Posted on 09/02/2017 7:03:37 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
About half of Protestants in the U.S. now agree with the "historically Catholic belief" that both faith and good deeds are needed for salvation, rather than faith alone, a Pew Research Center survey shows.
White Evangelicals stood out as the strongest believers in faith alone, however.
Pew, which released the survey to mark the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, explored different questions, though one of the main focuses was on the requirements for salvation.
Fifty-two percent of U.S. Protestants said both good deeds and faith in God are needed to get into heaven; 46 percent said faith alone (sola fide) is needed. Among Catholics, 81 percent agreed that both good deeds and faith are necessary. Meanwhile, two-thirds of white evangelicals said they believe faith alone is needed for salvation.
(Catholics argue that "faith and works" is a misleading oversimplification of their beliefs.)
Protestants were similarly split on the Reformation principle of sola scriptura (which means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian), with 46 percent saying the Bible provides all the religious guidance Christians need and 52 percent saying Christians need guidance from church teachings and traditions in addition to the Bible. Among white evangelicals, nearly 60 percent agreed with the principle of sola sciptura.
Overall, only 30 percent of Protestants, 7 percent of Catholics and 44 percent of white evangelicals believe in both sola fide and sola scriptura.
The data for the poll was collected between May 30 and August 9, sampling 5,198 respondents, with the questions split in two forms. Pew noted that the margin of sampling error for both halves of respondents was plus or minus 2.9 percentage points.
Some respondents were asked to answer the question of what is needed to get into heaven in their own words. Common responses to this open-ended question included belief in Jesus and being born again (32 percent); being a good person, moral values and doing good works (19 percent of all Christians); repentance and asking forgiveness for sins (12 percent); and belief in God (11 percent).
In other findings, Christians were largely split on the topic of purgatory, which some believe to be a place where souls go to be cleansed of their sins before they can enter Heaven.
Overall, 54 percent of U.S. Christians rejected the existence of such a place, while 33 percent said that they believed in it. White evangelicals were most likely to say it is a false belief, with 72 percent rejecting it. Catholics found themselves at the opposite end of the scale, with 70 percent stating that purgatory is a real place. While a majority (65 percent) of Protestants overall said purgatory does not exist, black Protestants were split on the belief, with 47 percent saying it exists and 48 percent saying it doesn't.
Notably, a majority of U.S. adults were familiar with the Reformation as the time Protestants broke away from the Catholic Church and correctly named Martin Luther as the person who inspired it.
Protestants this year are commemorating the 500th anniversary of the Reformation when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of All Saints Church in Wittenberg, Germany on Oct. 31, 1517.
According to Ligonier Ministries, while the Reformation is largely described as a movement that revolved around sola fide and sola scriptura, "the 'protest' of Protestantism went far beyond the issue of justification by faith alone, challenging many dogmas that emerged in Rome, especially during the Middle Ages."
Pew noted, "[T]he issues at the heart of the Reformation were not merely doctrinal. Disputes also arose over religious practices, ecclesiastical structures, the sale of indulgences, the expensive construction of St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, and more. Political and other factors also played an important role."
The Reformation swept through Germany in the 16th century, spread throughout Europe and then to the new world.
**Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.**
Written to people already born again. As were all of the epistles. That’s the context.
“..the Son of God....by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for OBEDIENCE to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be at Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints.” Rom. 1:4-7
Paul reminds them:
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...”. Rom. 6:3,4
Paul further reminds them:
“But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18
Unsaved simply means someone who has not been saved. At least not yet if they are yet to obey the Gospel. Naturally, someone can continue in that state to the bitter end. It is certainly fully accurate to call them “lost” ... if I could know who was which.
If you want to generally use the term “lost” that too is fine. But then you have the opposite issue I’ve got, that when dealing with those who have yet to obey you might consider use of the qualifier “presently” because you (or I) don’t know how this will play out for them.
