Free Republic

The guy balking an imitation Gibson Hummingbird guitar is flaunting the sign of the devil. The ‘sign of the devil’ shown on Google images being on par to 666,322, and Bohemian Grove rituals. We see here now an affirmation by ‘tons’ of one’s true admiration, one’s own self admission, and one’s self contrition. Need they bare anything more?

lol - One sardonical flick.

By the way, that was one cute video!!

Best Regards - Pmary65

I searched out your ‘User’ name to see that you use the word ‘dispensationalism’ quite frequently in your responses to other threads. That’s okay - I won’t take it personally!

Best Regards - Pmary65

II Timothy 3:16 (all quotes/KJV)

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Daniel 9:25, 26

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall the Messiah be cut off…

* Many biblical SCHOLARS interpret ‘the Messiah the Prince’ from these verses as the One and only true Messiah being Jesus the son of the living Father. Thus being said, the ‘cut off’ point would pertain to a crucifixion year where the set scriptural conditions must have applied. For example;

John 11:9

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours [light] in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Matthew 12:39, 40

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be 'three days and three nights' in the heart of the earth.

Mark 8:31

And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and 'after three days' rise again.

Matthew 27:63

Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, 'After three days' I will rise again.

Acts 1:5 (on the day of ascension)

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost (the day of Pentecost) 'not many days' hence.

Best Regards – Pmary65

My comments I would like to make here is about the ‘sabbath’ mentioned in Leviticus 23:11, 15. It is from this sabbath that determines the correct day that Pentecost would fall on for each particular year.

There has always been much debate about which ‘sabbath’ is being referred to in Leviticus 23:11, 15.

One interpretation is that it pertains to the Saturday (seventh day) weekly sabbath with in the Passover period. There the Omer count would commence the next day on Sunday and Pentecost would always arrive 50 days later on a Sunday year after year regardless to whatever calendar # date it landed on. This practice was started by the Sadducees who happened to be the majority of temple priests in Jesus time. Another common interpretation was that the ‘sabbath’ in Leviticus 23:11, 15 is the Nisan 15th high Sabbath in the Passover period which could land on a different week day year after year. There the Omer count would begin the next day on Nisan 16th (sheaf offering) where the 50 day count could arrive on the 3rd month of Sivan 6th on a different weekday year after year. There they number the omer from the time the sickle hits the barley, and not consistantly from where Sunday lies in the Passover period. Whatever day of the week that Nisan (Abib) 16th landed on they would put the sickle to the barley and the counting of days would immediately begin.

This was the known practice of the Pharisees who handed it down through the oral law in generation after generation where the majority of common people practiced this observation which has continued by the Jews to our present modern day.

The 70 LXX authors (Pharisees) of the Septuagint Greek Old Testament (~250 B.C.) wanted to clarify matters so they took liberty by taking out the word ‘sabbath’ in Leviticus 23:11 and replacing it with the phrase; ‘the morrow after the first day’ but they left the word ‘sabbath’ in Leviticus 23:15. This was done to assimilate the ‘sabbath’ in verse 15 as the ‘first day’ mentioned in verse 11. The words ‘first day’ in verse 11 signifying the ‘first day’ of the Passover feast which was always identified and recognized as Nisan 15th a ‘high sabbath’ observed as ‘the first day of unleavened bread’.

Let me add that Nisan 14th was regarded as Passover ‘eve’ and never regarded as the ‘first day’ of Passover. If it did the authors of the Septuagint for LEV 23:11 would have been in trouble.

However, the name ‘Passover’ was loosely and commonly regarded as an 8 day celebrated observation beginning on Nisan 14th the eve to the 15th inclusive to the end of Nisan the 21st as mentioned by Josephus (~70 A.D.).

