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Posts by Zuriel

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  • God Is One

    02/08/2016 3:51:36 PM PST · 51 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism

    **Oneness is impossible because Jesus prays to his Father in John 17 and many other verses show quite clearly two separate persons.**

    You trinitarians admit that the Son of God was a man in every sense of the word, including having a soul. Oneness believe that as well. We simply believe that the ‘all power’ in him is God the Father.

    “..I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.” Acts 2:25-28

    While those are words from the prophet David, is not about him. For one, David was not the Holy One. Also, David’s body stayed in the grave and saw corruption.

    Oneness believe that the image of God is not God, but the Son of God, for God is a Spirit. We believe that the Holy One was the first creation of God the Father in the beginning, and was incarnated to save mankind.

    **For example, at the baptism of Jesus.**

    I can talk, drive a car, and engage a garage door opener all at the same time. Jesus Christ points out several times in chapters 14,15, and 16, that he is from the Father, and so is the Holy Ghost. What do you limit the Father to in spiritual ability? What things can he do at the same time, and what can he not do at the same time?

    **The other huge problem you have of course, is the Church left behind by the Apostles believed in the Trinity.**

    The apostles left behind the teachings that they were given by the Lord. As the Lord never used the phrases ‘God the Son’, or ‘God the Holy Spirit’, neither did they.

    After the apostles died, there were men that, like the Pharisees, wanted to be the foremost teachers. Paul, John, Peter, and Jude warned of it being a present problem in their time. Consequently, there was plenty of push and shove about the spiritual understanding of the Godhead. We know that the devil loves deception and confusion; a little or a lot, but I’m sure he prefers a lot.

    There is plenty of history to show the disagreements from approximately 100 A.D. onward. It was even brought to the forefront when the great John Calvin (cough) encouraged the execution of oneness witness Michael Servetus. At least (it is said) Calvin just wanted him beheaded, not burned at the stake like he actually was (isn’t that nice/sarc).

    Why has oneness been small in number (in our opinion)?....well, there are any number of reasons. The biggest being the Lord’s own declaration: “Strait is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it.”

    Paul wasn’t the only high-strung Pharisee; maybe the most zealous though. Why didn’t God literally blind a couple more around the same time, straighten them out, and send them into Asia (China, Japan, India, etc)?

    God only knows. He has his reasons for doing things his way.
    For us, they are past finding out.

  • God Is One

    02/07/2016 10:05:59 PM PST · 49 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism

    **Did you catch that - the Holy Spirit is called “He”, a force or power is not a HE. A person is a He. The Holy Spirit hears, the Holy Spirit speaks. These are attributes of a person.**

    Of course I caught that. You just didn’t seem to catch that the Holy Ghost is a complete servant of God the Father, just as the Son of God is.........

    “Howbeit when the he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall NOT speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.” vs 13.

    Sound familiar?....”For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.’ Jn 12:49

    Both are attributes of God the Father, that are sent by the Father to do his will. We can’t relate to having such utterly amazing attributes since we are not the omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient God.

    **Jesus Christ is God,**

    Jesus Christ called himself the Son of God. Are you wiser than him?

    **one of the attributes of God is He isn’t created. John 1 tells us the Word was God.**

    And once again, the divine Words that came out of the Son of God’s mouth originated where?

    **So Jesus could not have been made because it tells us nothing was made without Jesus, which would include Jesus.**

    Is that some sort of circular reasoning?....once again here’s the Word:

    “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Col. 1:15.

    “..These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” Rev. 3:14

    The Father was in him, giving power to create, unless you think that the Father didn’t make anything.

    **Notice Jesus doesn’t say I am the first and the last because the Father is in me. No, he flat out declares his deity.**

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass...” Rev. 1:1

    He is the voice of God the Father. He flat out defined the Godhead to John and the other apostles decades before Revelation. They already knew that the omnipresent Father was in him, giving him power and majesty. That’s why, in Isaiah 9:6, the Son is called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the EVERLASTING FATHER, and the Prince of peace.

