The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[pegleg]

Word games. Semantics. Worship=Veneration period. You can't prove millions of catholics don't worship Mary unless you read hearts.

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox don't have a problem distinguishing between these terms. It is the NCC's that have the problem. Period.

So stop the hypocrisy

If you saw me praying the rosary in front of a statue of Mary, would you accuse me of worshipping Mary?

[RobbyS]

Mark Davis, a local talk show host, was kicking around the question why Christmas gets more public attention than Easter. He speculated that it was because Christmas is a fixed feast, while Easter is a moveable one. MY speculation is that it because most Americans do not observe the liturgical year, so that for them Easter boils down to no more than from Good Friday to Easter. No Lent means no long pre-Easter season with the attendent market- build up. What say you?

[JHavard]

I should probably let a Roman Catholic answer this, but I think the first answer is the Holy Spirit.

I believe it's the Holy Spirit that has brought this sin out into the light where hopefully it'll have to be dealt with rather then the continual covering up that has been going on forever.

Now if the question is what human being has the authority to straighten the mess out in the Catholic Church -- there is no doubt in my mind -- from the outside mind you -- that Mother Angelica the TV nun is the one who should clean house.

Before any one person can have a say so, doesn't it have to be given the go ahead by a group of bishops or cardinals at the Vatican first?

Is this Mother Angelica known world wide, or just locally?

JH

[OxfordMovement]

I don't really know, but I suspect it is up to Cardinals, bishops etc.

Mother Angelica has a TV network that goes around the world. I used to get it and loved her Tuesday night Bible teaching, but our cable system dropped it. I'm finally decided to get a Dish so I can get that and other Christian satellite channels again.

I hope you had a blessed day JH!

[RobbyS]

Normally, lay people defer to the bishops, but now influencial Catholic voices, such as William F. Buckley and others are speaking out. Individual bishops who have been hesitant to take action will be emboldened to act. The problem will be the hue and cry that will arise when the homosexual clergy call upon their allies in the liberal press to protect them.

[Wordsmith]

What say you?

Interesting idea. The Orthodox do observe an Advent fast from mid-November until Christmas - a mini-Lent, with many of the same restrictions. Do the Catholics also?

Christmas has a whole different purpose, IMO, both for Christian society and for the individual Christian soul. It is a feast of beginnings, and thus I am not bothered by the development of the tradition of gift-giving and especially the emphasis on children. It is about the ultimate expression of the hope that we see in the birth of every child. Who knows what the child will become? What is His special purpose? It is protected by the angels, by the humility of hiding among the animals, by the dark of night and winter, by noble Joseph, by the holy deception of the Magi. The dark side, such as the slaughter of the innocents, is only found if one looks deeply.

This is easy for even non-Christians or nominal Christians to relate to, to find rest in. And of course in our society the commercial aspect is huge.

Pascha/Easter is whole 'nuther ballgame. It starts with death - painful death. It is not, even on the surface, a feast that speaks first to the children. Or to the childish. It is a feast of declarations. Of public trial. Of painful exposed witnessed death. There is no short cut to Pascha. Rather than - as with Christmas - finding the dark after going through the light, one must find the light of the Resurrection only after going through the pain and death of the Crucifixtion. This is a hard feast - thus the hardness of the Lenten fast. It is not for the spiritually and emotionally immature, of any time or place I reckon.

The joys can only come after the pains. You don't get dessert first. So the general public, uncomfortable with even the thought of comfortable death, shy away. If they only knew the joy of the empty tomb.

Christ Bless.

[Ard Ri]

Then, from your point of view J, I assume that you`re convinced that the Apostles themselves 'added' to what was the Plan? They argued, bickered, and even cast lots over what to keep in and what to cast out. They made decisions on positional authority in the church, (none of which was addressed by your Plan) , Who would go where to spread the Faith, (that wasn`t addressed either....) , whether Baptism was to be a 'requirement', let alone circumcision...(ouch)! Where is the Bride of Christ in your 'Plan'? I`m not sure which Faith your attest to, but, I would be willing to bet that it has a Hierarchy of Authority of some sort. And within that 'Hierarchy', do you place a certain amount of weight upon those who make decisions for your Congregation, Charge, District, Diocese, whatever you may choose to call it. Sorry, J, but had the Apostles simply looked at what you offered in your 'Plan' and did nothing else, they may have been 'saved', but what would have happened to the then non existant Church? Even the Apostles placed people that they instructed and recognized as Faithful and True Christians into positions of authority. In the First Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, Luke writes to Theophilus, a member of the 'Church' whom Luke has entrusted with some authority in the Church. In Romans, Paul sends greeting to all who are members of the 'Church' in Rome, but finishes up in Chapter 16 by pointing out several members of the 'Church' in a postion of authority. In Corinthians, Paul once again greets all members of the 'Church', but points out particular members of the 'Church' in Chapter 16, urging members of that 'Church' to SERVE UNDER such men as Stephanas. The 'Church' is shown to have great importance to the Writers of the Letters and Epistles found in the New Testament. And, within that 'Church' were those whom were given postions of Authority. Timothy held such a postion. Titus held such a position. Philemon held such a position. They didn`t simply see themselves as 'saved', but saw the need to guide and direct the Church. 'Salvation' isn`t all that the Church is supposed to be about. In fact, if your sole purpose or intent is simply to be 'saved', I submit that is selfish . In fact, I think it is a Red Herring. We shouldn`t necessarily do something just to get to heaven. It`s not an Algebriac equation. A (if I do this) + B (God is Watching) = Me getting into Heaven. (Wrong reasoning.) We should do it because it is the right thing to do.