The fact that the Apostle Paul identified himself as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6) and was a major influence in association with the apostles indicates that they likely recognized the ‘sabbath’ of Leviticus 23:11 as the high day sabbath of Nisan 15th . This practice was observed as well by the disciples and our lord who was often at wits end towards the Sadducees. (Mark 12:24)

* Some people believe in the Wednesday Nisan 14th crucifixion with a Saturday Sabbath resurrection on Nisan 17th which they believe to be the first sabbath of a series of sabbaths leading up to Pentecost.

From a resurrection standpoint occurring on a Saturday Nisan 17th to another time at 40 days later we would arrive on the day of ascension. That day likely being on a Wednesday the 26th on the second month of Iyyar where our resurrected Lord commissioned the Apostles as shown in Acts 1:5-8.

If you interpret here the 50 day counting of Pentecost commencing from the first day after Nisan 15th being the (High) Sabbath as interpreted from Leviticus 23:11, 15 ; Pentecost could arrive on a Friday 6th in the third month of Sivan. Pentecost here would arrive ’9′ days later after the day of ascension.

* Other believers interpret the ‘sabbath’ of Leviticus 23:11, 15 as the weekly Saturday Sabbath in the same time frame. There the counting commences on Sunday Nisan 18th where the 50 day count completes on a Sunday Sivan 8th which would have been ’11′ days later after the day of ascension being on a Wednesday Iyyar of the 26th.

* In the mainstream belief where Jesus dies on a Friday Nisan 14th and resurrects on a Sunday Nisan 16th of which many commence here as day 1 for the 50 day counting after interpreting the ‘sabbath’ of Leviticus 23:11, 15 as being the weekly sabbath of Saturday Nisan 15th. In this time frame, Pentecost arrives later on a Sunday Sivan 6th precisely ’10′ days later after the day of ascension being on a Thursday Iyyar 25th.

* In the post Passover resurrection scenario Jesus is crucified on Wedneday Nisan 20th and raised on the Saturday sabbath of Nisan 23rd where the day of ascension occurs 40 days later on a Wednesday Sivan 3rd. Pentecost arrives ’3′ days later on the Saturday sabbath of Sivan 6th from where the 50 day count commenced from the beginning on Saturday Nisan 16th.

Jesus did say in Acts 1:5 that the promised gift of the Holy Spirit would follow shortly in time;

“… but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” KJV “… but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” NIV

As you can see from each belief a different time frame becomes established after 40 days from the resurrection in the words of Jesus spoken on the day of ascension as ‘not many’ or ‘a few’ equating to a different number of days in waiting until the Holy Spirit made itself present on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-5.

This has intrigued me where the waiting period of either 8,9, 10, or 11 days from the day of ascension to the day of Pentecost would be amassed when Jesus said quite clearly to the number of days being ‘not many’ or ‘a few’ (3) in Acts 1:5.

* Please note that the calculations made above are similarly based to the model established by Hillel II (367 A.D.) where Nisan has 30 days, Iyyar has 29 days, and Sivan has 30 days. If the Sanhedrin Council counted 30 days for the second month of Iyyar, it is possible that Pentecost landed on Sivan 5.

• Please Note – The probability of the ‘Sheaf Offering Dedication’ (Abib/Nisan 16th) occurring on a Sabbath day was very tangible as revealed from within the first century rabbinical writings such as the Mishnah/Tosefta/Menahot (tractrate 10:23). Please See;

http://books.google.com/books?id=HjosAAAAIAAJ&q=Menahot+10:23&dq=Menahot+10:23&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&cd=9

http://books.google.com/books?id=oOOJVr7Cu78C&pg=PA103&lpg=PA102&dq=Menahot+10:23&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

Best Regards – Pmary65

My comments I would like to make here is about the ‘sabbath’ mentioned in Leviticus 23:11, 15. It is from this sabbath that determines the correct day that Pentecost would fall on for each particular year. There has always been much debate about which ‘sabbath’ is being referred to in Leviticus 23:11, 15.