    You apparently believe that God the Father literally sits on one throne, and Jesus Christ literally sits on his own throne right beside the Father. What’s you understanding of this?.........

    “And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.” Rev. 4:2

    The next verses seem to describe a image on the throne similar to that of Jesus Christ in chapter 1. Chapter 3:21 seems to point out that the Son’s throne is IN the Father’s throne. It is all very hard for people in a finite physical world to understand. But, try we do.

    Yes, I’m Oneness Pentecostal.

  • God Is One

    02/07/2016 5:28:43 PM PST · 46 of 52
    Zuriel to af_vet_1981

    As much emphasis as your church puts in the mass, one would think that that would be in your creed as well.

    **I believe in one God,
    the Father almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all things visible and invisible.
    I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
    the Only Begotten Son of God,
    born of the Father before all ages.
    I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
    the Only Begotten Son of God,
    born of the Father before all ages.**

    Starts out good, then starts hitting bumps in the road:

    **God from God, Light from Light,**

    Should be: Son of God from God, God is Light (in him is no darkness at all. 1Jn 1:5

    **true God from true God,**

    Should be: true Son of God from true God.

    **begotten, not made**

    Should be: Firstborn of the creation of God.

    They make that clear early in the creed, and then change it. It’s best to stick with the Word.

    “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Col. 1:15.

    “..These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” Rev. 3:14

    (that all the time I have right now.)

  • God Is One

    02/07/2016 4:56:35 PM PST · 45 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism

    **I also believe the Father and Son are in me. Do you believe that?**

    God the Father and the mind that he put in Christ. This is supplied by the Comforter (Holy Ghost). Not two or three separate and distinct persons of God.

    You do realize that until Jesus Christ departed, the Holy Ghost outpouring could not happen. He had to go away in order for the Comforter to come (John 16:7-15).

    “Howbeit when the he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall NOT speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.” vs 13.

    Sound familiar?....”For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.’ Jn 12:49

    The Father is the source of all truth.

    **So I understand you, who is Jesus to you? A created being like an angel or human?**

    I believe God the Father made soul of the Son before any other thing created. (see Rev. 3:14 below). And of course, the Father later made the human body for that soul to dwell in.

    “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Col. 1:15.

    At that point, the Father was in him, giving power to create, unless you think that the Father didn’t make anything.

    The Father told the Son what he needed to know, when he needed to know it, even after the resurrection, but before ascending to the Father to be glorified, telling Mary Magdalene:

    “..I ascend unto my Father, and to your Father, and to my God, and to your God.” Jn 20:17

    ..And before his ascension to heaven after being glorified:

    “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” Acts 1:7

    ..And after his ascension to heaven:

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass..”. Rev. 1:1

    “..These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” Rev. 3:14

    **Is it ok to worship Jesus or would that be idolatry?**

    The Father is in Christ, so of course it’s okay to worship Jesus Christ. Unlike the Ark of the Covenant, where God said he would dwell between to cherubims, and thereby keeping people from worshipping the work of men’s hands. The Son is begotten of God, not man, and the Father dwells in Son.

  • God Is Three

    02/06/2016 11:26:05 PM PST · 144 of 264
    Zuriel to Mark17; Mom MD

    **While Christ was on Earth He voluntarily limited himself to a human body and being subject to space/time. He returned to full glory after His resurrection. During the time on earth he was voluntarily limited and that’s why the Father would know some things He didn’t**

    **I agree Mom. I think Jesus temporarily limited himself. He was probably not aware of what was going on in the Philippines at the time He was on earth.**

    Yet he knew Nathanael was sitting under the fig tree, before he physically met him...

    Knew Lazarus was dead, before anyone could actually tell him....

    Knew how many times the woman at the well had been married and that the man she was living with was not her husband....

    What it boils down to is, just as the Son declared, that the Father in him was giving him the words, and doing the miraculous works (read John14:10,11).

