Posted on 09/21/2001 11:21:42 AM PDT by MississippiMan
I've seen a number of threads putting forth the opinion that we will eventually wind up in a world war that pits Islam against the rest of the world. These opinions tend to focus on the theory that abject hatred for and ultimate destruction of Christians and Jews are both integral to the doctrine.
On the other side of the coin, I've heard for many years that true Islam teaches peace and love, and that fundamental terrorists are aberrations not at all representative of the true spirit of Islam.
Quite frankly, I have never taken the time to explore the religion myself because as a Christian it just hasn't held much interest for me. Now, however, I'd like to gain a better understanding of where these people are coming from.
With that in mind, can anyone point me to a concise summary that shows where the hatred/destruction of non-Muslims is refuted within the doctrines of Islam? Where can I find the peace-and-love-for-all-mankind aspect backed up in the holy literature that Islam is based on?
This is not meant to be sarcastic; it is a serious question that I have as I strive to learn.
Try the following:
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3bab6acb247a.htm
There is a short section on the rise of Islaminism, the radicalization of the original Islam.
Islam has always been a (literally) militant religion, but this development made it deadly.
According to the Qu'ran every human being is honored just by virtue of being human before people are even categorized in terms of creed or breed. The Qu'ran says "We have honored the children of Adam, provided them with transport on land and sea, and conferred on them special favors above a great part of our creation." (17:70)
Islam emphasizes the oneness of Humanity as a family. "O mankind: fear your Guardian Lord who created you from a single self and created -out of it- its mate, and made from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women." (4:1)
All people are equally eligible for the basic human rights, including the right to freely chose one's religion without coercion, for within Islam the space of the "other" is well preserved and protected.
Islam is not an exclusive religion, and no human being, clergy or otherwise, is ever permitted to set limits on Alllah's mercy and forgiveness, or to speak on his behalf in assigning rewards or punishment. The ultimate judge is Allah ... "your return in the end is toward Allah.. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein you disputed." (6:164)
I disagree. I think you are 180 degrees wrong. Islam has no conduct, although its believers do. Judge the believers by their conduct. Judge the belief by the statement of that belief. In the case of Islam, the statement is the Q'uran.
Shalom.
Evil is always done in the name of good. That's why it is absolutely essential not to confuse the message with the messenger.
Mercury News
Expert says Islam prohibits violence against innocents Muslim scholar: Terrorists are mass murderers, not martyrs
BY RICHARD SCHEININ
Mercury News
Tuesday's terrorist attacks have saddened and maddened millions -- and raised questions for many about Islam. Speculation abounds that the hijackers were inspired by terrorists like Osama bin Laden, who teach that violent acts can pave the way to paradise. But what does Islam really say about such matters? About jihad and martyrdom?
We asked Hamza Yusuf, an Islamic scholar in the East Bay, who said the attackers were ``enemies of Islam.'' Not martyrs, but ``mass murderers, pure and simple.''
Yusuf, whose articles about Islam are published internationally, talked about the attacks, the hysteria that he fears could grip the United States, and the role that Muslims and others must play in opposing violence. ``We've got to get to some deeper core values that are commonly shared,'' he said.
Q Why would anyone do what the hijackers did?
A Religious zealots of any creed are defeated people who lash out in desperation, and they often do horrific things. And if these people indeed are Arabs, Muslims, they're obviously very sick people and I can't even look at it in religious terms. It's politics, tragic politics. There's no Islamic justification for any of it. It's like some misguided Irish using Catholicism as an excuse for blowing up
English people.
They're not martyrs, it's as simple as that.
Q Because?
A You can't kill innocent people. There's no Islamic declaration of war against the United States. I think every Muslim country except Afghanistan has an embassy in this country. And in Islam, a country where you have embassies is not considered a belligerent country.
In Islam, the only wars that are permitted are between armies and they should engage on battlefields and engage nobly. The Prophet Muhammad said, ``Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,'' and he mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis. And he said, ``Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies.'' The Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet, say that no one can punish with fire except the lord of fire. It's prohibited to burn anyone in Islam as a punishment. No one can grant these attackers any legitimacy. It was evil.
Q What role should American Muslims have in opposing this brand of violent Islam?