One interpretation is that it pertains to the Saturday (seventh day) weekly sabbath with in the Passover period. There the Omer count would commence the next day on Sunday and Pentecost would always arrive 50 days later on a Sunday year after year regardless to whatever calendar # date it landed on. This practice was started by the Sadducees who happened to be the majority of temple priests in Jesus time. Another common interpretation was that the ‘sabbath’ in Leviticus 23:11, 15 is the Nisan 15th high Sabbath in the Passover period which could land on a different week day year after year. There the Omer count would begin the next day on Nisan 16th (sheaf offering) where the 50 day count could arrive on the 3rd month of Sivan 6th on a different weekday year after year.

This was the known practice of the Pharisees who handed it down through the oral law in generation after generation where the majority of common people practiced this observation which has continued by the Jews to our present modern day.

The 70 LXX authors (Pharisees) of the Septuagint Greek Old Testament (~250 B.C.) wanted to clarify matters so they took liberty by taking out the word ‘sabbath’ in Leviticus 23:11 and replacing it with the phrase; ‘the morrow after the first day’ but they left the word ‘sabbath’ in Leviticus 23:15. This was done to assimilate the ‘sabbath’ in verse 15 as the ‘first day’ mentioned in verse 11. The words ‘first day’ in verse 11 signifying the ‘first day’ of the Passover feast which was always identified and recognized as Nisan 15th a ‘high sabbath’ observed as ‘the first day of unleavened bread’.

Let me add that Nisan 14th was regarded as Passover ‘eve’ and never regarded as the ‘first day’ of Passover. If it did the authors of the Septuagint for LEV 23:11 would have been in trouble.

However, the name ‘Passover’ was loosely and commonly regarded as an 8 day celebrated observation beginning on Nisan 14th the eve to the 15th inclusive to the end of Nisan the 21st as mentioned by Josephus (~70 A.D.).

The fact that the Apostle Paul identified himself as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6) and was a major influence in association with the apostles indicates that they likely recognized the ‘sabbath’ of Leviticus 23:11 as the high day sabbath of Nisan 15th . This practice was observed as well by the disciples and our lord who was often at wits end towards the Sadducees. (Mark 12:24)

* Some people believe in the Wednesday Nisan 14th crucifixion with a Saturday Sabbath resurrection on Nisan 17th which they believe to be the first sabbath of a series of sabbaths leading up to Pentecost.

From a resurrection standpoint occurring on a Saturday Nisan 17th to another time at 40 days later we would arrive on the day of ascension. That day likely being on a Wednesday the 26th on the second month of Iyyar where our resurrected Lord commissioned the Apostles as shown in Acts 1:5-8.

If you interpret here the 50 day counting of Pentecost commencing from the first day Nisan 16th after Nisan 15th being the (High) Sabbath as interpreted from Leviticus 23:11, 15 ; Pentecost could arrive on a Friday 6th in the third month of Sivan. Pentecost here would arrive ’9′ days later after the day of ascension. * Other believers interpret the ‘sabbath’ of Leviticus 23:11, 15 as the weekly Saturday Sabbath in the same time frame. There the counting commences on Sunday Nisan 18th where the 50 day count completes on a Sunday Sivan 8th which would have been ’11′ days later after the day of ascension being on a Wednesday Iyyar of the 26th.

* In the mainstream belief where Jesus dies on a Friday Nisan 14th and resurrects on a Sunday Nisan 16th of which many commence here as day 1 for the 50 day counting after interpreting the ‘sabbath’ of Leviticus 23:11, 15 as being the weekly sabbath of Saturday Nisan 15th. In this time frame, Pentecost arrives later on a Sunday Sivan 6th precisely ’10′ days later after the day of ascension being on a Thursday Iyyar 25th.