    The Father told the Son what he needed to know, when he needed to know it, even after the resurrection, but before ascending to the Father to be glorified, telling Mary Magdalene:

    “..I ascend unto my Father, and to your Father, and to my God, and to your God.” Jn 20:17

    ..And before his ascension to heaven after being glorified:

    “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” Acts 1:7

    ..And after his ascension to heaven:

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass..”. Rev. 1:1

    “..These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;” Rev. 3:14

  • God Is One

    02/06/2016 10:49:00 PM PST · 42 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism

    So you refuse to believe what Jesus Christ tells you in John 14:10,11?....

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

    I’ve given you many scriptural references in this back and forth, and you’ve replied to hardly any of them. You have used maybe 2 or 3, and each easily confirm the Son’s description given in John 14:10,11, and many other references. You’ve been told. My job is done.

  • God Is One

    02/06/2016 6:33:25 PM PST · 39 of 52
    Zuriel to af_vet_1981

    I have several RC friends, and know other RCs enough to know what they believe. And from them, I could probably show you 20 or so people that have different opinions of RC doctrine.

    Just on the mass, there are those that say ‘mass every day’, some that make sure they get it weekly, others that make it a couple of times a month, and some that do when ever it’s is convenient (one is a OTR truck driver, so he has to fit it in when he can. Seems like a good excuse. He’s a good guy, pro-life, traditional marriage, etc. Unlike abominable people like Pelosi, who I’m guessing manages weekly, and brags about her faithfulness).

    I’ve asked some of them, “If the mass is eaten for eternal life, why is it taken repeatedly? Once doesn’t last? When does it wear off? Does it wear off?” Aside for mostly ‘I don’t know’ answers, I don’t think that I’ve ever gotten the same answers to those questions.

  • God Is One

    02/06/2016 11:38:08 AM PST · 36 of 52
    Zuriel to Mom MD

    Where did the Son say that his words came from?

    Jesus Christ is the audio and visible expression of the invisible God the Father.

  • God Is One

    02/06/2016 10:56:37 AM PST · 33 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism; Mom MD

    One more time. Jesus Christ said that the Father is in him, and that he is in the Father. He can say that he is the alpha and omega because he is the mouth piece of Almighty God. (Remember Heb. 1:1-3?...”God...in these last days hast spoken to us by his Son, whom he hast appointed heir of all things”.) If the Father is entirely separate, he will have nothing left when he gives it all to the Son.

    All through the gospel of John, the Son points out the source of his wisdom and power.

    I can answer every point that you bring up with the Son’s own explanation of him being in the Father, and the Father in him.

    You want the Father to be separate, and probably have his own image. Jesus didn’t teach you that. Who did?

    You want Jesus Christ to be called ‘God the Son’. Jesus and his apostles didn’t teach you that. Who did?

    You want to call the Spirit of God, ‘God the Holy Spirit’. Jesus and his apostles never taught you that. Who did?

    Jesus (and the writer of Hebrews) claim that he inherited his name. Do you believe them? If you do, then you have to admit that one of the names of the Father is ‘Jesus’.

    As I said before, Jesus Christ pointed out how the centurion had great faith. How? Because the centurion understood power structure. He was under authority from a power higher than himself, and used that authority as if it was his own, because that’s the reality. Caesar’s power was vested in him, and was Caesar’s voice to his men.

    Likewise, Jesus Christ pointed out the power structure he dwells in: “My Father is greater than I”, and “I am in my Father, and my Father in me”. All power is GIVEN the Christ. Do you believe that?

    I’ve debated this with Prods that admit that the phrase ‘God the Son’ is unscriptural, and say they can believe in the trinity using the scriptural phrase ‘Son of God’. That’s commendable.

    But, the RCs that I posed the same question to are not willing to give it up, because that would lead to not calling Mary the ‘mother of God’. They believe that the flesh of Jesus Christ is God.

    The reality is that the flesh of Jesus Christ contains the invisible God. Mary didn’t have any part in making that. But, that’s the part that makes the Christ Lord.

    “The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.” They crucified the Son, not realizing that he was the earthly habitation of God the Father.

