Posted on 04/14/2021 12:53:32 AM PDT by Cronos
Well, some of us on this side of doctrine feel that Elsie needs to forget a lot more “Biblical truth” to see and hear what needs to be seen and heard.
That said, Elsie has a much more pleasant even Christian way of discussing differences with cult followers, and he is willing to print truth to his credit. Lot to be said for Elsie on that we agree.
When you pass into Eternity, you are looking for a motel room? As if you are passing through and not staying for the fun?
Now that, must be a scary place to be in. Just waiting to die, sinking into the tomb, without a single ray of hope, for any thought that there might be a beautiful future. That, is a scary place to be.
I can’t believe, I was in that position at one time. No more, however. 😁
I continue to be amazed at the idea General Christianity has with the Bible as the definitive word of God that just so happens to be the author of the Confusion that divides you, and reject any and all ideas that Christ has much more to say, but we aren’t listening so why should he bother. The mere thought that one book of scripture is sufficient is about as secular and illogical as anything I can think of.
You deny the power of God at every turn IMHO by suggesting you know him through The Book when the book tells you his ways are not our ways.
Considering where I live, I have no choice of who I consider to be a mission field😁👍 I am surrounded by Catholics. I can’t get away from them. 😁 I have helped numerous in laws, get out of the Catholic Church. 👍 Unfortunately, we also have other cults here, like Mormonism and Kingdom Hall. Then, there are also home grown cults, like Quiboloy and the Iglesia ni Cristo. The Mormons are not real popular, so they tend to keep a lower profile. Muslims are not well liked in this area either. 👎
I can’t figure out whether this qualifies for a Red Herring category or a Rabbit Hole one.
As in the past, you have figured a way to avoid the question.
I never meant the question to be a red herring or a rabbit hole. In the eternities, which will be our State after the physical death will we be in a position to argue our State or condition or the life we have lived while in mortality. Especially when the books are opened and our life is before us in 8K and digital audio? We are then dependent on the mercy of him who died for our sins. Our mouths will be shut, and the judgement will be his all things being considered. Right or wrong we get to live eternally with the results.
If logic tells you God has said it all, and it’s in the Bible. I suggest that it isn’t the Eternal Father or the Holy Spirit that is whispering that in your ear.
So did I see and recognize the confusion in my Christian world, and know that God cannot be the author of it. Or...
"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:25-27 AV).That His Words are spirit is affirmed by Jesus Himself:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn._6:63 AV).It is there that they are also equated with a fluid that slakes a human's spiritual thirst.
Jesus told His disciples and thus the message to us also that He was going to prepare a place for us and He would come again to gather us to Himself and return tot he Father’s House. Seven or more years after that event He is coming back to planet earth to rescue Israel, destroy the antichrist and set up His kingdom for a 1000 ear reign. And we who He gathered will be returning with Him to reign as priests and king with Him. So yes, just temporary lodgings as the Greek word suggests. If you actually studied the Bible you would have known that. You won’t find it in the Book of Mormon novel of the Pearl of Great scam, er i mean Price, or The Doctrines and Covenants.
He then rose from the Dead.
He told us that if we eat His body and drink His blood we would be saved
Let's repeat a basic Bible lesson:
| 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. |
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that
so, take it up with Jesus who says the above.
The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.
Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ
Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men
On the death-bed the person who repents, believes has accepted God's freely given grace of justification -- note, we do not justify ourselves, nor do we earn this
Let me repeat this
all salvation comes from Christ the Head
or 269 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men
Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved. -- you twist a lot of words to contradict Jesus -- He said this quite clearly, "He who believes AND IS BAPTISED is saved" -- as 1 Pet 3:20-21 reiterates In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you alsonot the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, -- now if you wish to disregard the Bible, that's your choice. Remember, The Glory is to GOD that has saved is in this -- the salvation is by the resurrection of JEsus Christ -- Glory to God, not man
Luke 13:3 [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. -- again, Jesus is very clear. Take Jesus's own words first -- what does He say? "unless you repent, you will perish" -- God gives us the grace to repent yes, but we must accept this grace
John 6:54 -- again, Jesus is very clear. Why try to put words into His mouth? If you have a problem with what Jesus said -- take it up with Him
Matt 25:31-46 --> no one said it's a qualifier. I just pointed it out that it is not faith ALONE that saves
Matt 24:13 --> Why reference Paul for what Jesus has clearly said? He who endureth to the end is saved -- I never said that it is anyone but Jesus who gives us the power to do this --> Why don't you get this into your head before you go accussing folks, I continuously said and say that we are saved by God's grace, we give 100% credit for our ability to repent, to believe, to endure, to share in His body etc --> I only said it is not faith ALONE, but GRACE ALONE that saves us --> read before accusing this is what Jesus said
Isn't Jesus pretty clear? you MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE
Do you believe Jesus's words or not?
...correct any things that I find are against what the Bible appears to teach.
That said, I'll admit there are many things that folks of good intention can disagree about in the Good Book.
Disagree and darn near come to blows over even!
That "...see thru a glass darkly..."phrase is surely true!
Note that eating the body and blood during the Eucharist is not the same as if someone hacked off a piece of meat off of Jesus’s earthly body and cannibalized his flesh. Christ is not harmed by our consumption of him in the Eucharist. So the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is unique.
Christ’s body is in this sacrament as in a place. Because, to be in a place definitively or circumscriptively belongs to being in a place. But Christ’s body seems to be definitively in this sacrament, because it is so present where the species of the bread and wine are, that it is nowhere else upon the altar: likewise it seems to be there circumscriptively, because it is so contained under the species of the consecrated host, that it neither exceeds it nor is exceeded by it. Therefore Christ’s body is in this sacrament as in a place.
