Posted on 04/23/2018 9:24:19 PM PDT by Sontagged
One of the core beliefs at Bethel Church in Redding, California, is the need for new revelation from God, which is in contrast to the so-called old revelation of the Bible as it has been understood for the past 2,000 years.
New revelation can refer to many different things.
It includes knowledge about what’s currently taking place in heaven and new interpretations of Scripture that are based on direct revelation from the Holy Spirit, apart from a historical and grammatical hermeneutic.
It also includes what Johnson calls “new revelation of Jesus.”
And it includes creative ideas–such as fresh music lyrics that will result in mass conversions to Christianity and breakthrough inventions in science and medicine.
However, Bethel’s teachings about the need for new revelation inevitably shift the focus away from the written Word of God in Scripture, insofar as it has been understood for the past two millennia.
Their teachings also place Bethel outside of historic Protestant Christianity, based on the 16th century Protestant Reformation, which has taught that the church is to look to Scripture–not new revelations–for its beliefs and practices.
On this note, consider that even Pentecostals and charismatics–who believe in present-day miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as the gift of prophecy–have held that the Bible contains all that is necessary for living the Christian life. See, for example, a position paper published by the Assemblies of God—the world’s largest Pentecostal denomination—which upholds the sufficiency of Scripture.
It’s titled “The Inspiration, Inerrancy, and Authority of Scripture.” And see the post written by charismatic theologian Wayne Grudem titled “The Bible is enough.”
But, clearly, Bethel leaders disagree that the Bible is enough. To show you what Bethel teaches about new revelation, take a look at these words written by its senior leader, Bill Johnson.
Bill Johnson On The Need For New Revelation
“I’m convinced that the pace of revelation will increase very rapidly in these last hours of history…. That acceleration of revelation is beginning in our day… ... It’s about the purposes of God being unveiled on the planet. On-going revelation and encounters with the power of God launch us into understanding of things we’ve never understood before.” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 68)
“It is absolutely impossible to live the normal Christian life without receiving regular revelation from God.” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 58)
“The key is to be spiritually discerning–to open our spirit man to direct revelation from God.” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 60)
“We are the most to be pitied if we think we’ve reached the fullness of what God intended for His Church here on earth. All Church history is built on partial revelation. Everything that has happened in the Church over the past 1900 years has fallen short of what the early Church had and lost. Each move of God has been followed by another, just to restore what was forfeited and forgotten. And we still haven’t arrived to the standard that they attained, let alone surpassed it. Yet, not even the early Church fulfilled God’s full intention for His people. That privilege was reserved for those in the last leg of the race. It is our destiny.
As wonderful as our spiritual roots are, they are insufficient. What was good for yesterday is deficient for today. To insist that we stay with what our fathers fought for is to insult our forefathers. They risked all to pursue something fresh and new in God. It’s not that everything must change for us to flow with what God is saying and doing. It’s just that we make too many assumptions about the rightness of what presently exists. Those assumptions blind us to the revelations still contained in Scripture. In reality, what we think of as the normal Christian life cannot hold the weight of what God is about to do.” (When Heaven Invades Earth, Kindle edition, pages 162-163, emphasis mine)
“I am convinced that as His government and Kingdom rule increase on this earth … the Church will receive revelation like we’ve never known…. But first we must learn to hunger for and receive revelation as part of our everyday lives. That revelation will help us to carry out our earthly assignments with greater precision and wisdom.” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 56)
“There are vast resources of revelation in heaven for the areas of education and business, the arts and music, and these resources have yet to be tapped anywhere near to their fullness…. Our job is to tap the revelation of the Lord in our area of talent or gifting so that we can accurately and powerfully reflect the King and His Kingdom.” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 67)
“Presently, every denomination, church, and group seems to have revelation into certain Kingdom matters. Nobody has the whole picture…. But in these last days God is going to release a Spirit of revelation over the Church… We are coming into an hour where there will be a common revelation…. an hour when the people of God will simultaneously hear and see similar revelations, no matter the church or group.” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 68)
“The anointing on a coming generation will be great enough that the natural order of things will no longer apply. With a low-grade anointing and revelation, we have to live by natural principles and restrictions to get spiritual results. But Jesus brings this revelation, which is almost frightening.