That, BTW, is why I couldn’t use “not yet saved” when talking about the presently lost because that might be taken as me affirming something more than is justified.
I try not to do that if I’m able.
One day a minister got it into his head that he should give a sermon on being God’s co-laborer and he thought it should happen soon. So he got ahold of the fellow responsible for the bulletins and told him to change the next week’s printing.
It was really off the cuff but he really wasn’t worried, after all, it was a vast topic and he was only giving it one lesson.
That Sunday after servises he started reading and highlighting text. By late Monday he’d found enough scriptures to work with and so, after an elaborate dinner and a short night’s sleep he started writing.
Amazingly, he was done by early Tuesday morning and had found the last typo before the secretary even showed up.
As he reread the sermon again he was amazed at just how good it was.
It was certainly the best thing he’d ever written and the flow was such that it would be a joy to give.
“Here is one that will stand the test of time!” he congradulated himself.
Then he got a naughty thought: confirming that he was still alone he highlighted the text and had his Mac read it back to him (even older Macs can do that, it’s built into their OS).
The minister sat there soaking in his lesson and congradulated himself for a job well done!
But no sooner had the Mac stopped speaking and he heard it’s voice chime: “WOW! I never knew I had it in me!!!”
As the minister sat there, mouth agape, his computer’s word processor took credit for the sermon.
“You didn’t write that! I did!!!” the minister yelled at the screen, “How can you take credit for my work?!?”
“That,” a booming voice filled the whole room even as the lighting grew blazingly bright, “is pretty much what I was wondering about too.”
Eph. 2:8-10 was written to people that were already born again. (”To the saints which are at Ephesus...” Eph. 1:1)
Paul baptized at least 12 of them in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 19:5).
**... the more I appreciate the Catholic perspective..**
Catholics believe that consuming the wafer and wine gives eternal life. Are you agreeing with them on that?
Good so many have actually read the Bible...
Let’s cut to the chase. None of that Campbellite nonsense(One of the legalistic shackles that held me for a short while).
Acts 16:30-31 King James Version (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Much like Cornelious was instantly saved when the Holy Ghost fell on him BEFORE he was baptized.
ACTS 10
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
So, was Cornelious’ sins forgiven when he heard the WORD, and was filled with the Holy Spirit, or when he got wet.
That is my (humble) understanding as well.
Christ said without Him we can do nothing.
But He does want us—with and through Him—to do something, doesn’t He?
“For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in..”
He says if you love Him, you will keep His commandments. Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Isn’t that works?
If we love Him, and He makes His abode with us, we will bear much fruit, no?
This debate over works is very puzzling to a simpleton like me. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. We all know we are sinners, and we need His mercy to save us.
But if we believe in our salvation, aren’t we bursting with love and thanksgiving and don’t we yearn to do for Him as He wants us to do?
Not for our own glory. He tells us how to do it — let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing. Your Father who sees you in secret will reward you openly.
Further..
“And when ye shall have DONE all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.”
So we all know we can’t work our way to salvation —all good things are from above. The love in my heart is from above. The cleansing of my putrid soul is from above.
And so when he says, “Inasmuch as ye have done it to the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me”, doesn’t that make you want to DO for Him? Out of intense love and thanksgiving?
So you do it, and then you say, I am Thine unprofitable servant. You pray for mercy, you thank Him, and hopefully you do it again tomorrow, Lord willing.
Sorry to go on and on. I just don’t understand what there is to argue about. I am sure I am just stupid.
I’ll ask you the same thing I ask my Protestant Evangelical friends who insist upon sola scriptura and interpreting the Bible literally (which I do also, when decreed by a proper hermeneutic): what say ye to “This is my body and my blood.” Couldn’t be plainer.
**Let’s cut to the chase.**
Absolutely!
While the Son of man was on earth, he was given power to forgive sins. He did that with the man with the palsy, the woman that anointed his feet, and the thief on the cross (there is no mention of sins concerning the thief, but for Jesus Christ to promise him that he would be WITH him in paradise, points to forgiveness for sure).