* In the post Passover resurrection scenario Jesus is crucified on Wednesday Nisan 20th and raised on the Saturday sabbath of Nisan 23rd where the day of ascension occurs 40 days later on a Wednesday Sivan 3rd. Pentecost arrives only ’3′ days later on the Saturday sabbath of Sivan 6th from where the 50 day count commenced from the beginning on Saturday Nisan 16th.

Jesus did say in Acts 1:5 that the promised gift of the Holy Spirit would follow shortly in time;

“… but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” KJV “… but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” NIV

As you can see from each belief a different time frame becomes established after 40 days from the resurrection in the words of Jesus spoken on the day of as- cension as ‘not many’ or ‘a few’ equates to a different number of days of waiting until the Holy Spirit made itself present on the day of Pentecost.Acts 2:1-5.

This has intrigued me where the waiting period of either 9, 10, or 11 days from the day of ascension to the day of Pen-tecost would be amassed when Jesus said quite clearly to the number of days being ‘not many’ or ‘a few’ (3) in Acts 1:5.

* Please note that the calculations made above are similarly based to the model established by Hillel II (367 A.D.) where Nisan has 30 days, Iyyar has 29 days, and Sivan has 30 days. If the Sanhedrin Council counted 30 days for the second month of Iyyar, it is possible that Pentecost landed on Sivan 5.

• Please Note – The probability of the ‘Sheaf Offering Dedication’ occurring on a Sabbath day was very tangible as revealed from within the first century rabbinical writings such as the Mishnah/Tosefta/Menahot (tractrate 10:23). Please See;

http://books.google.com/books?id=HjosAAAAIAAJ&q=Menahot+10:23&dq=Menahot+10:23&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&cd=9

http://books.google.com/books?id=oOOJVr7Cu78C&pg=PA103&lpg=PA102&dq=Menahot+10:23&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

Best Regards – Pmary65

It appears that (Harrymehome, Diego1618, and Uri’el-2012) all peg the same crucifixion date to a Wednesday in 30 A.D.. Just look up these past quotes. Hmm…. Could all 3 individuals be from the same movement???

"Anyway for the sake of time which I am limited in, besides beating this dead horse to death, I will post a study that I made many years ago which proves beyond a doubt that Yeshua died on 14 Nisan 3790 (30AD Julian)." [quote of Harrymehome]

'Good Friday or Good Wednesday' (Title)

Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:57:43 PM • 7 of 22 Diego1618 to The Ignorant Fisherman

"It is now Wednesday night (our time) the 15th of Nisan A.D.30 and He is spending his first night in the tomb. He will resurrect 72 hours after entering the "Heart of the Earth" about 15 hours earlier. This would put His resurrection on "The First of the Sabbaths" (as scripture confirms) early in the morning of the 17th [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1][John 20:1].....the First weekly Sabbath (of seven) between Passover and Pentecost [Leviticus 23:15-16]. He had spent His first Day in "The Heart of The Earth" on the Passover, Nisan 14. His first night would be the 15th (Wednesday)...the second day Thursday the 15th and the second night, Thursday the 16th. His third and final day would be Friday the 16th and His final night would be the Sabbath of the 17th. He arises before dawn after spending 72 hours in "The Heart of The Earth".

7 posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:57:43 PM by Diego1618 ( Put "Ron" on the rock!)

'A Lesson from the Fig Tree ?' (Title)

Sunday, September 26, 2010 6:24:20 PM • 54 of 88 Uri’el-2012 to Pmary65

"The 14th of Nissan(Erev Pesach) in the year 30 CE(3790) would be 3rd April."

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

54 posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 6:24:20 PM by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)

*Note – It was a Wednesday in the Gregorian Calendar.

See; http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/

Yours Truly - Pmary65

PS. Like I said earlier - "Around and round we go."

Look at Post # 38.

Like the Apocryphal Gospel of St. Peter, is it bias or non-bias, religious or non-religious, legitimate or non-legitimate?

Was the last day (JHN 7:37, 19:31) of unleavened bread a great [μεγάλη] day of the Passover feast or was it not?