He says, ‘Lift up your eyes,’ meaning, ‘With the way you see things right now, you cannot operate on the revelation I want to give you. But there is something available for a coming generation where the anointing is so extreme that every person will be ready for the harvest.'” (The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind, page 153) “Revelation comes piece by piece, layer upon layer, to generation after generation.” (Hosting the Presence, Kindle edition, page 52)
“In this hour the experience will help to open up those portions of Scripture that have been closed to us. No one in their right mind would claim to understand all that is contained in the Bible for us today. Yet to suggest that more is coming causes many to fear. Get over it, so you don’t miss it!” (When Heaven Invades Earth, Kindle edition, pages 104-105)
Allegedly, new revelations will enable Christians to perform greater miracles than those performed by Jesus, reap the greatest harvest of souls in history, and bring God’s kingdom to earth. We wouldn’t want to “miss it,” would we?
But, notably, apostles and prophets like Bethel’s own Bill Johnson and Kris Vallotton are the gatekeepers to these new revelations.
So here’s Bethel Redding’s bottom line on new revelation: you’ve gotta have it, and they got it.
But are you willing to trust their interpretation of what God really means rather than contending for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3)? —– Holly Pivec is the co-author of A New Apostolic Reformation?: A Biblical Response to a Worldwide Movement and God’s Super-Apostles: Encountering the Worldwide Prophets and Apostles Movement. She has a master’s degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University.
What is the 1st hand source that supports these statements/accusations?
If the Ol’ King James was good enough for the Apostle Paul, its good enough for me.
God is good.
God is good.
God is good.
God is good.
God is good.
God is good.
God is good.
God is good.
Repeat 5000 times. Give me a break. Please, take me now.
I’m PM’ing you because I do not want to add to Palin’s problems, which you are unfortunately doing by asking such uninformed questions.
Kundalini is demonic.
No such thing as *side effects* or a *bad trip*.
It’s ALL bad, right to the core.
Speaking generally, there is a difference between adding to the Word of God and an expanded revelation on a given scripture. Is Bill Johnson declaring or teaching anything that "contradicts" scripture? If so, can you cite some of his contradictions.
BTW - I am not an apologist for Bill Johnson; I know little of his ministry.
My questions here are general in nature. In Jesus' day, the Pharisees had a a particular and dogmatic understanding of scripture. By the letter, they were right in their interpretation. However, Jesus interpreted those same scriptures differently, sometimes dramatically.
E.g., "And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him." Mark 9:11-13
The Elias spoken of in scripture was referring to John the Baptist. Revelation of the Word and/or its truth is not always was it seems to be.
““Apparently, CRISPR is in the Bible.”
Ok, I’ll bite. How so?”
Revelation. Mark of the Beast.
The theory of Pastormikeonline.com, Michael Hoggard, goes like this:
Only those who are human are eligible for salvation - not animals or angels, only Adam’s descendants, - of which Eve is included, because they were originally the same person, Eve having been taken out of Adam. Their DNA is the same.
CRISPR changes DNA. Most CRISPR usage combines or inserts DNA of a different species in practice.
If we have CRISPR change our DNA, for any reason, (insert any other DNA of any other species to cure cancer or whatever) the subject person is no longer completely human,
and so is not included in the plan of salvation.
Is NO LONGER eligible.
This is not my theory, but I admit it is a little unnerving to consider.
“Kundalini is demonic.”
Yes, the point is the description of a bad trip is very similar to descriptions of demonic possession (because its the same thing). The ‘gods’ that religions play with may have different names in different cultures.... but they are all fallen angles, demons.
Good questions, but the cite I linked is dedicated to exposing the NAR and Mike Bickle and IHOP and the Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God bilge. Holly does a great job.
FReeper Pastor Bill Randles has written several books on the subject, and like myself, he came out of this movement. Holly is not a charismatic but she does a wonderful and important job in pointing out this growing movement. PastorBillRandles has a website and he has just updated his books. Both authors are very precise in their deconstruction of NAR thinking.