  • God Is One

    02/06/2016 10:07:25 AM PST · 31 of 52
    Zuriel to Mom MD

    So you don’t believe that the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in the Father? If so, you defy the Son’s own definition. And he claims to have received all his wisdom and instruction from the Father.

    You Trinitarians believe that the Christ is separate, and is creator all things. What did the Father make?

  • God Is Three

    02/05/2016 11:24:47 PM PST · 65 of 264
    Zuriel to metmom; reed13k

    **The New Testament is more explicit about God’s triune nature. After Jesus’ baptism, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove, and the Father said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased” (Matt. 3:17). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are together in the same scene.**

    reed13k, the unspiritual understanding of men have given the world the confusion of ‘three co-equal, separate and distinct persons in the Godhead’. Consider the following:

    Well, first of all, the man standing in the river is the Son of God, not God the Son. Neither Jesus Christ, nor his apostles, EVER used the phrase ‘God the Son’.

    Secondly, why is it so hard to believe that God the Father could both speak AND give John a visual sign at the SAME time. We are talking about the ONE who has power to do anything! A TV is an physical object, but plug it in (the power), and there is visual and audio enhancements. I’m also sure electricity is REALLY important in making a TV set.

    Better yet, compare man’s interpretation (like MacArthur’s) to the EXPERT,.....Jesus Christ. (Whose words I used several times below, in a short discussion I just sent off to anther FReeper on the previous thread of this series.)......

    Jesus Christ said that all power was given to him. By who pray tell?

    Jesus Christ said that all the words and works, that he said or performed, were from the Father.

    Is the Father omnipresent? Jesus Christ declared that God the Father is a Spirit (Jn 4:23,24).
    Is the Father found in the Son? If not, then the Father is not omnipresent.

    Consider the Son’s prayer to the Father in John 17:1-3:

    1. “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee.” (see how the Son NEEDS the Father to glorify him so that he can glorify the Father.)

    2. “As thou hast GIVEN him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as many as thou hast given him.” (the Father gave him this power, not vice versa. And the power is the gift of the Holy Ghost.)

    3. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the ONLY TRUE GOD, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

    Sent from where?
    The soul of the Son was sent from the spiritual realm of God the Father, into the physical realm of God’s creation.

    “Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:” Heb. 10:5

    In the trinitarian view, that has the Son as the creator of all things, who made the Son’s body?

    Take a look at the Ark of the Covenant:

    The focal point of worship was the invisible God that dwelt between the cherubims. God’s wisdom showed in that instruction, by making sure that the people wouldn’t worship the works of men’s hands. But symbolism of the Ark’s two main ingredients (wood, overlaid with gold inside AND outside) was shown in Jesus own words in John 14:10,11:

    “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.”

    Remember what was put in the Ark? God put his words (the tablets of stone) in his Son.

    “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.’ Jn 12:49,50.

    Also, the golden bowl of manna was preserved even before God commanded Moses to build the Ark. (Ex. 16:32-34) Yes, that’s proof that God’s bread of life was to be placed in his Son:

    And so, Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost. He had to go away so that the Holy Ghost could be given. That’s why the Ark had to disappear from view. The Son was going to disappear from view (ascend to heaven). Just as the Jews are going to bring an ark back into view, so also is the Lord Jesus Christ going to return to view when he comes again!

    As Aaron’s rod that budded, blossomed, and brought forth almonds, was placed in the Ark, so also the resurrection power was placed in Jesus Christ:

    “For as the father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.” Jn 5:26

    “Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it up again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.” Jn 10 17:18

    “...Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,...”. Rms 6:4

    The worldly entertainment industry is powered by the ‘prince of this world’. A favorite theme of it is people possessed by an evil spirit. They have a mind of their own, but to varying degrees, are shown to let the evil power use their body to do evil deeds. The subjects are often shown dying in that horrible condition of possession.

    The Holy Ghost baptism is the power of God to empower people to be used of God for only good, and after death, raise them from the dead when the trump of God sounds.

    The Son of God (man with a soul) was and is possessed with the power of God (the Father), and has expressed the will of the invisible God to all that will hear his voice.

    Does that last comment sound familiar?.............

