Your comment: “In that verse, both terms, water and spirit, are figurative terms referring to His Word(s) alone, nothing else. And you (who believe/say that one must wait until death to learn whether one is saved or not), cannot have been born again, or your tune would be quite different.”
Just because you say that “water and spirit are figurative” does not make it make it so.
John 3:22: Immediately after Jesus’ “born again” discourse to Nicodemus, what does He do? “… Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.”
John 4:1-2: Jesus’ disciples then begin to baptize at Jesus’ command. It appears from the text, Jesus most likely only baptized his disciples and then they baptized everyone else.
In summary, Jesus was baptized, transformed the “baptismal” waters, and then gave his famous “born again” discourse. He then baptized before commissioning the apostles to go out and baptize. To deny Jesus was teaching us about baptism in John 3:3-5 is to ignore the clear biblical context.
For you say “which act was counted as “Christian baptism”—but Scripturally invalid and no more saving than your futile Romanist paedobaptist attemp at spiritual regeneration.”
You ignore what Jesus told us “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16;16 and Jesus instructions to His Catholic Church “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 28:19
The vast majority of Christians recognize the possibility of losing one’s salvation. This is clearly taught in multiple Bible passages.
In John 5:24, Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment but has passed from death to life.” This refers to a spiritual transfer from the Old Covenant to the blessings of the New Covenant. Believers are rescued from the fallen family of Adam and reinstated in the divine family of God.
A less elegant translation of the first part of this would be, “the one hearing my word and believing him who sent me” has eternal life. In this case, the Greek present participles for “hearing” (akouōn) and “believing” (pisteuōn) indicate an ongoing action.
Therefore, if one were to stop hearing Jesus’ word and to stop believing the one who sent him, one would lose eternal life and pass back from life to death.
Salvation is an ongoing process and not a once and done claim that you believe. We need to be in the state of grace when we die for our eternal salvation.
Perhaps you are like the pharisees in that you only accept your personal opinions without understanding God’s teaching?
Thank you for answering the question on “born again” or “born anew” (Catholic Bible). I hope that the Catholic understanding is clear.
“ We need to be in the state of grace when we die for our eternal salvation.
Well since you’re Roman, I guess that’s what your religion teaches. Plus indulgences, repetition of prayers, holy water, pantheon of demigods and the head demigoddess, and so much more.
But for the saved believer, every sin has already been included on the cross, he is sealed to the day of redemption - the Spirit given as a down payment, held in the hand of Christ, and positionally seated in the heavenlies with Him now… and so much more.
I picked the better biblical option, the second choice.
I am saved.
I am being transformed on earth.
I will be translated to be like Him when I see Him.
I will stand at the Bema seat to give an account of my life -.where my works done after the new birth are tested by fire.
Gold and silver will remain.
“He himself will be saved.”
Sucks to be Roman. But it’s a choice.
That's right, I didn't make it so. Jesus made it so, and taught by His Word, which throughout illustrates the principle to the born-again discerner, have easily grasped it as consistent with the context. But your ignorant false religious dogma precludes such recognition. I can;t help that.
And so it is for the rest of your presumptuous observations in the remainder of this post of yours. If I thought you were teachable, I would mend your mistakes. But experience shows otherwise, so I'll just ignore your naivete.
Haven't ignored it at all Cronos. Your misinterpretation is abysmal:
“He who believes and is baptized in the Spirit at the moment of salvation will be saved; but he who does not believewith a saving trust will be condemned. Mark 16;16
There are more than one baptisms [actually seven (click here)]; including the one above, instantaneous and invisible at the very second that salvation/justification/sanctification occurred, once for all time, in the Spirit; and afterward the public visible ritual induction into the Company of the local church conferred by water immersion, and itself not salvific:
and Jesus instructions to His Catholic Church first generation of Apostle.disciplers "baptizingin water deep enough to drown themrecruited, instructed, and regenerated disciples inby the delegated authority the namesingular, neuter of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19
In this Jesus is talking about the God-Head, Whose Name in the singular is in Hebrew "Jehovah Elohim"--one title, uniplural, not three.
Cronos, you are so unschooled in these things that it could make one weep, if it was not a deliberate ostrich-type ignorance.
Salvation is an ongoing process and not a once and done claim that you believe.
Wrong! You are so undiscipled in this access. What you are describing here is NOT salvation. It is progressive sanctification, the process of spiritual growth from "brephos" (new-spiritual-borne babe in Christ; 1 Pet. 2:2); to ) to "naypios" (diapered infant, untrainable, unskilful in the word of rightousness; Heb. 5:13); to "paedion" (a child able to execute an order, teachable, able to talk with God; 1 Jn. 2:13); to "neaniskos" (young adult, have overcome the wicked one; 1 Jn. 2:13, 14)' to "teleios" (fully mature, tackle tough doctrinal problems, able to discern both good and evil); and finally "pater" having surmounted the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, loving the aspect of life with the Heavenly Father and His Son; loving not the world or the things of the world; and knowing God's Word from the time it was progressively revealed, through its completion, and its history with people ever since; an elder able to gain the respect of both equally as well as the less mature, and guide them, as a spiritual co-enabler and parent to listen to their True Guide and Comforter, the Holy Spirit, until their end in this temporal sphere is finished.
None of this is possible, nor comprehensible, nor possible to engage in unless one is first saved forever, redeemed from self, sin, the world and Satan, and has become the loyal solely owned possession of Jesus Christ, which happens at the beginning of the road of sanctification, not the end, as you mistakenly promote.
So there you are , Cronos. Figure out where you are. If you hare bot born from above, you have no place in this scenario.
Therefore, if one were to stop hearing Jesus’ word and to stop believing the one who sent him, one would lose eternal life and pass back from life to death.
Not grammatically possible. This is from the lip[s of The God-Man Jesus, omniscient, infallible, and inerrant, and when He deliberately uses the Perfect tense, Active voiice, and Indicative mode, third person singular (He/she/whosoever) It means without question that before the continuing of hearing and believing comes to pass, that FIRST at some point in time an irreversible repentance/belief instant of turning to God from Sin as a pleading, convicted, yearner for God's pardon through the transaction of Christ's blood paid for his sin debt and the righteousnes of Christ credited to his.her account has occurred; the and then only, will the progressive sanctification be in operation. SALVATION IS NOT A PROCESS ANY MORE THAN BEING DECLARED "NOT GUILTY."
Come on Cronos, get with it,You do the sinning, God/Christ does the saving. When He does the saving, it is perfected, complete, and irreversible. Which ONCE SAVED, YOU WILL HAVE HAD A CHANGE OF MIND, METANOEOH, SUCH THAT YOU WILL NEVER WANT THE OLD LIFE BACK.
If you do, you were not saved, only overcome with enthusuasm that fades, just like earthly lust. It is not for love of God, agapay/agapaoh, that is operating. If you prefer the world and the things in it over being wholly owned by Jesus as His slave and beloved Friend, then, my man, you are not saved and never have been. At that point, it is time to cry out with all your being for God's irrevocable redemption.
I'm one of them.
Then comes the assumption: "They wuz never saved to begin with."