Early on, I focused on one of the LatterRain NAR founders, false prophet Bill Hamon, and quite soon afterwards I was freaked out by the obvious apostasy of the movement at Lakeland Florida with Todd Bentley, Jill Austin, Cindy Jacobs, Rick Joyner, Jim Goll etc. (Jill Austin and Goll’s wife, after being prayed over and fully participating at Lakeland, died terrible and unexpected deaths right afterwards. As I recall, Goll’s wife died at the very end of Lakeland. “Prophetess” Austin died of an exploding intestine, sort of a Herodian death.
This is an evil movement and the Assemblies of God had regularly condemned its theology in the fifties and sixties and through the 1990s and early 2000’s — from the Latter Rain cult to the Vineyard and IHOP movements) but at Lakeland, they hosted Todd Bentley, and that fiasco blew up in their faces.
That’s a bit of my background on it, but you’ll find a lot of stuff on Bill Johnson on both the sites I mentioned.
Right as I was getting out of that movement, someone gave me one of Bethel’s music CDs, you are right on..!
These people think it’s okay with God to do “vain repetitions” until they work themselves into a trance.
Neither of which are okay with the Lord, so it’s not worship, it’s just vain repetition set to trance music.
P.S. I recall playing that CD in my car one day and my Christian mom was listening to one of the songs where the music was quite beautiful ... until (of course) one of the singers did the screaming “HO!” thing that all these NAR people think is “a sign of the Holy Spirit”.
My mom jumped in her seat and said “what was that?!!!” I said: “it’s not worship music!” and turned it off.
You are very correct that this “Kundalini Spirit” or demon has infiltrated the NAR churches.
What exactly, is CRISPR?
Your comments about DNA are interesting because one of the things the folks I know who are into the NAR movement keep talking about is that they now have God’s DNA downloaded into their bodies.
They are allegedly, genetically changed to have holy DNA and therefore not subject to illnesses that run in their families.
So this person I know who clearly has osteoporosis claims that she doesn’t because she now has God’s DNA.
When she goes to the DR and they ask for family history, she tells them, no, no physical afflictions because she considers her DNA to have been changed when she got saved.
so that nobody has to waste their time looking it up.
= = =
I don’t think you meant it like that.
Sorry to see that you so publicly condemn your brother in the Lord, particularly absent concrete examples of your criteria (examples not depending on subjective interpretations of the given quotes presented as objective evaluations).
I can think of many scriptures that would encourage you to tread lightly, or not at all, on the ground you are walking.
You have not demonstrated, as far as I can tell (nor did Holly), any teachings that demonstrate Johnson negating or dismissing the scripture — though we are not to worship the Bible, but the God of the Bible.
Good — be a Berean!
I think it unfair to publicly attack other Christians, as well as a failure to practice clear, multiple biblical admonitions, e.g., “keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” Most Pentecostals or Charismatics I know don’t attack Christians who don’t believe in speaking in tongues, or prophesying, or divine healing, etc., because they accept them as fellow believers even though they disagree with them theologically on many matters of doctrine.
Are you against those practices or manifestations of the Spirit too? Do you practice them (as a vessel of the Holy Spirit, and by His gifting), or consider them unbiblical as well?
I wonder it they also told her that she was now a god.
Follow the money.
Very sorry to see that you have set yourself up as judge and declared Bill Johnson as not a brother in the Lord and therefore excluded from the kingdom of God. I am curious where you get that authority, could you explain (from the Bible, please)?
I did read the article. You are so sure that you understand EXACTLY what Bill Johnson is saying from those quotes that you can label him a damnable heretic?
And yes, I encourage you to walk more fully in those things God has revealed to you (or illuminated from scripture) — however you designate, label, or otherwise articulate or understand the means and methods God communicates truth to you.
No you have decided what someone else believes by some reference to writings you disagree with
No, not that getting into Scripture is a waste of time, but some people expect others to do all their work for them.
I don’t like the attitude of people throwing around references of Scripture as if everyone has the entire Bible memorized.
It’s a courtesy to post the verse along with the reference and that way ONE person does the work, the one making the claim, and not everyone else.
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