    “The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good.....the Jews...slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up.....he rose from the dead. And commanded us to preach unto the people......remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all that heard the word.’ Acts 10:36-44 (abbreviated to simply get the main point across. Also read Peter’s initial testimony; Acts 2:14-40)

    Wanna know how Jesus Christ is Lord of all? I think it is because the omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient Father is in him, and he in him.

  • God Is One

    02/05/2016 11:08:58 PM PST · 25 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism

    More clouds and wind and no rain.

    Jesus Christ has the Alpha and Omega IN him.

    **Acts 5 declares the Holy Spirit is God.**

    The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father. John 14:26; 15:26

    “And, behold. I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.” (that sounds like Holy Ghost baptism right there.)

    Just as there is no phrase “God the Son’ in the scriptures, there is also no phrase ‘God the Holy Spirit” (Ghost) in the them as well. The Father is the source of all things divine:

    “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” James 1:17,18.

    Remember how Jesus Christ was so impressed with the faith of the centurion, that asked for his servant to be healed?

    That centurion understood the power of a supreme commander: “...I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.” Lk 8:9

    Jesus healed the servant. And where did Jesus Christ say his power came from?.......that’s right,...the Father.

  • God Is One

    02/05/2016 10:15:31 PM PST · 23 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism

    I’ll be honest (of course). Your reply reminded me of ‘clouds and wind, but no rain’. (You say ‘Bible’, but where are the scriptures?)

    **The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.**

    I never said that they were.

    God is the Father. Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Jesus Christ and his apostles never used the phrase “God the Son”. Are you wiser than they?

    Jesus Christ said that all power was given to him. By who pray tell?

    Jesus Christ said that all the words and works, that he said or performed, were from the Father.

    Is the Father omnipresent? Jesus Christ declared that God the Father is a Spirit (Jn 4:23,24).
    Is the Father found in the Son? If not, then the Father is not omnipresent.

    Consider the Son’s prayer to the Father in John 17:1-3:

    1. “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee.” (see how the Son NEEDS the Father to glorify him so that he can glorify the Father.)

    2. “As thou hast GIVEN him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as many as thou hast given him.” (the Father gave him this power, not vice versa. And the power is the gift of the Holy Ghost.)

    3. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the ONLY TRUE GOD, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

    Sent from where?
    The soul of the Son was sent from the spiritual realm of God the Father, into the physical realm of God’s creation.

    “Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:” Heb. 10:5

    In the trinitarian view, that has the Son as the creator of all things, who made the Son’s body?

    Take a look at the Ark of the Covenant:

    The focal point of worship was the invisible God that dwelt between the cherubims. God’s wisdom showed in that instruction, by making sure that the people wouldn’t worship the works of men’s hands. But symbolism of the Ark’s two main ingredients (wood, overlaid with gold inside AND outside) was shown in Jesus own words in John 14:10,11:

    “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.”

    Remember what was put in the Ark? God put his words (the tablets of stone) in his Son.

    “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.’ Jn 12:49,50.

    Also, the golden bowl of manna was preserved even before God commanded Moses to build the Ark. (Ex. 16:32-34) Yes, that’s proof that God’s bread of life was to be placed in his Son:

    And so, Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost. He had to go away so that the Holy Ghost could be given. That’s why the Ark had to disappear from view. The Son was going to disappear from view (ascend to heaven). Just as the Jews are going to bring an ark back into view, so also is the Lord Jesus Christ going to return to view when he comes again!

    As Aaron’s rod that budded, blossomed, and brought forth almonds, was placed in the Ark, so also the resurrection power was placed in Jesus Christ:

    “For as the father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.” Jn 5:26

    “Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it up again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.” Jn 10 17:18

    “...Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,...”. Rms 6:4

    The worldly entertainment industry is powered by the ‘prince of this world’. A favorite theme of it is people possessed by an evil spirit. They have a mind of their own, but to varying degrees, are shown to let the evil power use their body to do evil deeds. The subjects are often shown dying in that horrible condition of possession.