[dadwags]

"Is Mother angelica known world wide or just locally?"
This gives me an excuse to tell some of Mother Angelica's story .
About 20 years ago, she was the head of a small monastery of Franciscan nuns in the area of Birmingham, Alabama . She was on a program at a local TV station . She objected to either the preceding or following program and complained to the station manager . He told her that "that's the way it is in TV . If you don't like it, start your own station ."
After that conversation and lots of prayer, she decided to start EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) . This is international YV and radio, now .
Of course I am a big fan of hers .

[malakhi]

Hi MarMema, welcome to The Neverending Story!

[malakhi]

Hi MozartLover, a big cheesehead welcome to The Neverending Story!

[malakhi]

Thank you! Is there a thread that reveals these new software features or are only the chosen given this information. ;-)

There have been a few threads started on the News/Activism forum to answer questions and discuss the software changes. Freepers are welcome to give their feedback as well, and many suggestions have been incorporated into working out the new design (you probably noticed that the appearance has undergone several changes in the last few days). Sorry, don't have any links handy.

[malakhi]

MY speculation is that it because most Americans do not observe the liturgical year, so that for them Easter boils down to no more than from Good Friday to Easter. No Lent means no long pre-Easter season with the attendent market- build up. What say you?

Not enough lucrative retail tie-ins. Santa Claus trounces the Easter Bunny in the polls.

Seriously, I think Christmas has become what it is because it has been so heavily commercialized. Be thankful that Easter, aside from the bunny, chick and egg schtick, has not suffered the same fate.

[malakhi]

Thought you'd appreciate this, Mack.

Don't Use Big Words

In promulgating your esoteric cogitation's or articulating your superficial and sentimentalities and amicable philosophical or psychological observations, beware of platitudinous panderosity.

Let your conversational communications possess a clarified conciseness, a compact comprehensibiliness coalescent consistency and a concatenated cogency. Eschew all conglomerations of flatulent garrulity, jejune babblement and asinine affectations. Let your extemporaneous descantings and unpremeditated expatiation's have intelligibility and veracious vivacity without rodomontade or thrasonical bombast.

Sedulously avoid all polysyllable profundity, pompous prolixity, psittaceous vivacity, ventriloquial verbosity and magniloquent rapidity. Shun double entendres, previnient jacosity and pestifereous profanity, observant or apparent.

In other words, talk plainly, briefly, naturally, sensibly,truthfully, purely, keep from slang, don't put on airs, say what you mean, mean what you say and DON'T USE BIG WORDS.

[RobbyS]

Christmas has become hightly commercialized, but many store doors/ government offices are closed on Chirstmas Day. Wall Street still observes Good Friday, but not the US Government.

[israelite98]

If we believe the Father sent his Son to experience humanity, and to die for our sins, and to be resurrected the third day, and that his blood sacrifice would cleans us of all our sins, if we repent and ask Christ to come into our lives, and indwell us with his the Holy Spirit, that will teach us and direct us in the way we should live..

Joh 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." !!!!!!!!!!!! ;^)

[israelite98]

It would be wonderful if everything was simpler.

1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart." 1Co 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 1Co 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1Co 1:26 For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
1Co 1:27 but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
1Co 1:28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 1Co 1:29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; 1Co 1:31 therefore, as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord."

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,you will be saved. !!!

[JHavard]

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,you will be saved. !!!

This is beginning to sound awfully complicated to me.(^g^) JH

[ksen]

The "lavender" mafia....

LOL! Sorry, I thought this was too funny and had to post it again. ;^)

-ksen

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox don't have a problem distinguishing between these terms. It is the NCC's that have the problem. Period.

You can't know that unless you read hearts.

[DouglasKC]

Good morning all...

Here's an interesting question to ponder: As close as you can come with the English language, see if you can come up with the reason why Christ had to die for the forgiveness of our sins. I'm talking about describing the mechanics of it (if that's possible). In other words, how did that action cause a "door" in essence to be opened between our reality or physical universe and God? Or do you even think that?

Interested to hear your answers...