Was Constantine and the 325 A.D. Council biased or non-biased when they canonized the bible?

You question my sincerity in my quest for truth? How about you? Have you stopped searching, have you got it all figured out??

Best Regards - Pmary65

Around and around we go. Already discussed in Post # 64

- Pmary65

“Keep your nights of watching in the middle of the days of unleavened bread. And when the Jews are feasting, do you fast and wail over them, because on the day of their feast they crucified Christ; and while they are lamenting and eating unleavened bread in bitterness, do you feast…Do you therefore fast on the days of the Passover, beginning from the second day (Nisan 16th) of the week (feast-period) until the preparation (Nisan 20th), and the (High) Sabbath (Nisan 21st) , six days, making use of only bread, and salt, and herbs, and water for your drink.” [Quotes End]

The Constitutions of the Apostolic Fathers, Sec. III Book V by William Whiston and was revised and reprinted by Irah Chase, D.D. (D. Appleton & C0. New York 1840).

Likely in 34 A.D. when the passion narrative began where Nisan 14th (Passover eve) fell late on a Thursday, Nisan 15th as the first day (of the Passover Feast ) fell on a Friday, Saturday Nisan 16th as the second day, Sunday Nisan 17th as the third day, Monday Nisan 18th as the fourth day, Tuesday Nisan 19th as the fifth day, Wednesday Nisan 20th as the sixth day, and Thursday Nisan 21st being the seventh final day of the Passover feast.

View online; http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.ix.vi.iii.html

Best Regards – Pmary65

“Keep your nights of watching in the middle of the days of unleavened bread. And when the Jews are feasting, do you fast and wail over them, because on the day of their feast they crucified Christ; and while they are lamenting and eating unleavened bread in bitterness, do you feast…Do you therefore fast on the days of the Passover, beginning from the second day (Nisan 16th) of the week (feast-period) until the preparation (Nisan 20th), and the (High) Sabbath (Nisan 21st) , six days, making use of only bread, and salt, and herbs, and water for your drink.” [Quotes End]

The Constitutions of the Apostolic Fathers, Sec. III Book V by William Whiston and was revised and reprinted by Irah Chase, D.D. (D. Appleton & C0. New York 1840).

Likely in 34 A.D. when the passion narrative began where Nisan 14th (Passover eve) fell late on a Thursday, Nisan 15th as the first day (of the Passover Feast ) fell on a Friday, Saturday Nisan 16th as the second day, Sunday Nisan 17th as the third day, Monday Nisan 18th as the fourth day, Tuesday Nisan 19th as the fifth day, Wednesday Nisan 20th as the sixth day, and Thursday Nisan 21st being the seventh final day of the Passover feast.

View online; http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.ix.vi.iii.html

Best Regards – Pmary65

Socrates speaks ~ 439 A.D..

“Almost all the churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.”

Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, ch. 22.

See Dr. Richard Challoner (1691-1781) footnote regarding his interpretation for the tense of occurrence behind Acts 20:7 ‘μια των σαββατων’ to the breaking of bread in the Reims N.T. bible.

http://ia310804.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/0/items/holybibletransla00newy/holybibletransla00newy_jp2.zip&file=holybibletransla00newy_jp2/holybibletransla00newy_1743.jp2&scale=2&rotate=0

Best Regards – Pmary65

Wow! Everyone has a different shake on the matter! How about anyone else? Say it now,or forever hold your peace.

Best Regards - Pmary

That’s one sad lookin sycamore!

Likewise, the Gospel of Nicodemus reveals; that the body of Jesus would have decayed for about a day and a half before a customary burial by Joseph.The rash burial consisted initially with a quickly purchased 'one piece linen cloth' placed around Jesus’s body on the late Wednesday evening. After the Thursday high sabbath passed (i.e. JHN 19:31), Joseph returns to the tomb (with Pilate’s permission) on the Friday (secular day) with 'linen strips' and a headdress, and wraps the body with aromatic spices under a guarded watch completing the task well before the weekly Sabbath begins.