A I think that the Muslims -- and I really feel this strongly -- have to reject the discourse of anger. Because there is a lot of anger in the Muslim communities around the world about the oppressive conditions that many Muslims find themselves in. But we have to reject the discourse of anger and we have to move to a higher moral ground, recognizing that the desire to blame others leads to anger and eventually to wrath, neither of which are rungs on a spiritual ladder to God. It's times like these that we really need to become introspective.
The fact that there are any Muslims -- no matter how statistically insignificant their numbers – who consider these acts to be religious acts is in and of itself shocking. And therefore we as Muslims have to ask the question, ``How is it that our religious leadership has failed to reach these people with the true message of Islam?'' Because the acts of these criminals have indicted an entire religion in the hearts and minds of millions. Ultimately, this is a result of the bankruptcy of these type of people who claim to be adherents to the Islamic religion. These people are so bankrupt that all they have to offer is destruction.
Q Why do some people regard the hijackers as martyrs?
A That's an abomination. These are mass murderers, pure and simple. It's like Christians in this country who blow up abortion clinics or kill abortion doctors. I don't think anyone in the Christian community, except a very extreme fringe, would condone that as an acceptable Christian response. In the same way, there's no Muslim who understands his religion at all who would condone this. One of the worst crimes in Islam is brigandry -- highway robbery, or today we'd say armed robbery-- because it disrupts the sense of well-being and security among civilians.
Q Suicide bombers have cited a Koranic verse that says, ``Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.''
A That is meant for people who are legitimately defending the lands of Islam or fighting under legitimate state authority against a tyrannical leader. There is no vigilantism in Islam. Muslims believe in the authority of government.
Imam Malik, an early Islamic legal authority, said that 60 years of oppression under an unjust ruler is better than one hour of anarchy.
Q Then why is there such strong support in parts of the world for the attacks?
A Because we're dealing in an age of ignorance and an age of anomie, the loss of social order. And people are very confused and they're impoverished. What Americans are feeling now, this has been business as usual for Lebanese people, Palestinian people, Bosnian people.
Q What about Israeli people?
A Certainly the fear element is there for Israeli people -- that's true, and the terror that they've felt. And there are still a lot of Jewish people alive who remember the fear and terror of what happened in Europe, so that's not far from people's memories.
It seems at some point, the cycles of violence have to stop. It's a type of insanity, especially when we're dealing with nuclear power. People are saying that this was an attack on civilization -- and that is exactly the point. And I think the question we all have to ask is whether indiscriminate retaliation is going to help preserve civilization.
The perpetrators of this and, really, all acts of terror are people who hate too much. There's a verse in the Koran that says do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Being just is closer to piety. The evil of wrath is that justice and mercy are lost.
Q How do you explain Palestinians and others celebrating the attacks in the streets?
A When you see ignorant people in the streets, rejoicing -- the Prophet condemned it. It's rejoicing at the calamities of your enemies, and Islam prohibits that. They do have a lot of anger toward America, because America produces much of Israel's military hardware and so many American tax dollars go to support Israel. You have a lot of animosity in the Arab world. But the vast majority of Arabs are horrified by what's happened. There's animosity in the Muslim world toward American foreign policy. This is the unfortunate price of power and its exercise in the world, that you incur the resentment and animosity of a lot of people. But the majority of Muslims who I know don't have anger toward individuals or the American people.
Q The concept of jihad has been widely used to justify violence.
A Jihad means struggle. The Prophet said the greatest jihad is the struggle of a man against his own evil influences. It also refers to what Christians call a ``just war,'' which is fought against tyranny or oppression -- but under a legitimate state authority.
Q What is the Arabic word for martyr?
A Shaheed. It means witness. The martyr is the one who witnesses the truth and gives his life for it. There are people in this country like Martin Luther King who would be considered a martyr for his cause. Also, if your home, your family, your property or your land or religion is threatened, then you may defend it with your life. That person is a martyr. But so is anybody who dies of terminal illness; it's a martyr's death. Because it's such a purification that whatever wrongs they once did, they're now in a state of purity.
And the greatest martyr in the eyes of God is the one who stands in the presence of a tyrant and speaks the truth and is killed for it. He is martyred for his tongue.
Q What does Islam say about suicide?
A Suicide is haram in Islam. It's prohibited, like a mortal sin. And murder is haram. And to kill civilians is murder.
