wasn’t?

What a ridiculous discussion.

The priesthood of all believers is a God thing.

A Biblical truth.

From the 1st century.

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

No denomination 'owns' what is in the Bible.

The two of you might want to read the Whole Chapter

It's always best to familiarize yourselves with the Bible before making statements that don't lineup with God's Word.

[fortes fortuna juvat]

>> It’s always best to familiarize yourselves with the Bible before making statements that don’t lineup with God’s Word.

I’m fully aware of 1 Peter 2. And I’m also aware that although ML preached the verse in question as a fundamental doctrine, he later lamented the fact that because of it every milkmaid and farmhand thought they could rightly interpret the Scriptures.

[HLPhat]

"The priesthood of all believers"

Back circa 1972 there was a sort of system of checks and balances in the LCMS formed by the corporate body of Christ in the Church who were formally educated by called teachers - teachers who taught the Word to the body whose membership were encourage to always question the authority of "leadership", including teachers and pastors, against the Word.

Truth - sought through prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit by the fellowship of Christ's body in the Word.

It made a lot of sense in the context of the 70s - a culture infested by cults led by wolves like Manson and Jones and others.

Unfortunately today the LCMS has generally lost its network of schools and teachers - and the vacuum has been filled by a central authoritarianism that tends to prefer the defense of dogma over the seeking of Truth.

I think Jesus, Luther, Jefferson, Merton, and Einstein were on the same page: 

"Truth is great and will prevail"

"EDUCATE THE COMMON PEOPLE"

[metmom]

I’m fully aware of 1 Peter 2. And I’m also aware that although ML preached the verse in question as a fundamental doctrine, he later lamented the fact that because of it every milkmaid and farmhand thought they could rightly interpret the Scriptures.

Any believer has the Holy Spirit living in them and the Holy Spirit guides men into all truth.

So just what IS the *right* way to interpret Scripture?

And just who decides that they're the appointed ones who get to tell everyone else what that *right* way is?

And how do they know it's right?

[Syncro]

...ML preached the verse in question as a fundamental doctrine, he later lamented the fact that because of it every milkmaid and farmhand thought they could rightly interpret the Scriptures

That's a pretty bold statement, an opinion stated as if it is a fact, especially the "every" adjective.

Are you a Catholic?

I am neither a Catholic or Lutheran but a Christian.

Although I am a layperson, as milkmaids and farmhands are, (the latter which I have been in the past) but have never attempted to interpret the Scriptures.

That is the job of the Holy Spirit.

As it was back in Luther's time.

I've noticed that OTC (other than Catholic) Christians are often accused of having their own interpretation of Scripture (and declared that they are "protestants") when in fact Christians follow the leading of the Holy Spirit for that job.

Please post proof of your statement, I do not believe it is accurate.

[ebb tide]

That is the job of the Holy Spirit.

As it was back in Luther's time.

You're equating the Holy Ghost with Luther? Unbelievable.

[Syncro]

That is the job of the Holy Spirit.

As it was back in Luther's time.

You're equating the Holy Ghost with Luther? Unbelievable.

What is unbelieveable is your reading comprehension and your ability to twist my words into something you can accuse me of and complain about.

Nice try.

"Luther's time" has nothing to do with Luther except to give a time frame. Period.

The Holy Spirit has always been the guide for understanding Scriptures. From Day One until infinity.

The Holy Spirit interprets Scripture.

Scripture interprets Scripture.

Jesus is The Word.

[ebb tide]

The Holy Ghost has called me by the gospel and illuminated me with his gifts and sanctified and preserved me in the true faith.

Martin Luther

[Syncro]

Well that’s great

Even though he was a Catholic he relied on the Holy Spirit rather than the doctrines of Catholicism.

That must be why he was so determined to bring Catholicism back in line with what Christians always believed.

I do not study Luther or obsess over his teachings. Nor do most Christians

[Syncro]

You’re equating the Holy Ghost with Luther? Unbelievable.

[metmom]

The Holy Ghost has called me by the gospel and illuminated me with his gifts and sanctified and preserved me in the true faith.

That is true of EVERY believer.

Every believer can make that statement.

[Syncro]

Amen

And have been living it ever since God sent His Holy Spirit to Christians in the 1st century

[metmom]

John 6:44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Corinthians 12:8-11 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.

[fortes fortuna juvat]

>>Any believer has the Holy Spirit living in them and the Holy Spirit guides men into all truth.

The problem with that idea is that there are countless confirmed believers who apparently are NOT being guided into all truth because their beliefs regarding various Scriptures directly contradict the beliefs of other believers.

[metmom]

The problem with that idea is that there are countless confirmed believers who apparently are NOT being guided into all truth because their beliefs regarding various Scriptures directly contradict the beliefs of other believers.

Scripture is true whether everyone agrees with it or not.

The Holy Spirit DOES guide all believers into all truth.

Whether they accept it or not is their business but their not accepting it does NOT negate the truth of the Scripture as given us by Jesus.

[fortes fortuna juvat]

>> Whether they accept it or not is their business but their not accepting it does NOT negate the truth of the Scripture as given us by Jesus.

Of course, but what I’m saying is that when two people read a verse of Scripture and one understands it to say one thing and the other person concludes it is saying something quite different, at least one of them have it WRONG. And, possibly BOTH of them have it wrong. You, for example, probably THINK you know exactly what is meant by every verse you read, but other readers may disagree with what you think you know, AND for all you know they may be right and you may be wrong. What you should think about is that there are Bible “scholars” who spend their lives “searching” the Scriptures and completely disagree with one another on what the meaning of various verses actually is.

[metmom]

That does not negate or invalidate the statement made in Scripture that the Holy Spirit will guide believers into all truth.

And I don’t care is someone is in the Who’s Who of Bible Scholars. They can be just as wrong as anyone else if the Holy spirit is not guiding them. Just because they are *Bible Scholars* does not mean the Holy Spirit is involved in their studies.

FWIW, every person on the planet has their own personal interpretation of Scripture, even Catholics who claim that they follow the Church’s. They have decided to let someone do their thinking for them and accept what is handed to them as right. In the end, it’s STILL a personal decision by the individual of what is truth and what it not and what it a correct interpretation and what is not.

[fortes fortuna juvat]

>> They can be just as wrong as anyone else if the Holy spirit is not guiding them.

Precisely so. Therefore I need your best explanation as to just how you, or anyone else for that matter, can know with absolute certainty who’s WRONG, who’s RIGHT, and who’s being guided by the Holy Ghost or just THINKS they’re being guided by Him?

Clear and unambiguous answer, PLEASE.