    The Holy Ghost baptism is the power of God to empower people to be used of God for only good, and after death, raise them from the dead when the trump of God sounds.

    The Son of God (man with a soul) was and is possessed with the power of God (the Father), and has expressed the will of the invisible God to all that will hear his voice.

    Does that last comment sound familiar?.............

    “The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good.....the Jews...slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up.....he rose from the dead. And commanded us to preach unto the people......remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all that heard the word.’ Acts 10:36-44 (abbreviated to simply get the main point across. Also read Peter’s initial testimony; Acts 2:14-40)

    Wanna know how Jesus Christ is Lord of all? I think it is because the omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient Father is in him, and he in him.

  • God Is One

    02/04/2016 10:51:09 PM PST · 20 of 52
    Zuriel to one Lord one faith one baptism; Ezekiel

    **In the Bible, who identifies themself as the “alpha and omega”?**

    themself????

    Where did you get that word? And it seems that you are using it to make it appear that there are two (or three) persons talking, where the speaker says, “I am.....” (singular).

    It is simple. God the Father (He is a Spirit) is so completely in Christ, and Christ is so completely in him, that there is no separation. That’s the plain teaching of the Son in John chapter 14 (well, actually all of John). When Christ opens his mouth and speaks in Revelation, he is speaking the words that the Father gave to him to speak. (Rev. 1:1)

  • God Is One

    02/04/2016 6:20:22 PM PST · 17 of 52
    Zuriel to Ezekiel

    **That’s what the false teachers smear onto the text. He is CORRECTING THEM, explaining why “Son of God” is not “God”.**

    Well, in the scriptures, Jesus Christ (and his apostles) NEVER used the phrase “God the Son”. That’s where ‘Drs’ such as MacArthur stumble. They fail to see that ‘God is a Spirit’ only, and not a physical image. They think that he is both, and therefore ‘two persons’. Jesus Christ does such a wonderful job of explaining the Godhead, only for carnal minds to think of the Father as being an older (looking) version of the Son.

    They also use the phrase ‘God the Holy Spirit (Ghost)’, which isn’t scriptural either. They interpret that the Spirit that proceeds from the Father is another person of God, coequal to the Father. When in reality the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father.

    The ‘Word’ (the Father. remember that Christ sourced his words and works directly to the Father that dwells in him) was made flesh, that is, visible to mankind. Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God.

    Want a visible image of the Father? One has to look to Jesus Christ.

    Here’s an unrelated question:

    I looked at your homepage and saw the Flag of Israel. I discovered years ago that it’s not all that old. What a couple hundred years? A year or so ago I was staring at the ‘star’ of David, and realized that there are six triangles that meet in six places, creating a six sided center. Do you find that a bit curious?

  • Team Carson furious with Cruz

    02/04/2016 11:09:36 AM PST · 299 of 353
    Zuriel to dp0622

    **I’d..delete it and not give it a SECOND thought.**

    Just got off the phone with a truck driver friend of mine out in Cedar Rapids, IA. I asked him if he had heard about the Cruz/Carson voting kerfluffle. He said his wife is a Carson fan, and at the caucus, just blew it off and voted for him anyway.

  • Team Carson furious with Cruz

    02/04/2016 10:54:15 AM PST · 293 of 353
    Zuriel to SubMareener

    **Holy Sprint**

    ???? (LOL)

    **Donald went to Church the day before the Iowa Caucus, and heard a sermon on humility. The Church didn’t know he was coming, but that “just happened” to be the topic.**

    Could be true. But, what minister would admit to changing the topic upon seeing Trump come in. I would think that any minister (even a lib one in the PCUSA), with even just a few years of experience, can shift gears and deliver a 20 minute sermon on humility. The story of Jesus Christ’s first coming is dominated with his humility. Hence, most sermons have a humility message built right in. Pretty easy message to relay. Getting folks to model their life after Christ,........not so easy. Paul’s letters prove that.