Q What is a martyr's reward?
A The Prophet said that a martyr who dies doesn't have a reckoning on the Day of Judgment. It's an act through which he is forgiven. But the Prophet also said that there are people who kill in the name of Islam and go to hell. And when he was asked why, he said, ``Because they weren't fighting truly for the sake of God.''
If there are any martyrs in this affair it would certainly be those brave firefighters and police that went in there to save human lives and in that process lost their own.
Mohammed himself was not a particularly peace-loving man - he directed the genocide of the Meccan tribes personally and spent most of his life as the 7th century equivalent of a mugger, attacking merchant caravans and looting them. At certain points in the Koran we are told that there should be no compulsion in religion - at others that infidels should be slaughtered, that a true Muslim will lie in wait for them to kill them, and that Allah has ordered Muslims to smite unbelievers at "appropriate times". The religion itself was spread through violence (the Middle East was Christian and more Greek than Arab until the Muslims visited genocide upon it!) and the story of Islam from 700 A.D. to 1600 A.D. was essentially one of a long war fought to eradicate Christianity as a social force. A coalition of Catholic armies defeated Islam decisively in 1500s and the British and French empires kept militant Islam in check until WWII.
Right now, Muslims are fighting wars to impose their faith on Christians in Nigeria, Christians and pagans in Sudan, Christians in Molucca, Christians in East Timor, Christians in the Philippines, Hindus in Kashmir and in Bangladesh and fought a war recently to try and eradicate Christianity in Serbia and Macedonia.
The original Muslim empire was called the Caliphate. When it fell, the definitive religious authority in Islam - a clerical council called the Ulema - disintegrated in a process analogous to the Reformation. Different sects and schools of thought arose within Islam, each insisting that their interpretation of the Koran was correct.
Now there are ulemas in various countries, each issuing their own authoritative interpretations of the Koran called fatwas. Some of the more liberal ulemas condemn violence, terror, etc. Most ulemas either ignore terrorist activity or encourage it.
As a result, one can read as many books about islamic religious belief as one wants - but there is no definitive answer as to what "official" Islam is since there is no central authority.
If history is any guide, the vast majority of Muslims, including the first Muslim, solved all of their politically and cultural disagreements through war and/or genocide.
Muslims all over the world contribute money to violent campaigns being waged by Islamic militants across the globe.
Islam has never been a peace-loving religion ever in its history. It is not now and given the kind of reverence the Muslim in the street shows to the bin-Laden of the world, it will never be any different in its future as it has been from the day it was conceived in the brain of a caravan-robbing Arab with a score to settle.
Those who practise Islam cover as wide a range.
That raises the issue of words having double meanings. You could say 'judge Christianity by the conduct of Christians', but then you have to determine exactly what a Christian is in the first place, what qualifies someone to use that title (if Jeff Dahmer went around calling himself a Christian, would that really have made him a Christian?, etc...).
It is entirely valid to judge the actions of individuals or groups of Muslims, but not necessarilly as being reflective of what Islam is. Other Muslims could (and will) always fall back on the argument that the actions of some or many in 'the name of Islam' is not truely representative of what Islam is. To judge Islam, you will have to investigate (and judge) the Qur'an since that is the place that we find the criterions for Muslimhood.
Very well thought out and articulate response. It is amazing that after years of coming under attack from Islamic terror (Olympic Games 1972, USS Cole, Khobar Towers, African Embassies, Achile Lauro, TWA hijackings, 1993 World Trade Center bombing, PAN AM flight 103 bombing, etc), Americans are finally asking the question.
Does Islam want to do us harm? Duh?
Also--amazing that the tenents and foundations of Islam are finally being examined in a critical light--and the stench is more than many realized. So Muhammad had two slave girls murdered for singing a sarcastic song about him? So this Muhammad guy married a 6-year old and had sex with her when she was 9?
Yup.
Like Hebrew, that is how you read the original language of the Qu'ran. You need not do it with English translations. Yeesh.
...all verses are written in radndom order and so you can not read anything sequentially and interpret it logically.
You were told wrong. It is no more difficult than the Psalms.
That is why clergy derive so much power in Islam - all powers of interpretatation rest with religious heiarchy and they can get away by claiming anything.
Sounds like the same accusation made against the Catholic Church.
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