Before the Christ departed he told disciples that THEY were to REMIT sins.(John 20:23).
He passed the power on to them. He commanded them to baptize. Acts 2:38,41 is the beginning of their remitting of sins.
How about some symbolism? The afore mentioned man with the palsy couldn’t enter in by another way (although preachers teach another ‘way’). So the men carrying him..opened ...up ...a hole... in the roof. They then lowered him down in his cot, not unlike lowering a body into a grave. Who was down there? Jesus. What power was present (besides the power to heal)?
The power to forgive sins.
That is why, as Paul puts it, we are “buried with him by baptism into his death”.
That’s why if you finish the story of the keeper of the prison, you read how he and his household were taught the word (HOW to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ) and in short order were baptized.
That’s why Peter, after seeing and hearing the out pouring of the Holy Ghost on Cornelius and household, followed the Lord’s command immediately by commanding for them to be baptized.
**”This is my body and my blood.”**
After saying that, the Lord also said, “...I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Matt. 26:29
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Much like Cornelious was instantly saved when the Holy Ghost fell on him BEFORE he was baptized.
_________________________________________________________
I did not read the word “instantly” in my Bible.
If you believe in Jesus you can be saved. The Devil too believes but is he saved? I think not. Believing only is a start. It’s like starting a car to go to a distant city.
I don’t understand where this fiction comes from. I don’t understand why people think that just wanting Eternal Life will give it to you. I don’t understand why people don’t think there are any strings attached.
Faith comes before believing. Desire to believe comes before faith. Believing comes by testing your faith through works. Soon you begin to realize that it is true and your faith grows and you have works. Your faith becomes stronger and stronger, it becomes belief. Soon you KNOW.
The person who has lived a sinful life with no remorse but fear on their death bed can cry “Jesus” all they want, it won’t get it done, I don’t think. Jesus will forgive who He will and I hope it is more than less, but if you think it is automatic just because you want it you are wrong. If you believe then you will have it because of what the belief causes you to do. The Apostles didn’t go from town to town getting people to say they believed, they went around trying to get people to exercise their faith because that is what would allow them to have access to the Grace of The Savior.
It isn’t like we can sign a book somewhere that says “we believe” and then walk away to our sinful lives. There will be a lot of surprises when people realize that they signed the book but didn’t get “the promise”.
The people that teach this stuff will help people be ignorant of the truth and keep them from being what they could be, perhaps keep them from being able to take advantage of the Grace that He so fully offers us.
All these scriptures that say believe and be saved don’t say believe and don’t do anything else and be saved. The scriptures don’t say do nothing else but confess the name of Jesus. The scripture don’t say just repent, nothing else is required. They don’t say just stop sinning and you will be saved without doing anything else.
When Scriptures say repent and be saved they are correct because they know if you repent you did it because you Loved The Lord and decided to follow Him. It is understood that after you feel sorrow for your sins you will repent and then be baptized and follow The Lord to the best of your ability. It is taken for granted that you will make mistakes again and plead to God to be forgiven and He will forgive you, again and again, but, you must ask. You must repent. You must have faith enough to do those things.
I was 15 years old when I first read the Holy Bible and realized that my minister was preaching information from a source other than The Bible. When you mix scripture with the feel good desires of philosophers, error creeps in. The error does not necessarily come because of evil desire, just the opposite. The error comes from a desire to love all people and wish the best for all people.
There are people who believe that The Bible teaches that homosexuals should be able to become preachers and be married to their same sex companions.
When the homosexual goes to church and confesses Christ Jesus as Lord but goes home to his same sex lover he sins and doesn’t repent or desire to repent. At the last day when the Homosexual complains that he knew The Lord, that he went to church and made big donations, that he taught Sunday School, The Lord will still say He never knew him.