  • Team Carson furious with Cruz

    02/04/2016 10:26:59 AM PST · 287 of 353
    Zuriel to dp0622

    **The Ruling is you are a moron if you read from ANOTHER contender that your guy dropped out of the race, so vote for him!!**

    True. We conservatives like to point out how dumbed down the lib voters are. You are proving how dumbed down many conservative voters have become. Another fact: Smart phones do not necessarily make people smart.

    Also, is there any past history of a candidate quitting the race just a couple of hours before a vote? It probably has happened, but I sure don’t recall it. That would be something that would need more info than a silly tweet, imo.

    Maybe Cruz got back some of the votes he lost because of the stupid mailer.

  • Who Were the 144,000 of Revelation?

    02/02/2016 10:00:54 PM PST · 50 of 77
    Zuriel to Cats Pajamas

    Anytime; glad to be of any help. (I kinda offered my ‘two cents’ without being asked. God bless).

  • Who Were the 144,000 of Revelation?

    02/02/2016 9:18:49 PM PST · 48 of 77
    Zuriel to Cats Pajamas

    Leave no ‘stone unturned’. First of all, pray that God guides you as you study. Tell him that you want to understand his word with all your heart.

    Read slowly, even reading a verse or sentence over until you’ve made sure that you understand it to best of your ability. Keep everything in context.

    A good example of getting something OUT of context is the misunderstanding of 1Cor. 15:29, by a certain group that baptizes people in place of someone that had already died, but wasn’t baptized.

    The confusion is that they fail to see the context:

    Paul starts chapter 1Cor. 15 teaching of Christ’s resurrection, and shifts gears at verse 12, telling of the doubters arguments about no resurrection, and the hopelessness if Christ is not. This continues through verse 19, then he diverts for a few verses to teach of the Lord’s resurrection, and the results of it. Then.....

    ...in verse 29, he continues the thought from 19. He is saying that, why be baptized into Christ if he is not risen, or his saints will not rise from the dead? Then Paul closes the passage reaffirming that Christ is risen.

    John 3:16 is a great verse. But, it must not be separated from the previous words of Christ in that chapter (the ‘rest of the story’, as Paul Harvey would say).

    The events foretold by the prophets, THE Prophet Jesus Christ, and relayed to John (Revelation), tell of destruction worse than ever before, and worse than anything afterward.

    Personally, I think that WW2 surpasses anything the Romans did to Israel, in terms of destruction (how many Jews died at the hands of Hitler and Stalin? millions). And even then, there was no ability for people around the world see the ‘two prophets’ do their work, finally be killed, and then rise from the dead and ascend to heaven. We didn’t have live TV from around the world in WW2, because there were no satellites yet, to make that possible.

    Yes, the time is at hand, closer than ever.

  • THE WORD OF FAITH HERESY THAT TEACHES JESUS CHRIST WAS BORN AGAIN IN HELL

    01/31/2016 11:12:30 AM PST · 21 of 61
    Zuriel to Telepathic Intruder

    **“Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” When Jesus said that on the cross, to the thief next to him, I don’t think he was referring to Hell.**

    I agree. But, I think that Jesus told the thief that, because that would be the thief’s next conscious experience after death. Three days after his death on the cross (the ‘sign of Jonah’) Jesus told Mary Magdalene, upon his showing himself to her near the tomb:

    “Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and to your Father; and to my God, and to your God.” John 20:17

    That would make it clear to me, that Jesus Christ had not ascended anywhere, but he spiritually DID go to hell and snatch the keys of hell and death from the devil.

    Just as one has no knowledge of the passing of time while sleeping or in a coma, so it is, imo, of the soul sleeping, waiting for the trump of God. In a three day span, the Son had not yet ascended to the Father, and I think it not possible for Paradise to be missing the presence of the Father.

  • Rick Santorum Rips Megyn Kelly, Roger Ailes, Fox News for Making Sure ‘Game Is Being Stacked’

    01/29/2016 9:42:22 AM PST · 81 of 93
    Zuriel to samtheman

    Yes, the makeup thing is so overdone. It’s the first thing I notice on a woman’s face. I don’t see beauty, I see chemicals, ingredients, and attachments (fake eyelashes). It is almost a distraction if I’m in a conversation with the woman.