Further, the place of the bread and wine is not empty, because nature abhors a vacuum; nor is the substance of the bread there, as stated above (III:75:2); but only the body of Christ is there. Consequently the body of Christ fills that place. But whatever fills a place is there locally. Therefore the body of Christ is in this sacrament locally.
Last night I realized it’s been DECADES since I’ve had any good liver and onions!
Perhaps you ought to actually read the Bible rather than excerpts?
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Having said, Believe for the works’ sake, our Lord goes on to declare that He can do much greater than these, and what is more wonderful, give others the power of working them
But what are these greater works? Is it that the shadow of the Apostles, as they passed, by, healed the sick? It is indeed a greater thing that a shadow should heal, than that the border of a garment should. Nevertheless, by works here our Lord refers to His words. For when He says, My Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works, what are these works but the words which He spoke? And the fruit of those words was their faith. But these were but few converts in comparison with what those disciples made afterwards by their preaching: they converted the Gentiles to the faith. Did not the rich man go away sorrowful from His words? And yet that which one did not do at His own exhortation, many did afterwards when He preached through the disciples. He did greater works when preached by the believing, than when speaking to men’s ears. (lxxii. 2). Still these greater works He did by His Apostles, whereas He includes others besides them, when He says, He that believeth on Me. Are we not to compute any one among the believers in Christ, who does not do greater works than Christ? This sounds harsh if not explained. The Apostle says, To him that believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom. 4:5) By this work then we shall do the works of Christ, the very believing in Christ being the work of Christ, for He worketh this in us, though not without us. Attend then’; He that believeth on Me, the works that I do, shall he do also. First I do them, then he will do them: I do them, that he may do them. Do what works but this, viz. that a man, from being a sinner, become just? which thing Christ worketh in us, though not without us. This in truth I call a greater work to do, than to create the heaven and the earth; for heaven and earth shall pass away, but the salvation and justification of the predestinated shall remain. (c. 3.). However, the Angels in heaven are the work of Christ; shall he who worketh with Christ for his own justification, do greater even than these? Judge any one which be the greater work, to create the just, or to justify the ungodly? At least, if both be of equal power, the latter hath more of mercy. But it is not necessary to understand all the works of Christ, when He says, greater works than these shall he do. These perhaps refers to the works He had done that hour. He had then been instructing them in the faith1. And surely it is a less work to preach righteousness, which He did without us, than to justify the ungodly, which He so does in us, as that we do it ourselves. Great things truly did our Lord promise His people, when He went to His Father: Because I go unto My Father.
All the miracles that they did, He did: the hand of the Lord was with them.
The revelation however of these hidden things was a mark of His Divinity: hence the meaning of what follows; And if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before; supply, What will ye say? He said the same to Nathanael, Because I said to thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? Thou shalt see greater things than these. He does not add difficulty to difficulty, but to convince them by the number and greatness of His doctrines. For if He had merely said that He came down from heaven, without adding any thing further, he would have offended His hearers more; but by saying that His flesh is the life of the world, and that as He was sent by the living Father, so He liveth by the Father; and at last by adding that He came down from heaven, He removed all doubt. Nor does He mean to scandalize His disciples, but rather to remove their scandal. For so long as they thought Him the Son of Joseph, they could not receive His doctrines; but if they once believed that He had come down from heaven, and would ascend thither, they would be much more willing and able to admit them.
wita,
Don’t make it complicated.
Belief - entrusting ourselves to *Christ’s death alone* as payment for our sins saves.
The unsaved rely on anything but Christ to earn or be worthy of salvation - rituals, good works, special beads or medals, or a particular church, etc.
None of that saves.
“ And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
(I John 5:11-13)
Simple as that.
Belief (saving faith) in God’s provision has always been what saves.
Not intellectual assent, but fully entrusting ourselves in His payment on our behalf.
“Then Abraham believed in the LORD; and He credited it to him as righteousness.”
So I hesitate to ask if you outright reject the Book of James or how you explain it? It might also have something to do with the word saved, and it’s definition.
99+% experience I have is from folks here on FR.
While I lived next door to a Catholic family from 1954 'til 2004, we never talked about religion. In fact, it's only the last 25 years or so that I've been any sort of 'christian' that you'd want to take any advice or teaching from; by looking at how I was living.
Praise be to GOD that HIS love is INFINITE towards me.
“ The mere thought that one book of scripture is sufficient is about as secular and illogical as anything I can think of.”
66 books - each inspired by the Holy Spirit, that contain all we need for salvation and Christian maturity.
Beyond that is adding to what God has done in the long sweep of history, by adding additional requirements, rituals, etc. none of which save.
And this is why every cult adds a book.
And why cults attempt to move people from objective truth to subjective feelings.
Nice post, Rdmd. Lots of problems come with a person believing that he can’t know that he’s saved until after he dies – which is not the message of Scripture – and not the least of which is being an ineffective witness to the saving grace of Christ Jesus. “I think I might be saved in the end” cannot convey the life-changing and life-redeeming message of the cross, as you aptly show in your posts. Were I to hear such a vague and unclear message, it would quickly send me off in another direction looking for a sure salvation in the here and now, and in the eternal, because I would know that I didn’t have that in the message being presented me with a “maybe.” To boot, that message of uncertainty makes God seem incapable and ignorant.
I pray that all who hear such a confusing “witness” find and believe the simple, God-saving gospel of Our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.
Blessings, Rdmd.
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