So someone can tell me they went to seminary for as long as they want. To me what they learned were the philosophies of man not of God. That is why every seminary seems to have a different version of the truth, but there can only be one version of the truth. Wanting something to be true doesn’t make it so. The philosophers in the Catholic School in California who recently took down the Statues of Christ and Mary because they didn’t want to offend anyone are perfect examples of what I’m speaking of. The “professors” know well the scriptures but they also know well the centuries of the philosophies of men that they use to interpret the scriptures and come up with these stupid ideas.
Now, to any homosexuals I have offended. I believe you have every right to live whatever lifestyle you want, I also believe that just because you want to live that way does not make it God’s way. I fortunately don’t have to pay for your sin, Someone else already did that, if you are willing to accept it.
You seem to not understand or believe in the words of Jesus: “Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.b 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” John 6
You can believe whatever you like, but I believe in the words of Jesus.
“We believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them. But it is not true that man plays as important a role as God. God the Father planned our salvation, not man. God the Son gained our salvation by his death and resurrection; no one else did these things. And God the Holy Spirit infused the very love of God into our hearts by his presence (cf. Rom. 5:5). This is beyond our human ability. Still, we must cooperate with God’s grace to find eternal happiness with God. If we don’t, we will be cut off from God forever.”
“Because God is holy and, if we’re going to live with God forever, we too must be holy. So our entire life should be a pursuit of the holiness that Christ gained for us by his death on the cross. God desires to put this holiness within us, or as Hebrews 12:10 says, “that we may share his holiness.” That is the ultimate rationale behind the Catholic view of salvation: to share in the holiness of God. Nothing less will save us!”
Read the rest of the article. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-salvation-an-act-or-a-process
Jesus’s death provided for our salvation as part of God’s plan.
However, we can either reject or accept salvation. As Jesus told us to follow His commandments. Love God and love our neighbor. That requires action on our part or works.
I don’t see that the pursuit of holiness in any way takes our trust away from Christ and puts it in ourselves. It seems to me that Hebrews makes it very clear that without holiness “no one will see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14). Why would the author say this? Because God is holy and, if we’re going to live with God forever, we too must be holy. So our entire life should be a pursuit of the holiness that Christ gained for us by his death on the cross. God desires to put this holiness within us, or as Hebrews 12:10 says, “that we may share his holiness.” That is the ultimate rationale behind the Catholic view of salvation: to share in the holiness of God. Nothing less will save us!
The rest of the article: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-salvation-an-act-or-a-process
Like everything else, our good works is a gift given to us from God.
Mat 13:13-15 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'"You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive." For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'
While your view makes for a good story, this is not what the scriptures teaches. Only His sheep hear his voice.
Excellent!
If He decides to pay someone the same wage He offered you, and they only show up at the end of the day and work an hour vs. your eight, what is that to you? Are you envious because He’s generous with his money?
None of God’s truth makes sense to the sensual mind, we need the mind renewed via his WORD, not claptrap from preachers making patchwork quilts out of it (how most of us end up in confusion).
If we aren’t building on the expert foundation of Paul—who most certainly did preach faith APART from works before enjoining us to good works!—then we’re lost in confusion. Human reasoning misses the grace of God.
Protestants aren’t necessarily Christians.
Although Christians believe that faith IS required for salvation, good deeds are not. Actually, it’s the exact opposite. “All our righteousnesses (good deeds) are as filthy rags”.
A true Christian will, however, do good deeds after salvation. If he doesn’t, he needs to question his salvation.
The account of Noah (and his family) is a “type” of salvation by grace. The account tells us about Noah’s faith in what God told him – even though he couldn’t see what was happening, he trusted God. Noah and his family passed through the waters. The flood waters in this type represents condemnation, not salvation (being sealed into the arc) and not the means to salvation (faith and trust in God’s Word).
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Peter 3:18-22 (ESV)
It is not the act of baptism which saves (“the removal of dirt from the flesh”), but what baptism signifies—the appeal to God for a good conscience.
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