The linen strips and headdress are re-discovered neatly rolled up on the late evening of the Saturday weekly sabbath when Peter comes to the sepulchre. The guards quickly bring word to the priests who seek for Joseph who was placed earlier in a secured holding cell (knowing that he was the last person working in the tomb) but he was missing and not revealed until about 40 days later.

• This narrative does not suit a Friday to Sunday chronology too well. The sign of Jonah also holds little merit if the missing Joseph was with the resurrected Jesus at a late time on the weekly sabbath before a Sunday morning discovery.

See – The Gospel of Nicodemus with Joseph’s account of a resurrection experience with the risen Lord online at;

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf08.vii.xii.xvi.html

Best Regards – Pmary65

If Jesus died and was buried late on the Friday afternoon, then resurrected early on the Sunday morning, when did the women purchase and prepare the spices?

Thus scripture (Mark 16:1) shows, when the sabbath passed the woman purchased the spices, and prepared them (Luke 23:56), resting afterwards on the weekly sabbath according to the biblical commandment. Here the Gospel evidence clearly indicates that the preparation of spices by the woman occurred on a secular day between two seperate sabbaths held on different days.

If Jesus died on a Thursday and resurrected on a Sunday there would be no secular day present for the preparation of spices between the Friday high sabbath (i.e. John 19:31), being back to back to the weekly Saturday sabbath.

If Jesus died on a Wednesday and resurrected on a Sunday there would be one secular day available on the Friday for spicing activities. However, a Sunday resurrection in this time frame would really be after 4 days if you count wholly for the time duration the body was layed in the tomb. So either way, the preparation of spices as timed by the women makes a first day of the week resurrection most difficult to fashion.

Best Regards – Pmary65

RE: “My Jewish Calendar says Nissan 14 is Erev Pesach.

I.e. Pesach beginning at sundown on the 22nd of April Monday of 34 CE.”

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach”

42 posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 9:27:23 PM by Uri’el-

* Your above statement is in reference to the (revised) Jewish Calendar by Frank Yellin, 510 Beresford Avenue, Redwood City, CA 94061, for (Mac users only), and is based on the algorithms established by N. Dershowitz and E. M. Reingold.

Both of the other online calendars you provided show April 22nd 34 CE. (3794) on a Saturday (Gregorian time) and NOT on a Monday as you conveyed previously from your ‘preferred’ Hebrew calendar.

http://wwwx.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/corre/calendar?3794

Shows Nisan 14th on March 20th 34 CE. (2 days before the Vernal Equinox) and has not allowed for an intercalary leap month in the previous year. This online Luni-Solar Metonic 19 year cycle calendar is based likely on Hillel II’s (~367 A.D.) intercalary regulated principles (for the sake of diaspora) showing earlier calendar years reformed to later methods based on trajectories calculated in reverse order.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/

Shows April 22nd 34 CE. on a Saturday in Gregorian time or on a Thursday in Julian time.

The calendar links from the Royal Naval Observatory (that I provided) shows the same dates in the Julian context to the early years of interest along with the appropriate lunar cycles. In the former times the Sanhedrin observed the moon cycles and lit bonfires in the night on the hills to signal the peoples of their findings.

Best Regards – Pmary65

Re: "The 14th of Nissan(Erev Pesach) in the year 30 CE(3790) would be 3rd April."

* Most interesting... I would have to see the actual book regarding the Author's definition for dating with accuracy before placing my personal opinion. It appears to be a matter of 'one of a kind', and compares quite differently from most other Asronomer's calculations that I had ever seen.

'Teacher's own'... I suspect. If you know of any other calendar sources that states the same Passover dates as equally, please feel free to enlighten me furtherer!

Best Regards - Pmary65