    My wife hasn’t worn makeup in over 30 years. She can wash her face, fix her hair, and she’s good to go. Even when she wore the stuff, she never wore bright red lipstick. That stuff is just plain fit for a circus clown. I can grab her anytime, cheek to cheek, or a kiss, and not mess up a thing. I really like that.

  • Discourse on the Torah: KJV's OT Isn't An Accurate Translation

    01/28/2016 10:16:42 PM PST · 41 of 66
    Zuriel to Phinneous

    **Just to follow the G-d of Israel. (including shunning any notion of a trinity.)**

    So when the Messiah does come, with your understanding of the scriptures, how is he viewed, simply another messenger of God, or the power of God made visible (in the form of a man) to man? Just asking.

    I believe that God the Father has appeared to man in various fashions, and spoken also through his prophets. Yet, he promised through Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, ect. that he would appear to them in the form of a man.

    The ‘form’ is not God, because God is invisible, but the Almighty God in the ‘form’ IS God. And the God of creation has chosen to put all power in this ‘form’, making him the focal point of a world that lives in a material and visible landscape. This ‘form’ has a mind and soul like any other man, as the prophets plainly describe, yet is completely filled with the invisible God. I believe that Jesus Christ is that ‘form’.

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/24/2016 8:15:11 PM PST · 60 of 60
    Zuriel to imardmd1

    **Peter’s history showed that he did not understand NT doctrine until shown by others. particularly by the Holy Spirit after Jesus’ Ascension.**

    Are you still, like many others, trying to show Jesus Christ as a poor instructor in righteousness?

    Jesus Christ put Peter at the forefront because he was what he wanted in leadership. The Lord told him that after he would be converted to strengthen the brethren.

    Folks like to point out Peter’s denying the Lord three times as proof of a weak disciple, forgetting:

    -that he was the only one to pull a sword in defense of the Lord. When told by the Lord to put his sword away, he obeyed. He followed the group from a distance, and surely felt helpless at that point. Even though John had connections to get inside the palace of the high priest, there is no record of him coming forward in defense/allegiance to the Lord. So, even John, along with the rest, denied the Lord by their inaction.

    -that Peter was the one with faith enough to walk on water. That after conversion was unafraid of arrest and imprisonment. With the exception of chapters 6 and 7, Peter is mentioned a little or a lot through the first twelve chapters of Acts. And with exception of 6,7, and 8, is the face and voice of the church leadership, God giving witness by signs and wonders (his last recorded miracle being the messenger to raise Dorcas from the dead).

    -that he was doing just what the Lord instructed, when the vision from the Lord told him when to go to the Gentiles. He reaffirmed his obedience to that instruction in Acts 15:6-11, testifying in defense of the dissension and disputation from Paul and Barnabas. As far as following the leading of the Spirit, folks forget that the Spirit forbade Paul and Silas from proceeding into Asia. God lets one know where to go and when, if one is under the guidance of the Spirit.

    **But both for Nicodemus and Paul, things clicked right away when the Holy Spirit integrated their study of the Word with the theme of salvation/justification by faith alone in the Person and doctrine of Jesus the Messiah alone.**

    I don’t recall any word of Nicodemas, after being taught by Jesus, leaving his position as a ruler of the Jews, and joining the group of disciples (perhaps joining the seventy). I know he became a believer, but he showed no unwavering vocal support at the trial either. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if he WAS part of the 120, or the 3,000 on the day the Spirit was poured out.

    Paul was led by the Spirit to a preacher (Ananias), who told him: “....The God of our fathers hath chosen thee,....thou shalt be his witness...And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Acts 22:16

    I’m sure that Paul was well aware of what the disciples of Jesus Christ taught. He knew they were being converted daily, and was convinced that they were heretics (Acts 24:14). The book of Acts shows him preaching and baptizing folks, without needless delay, all over the place.

    **Do you think it is not significant that, according to John 4:1-3,**

    Jesus Christ simply was prophesying of the Holy Ghost being poured out, and with that, things would change, with people worshipping the Father in spirit and in truth. He, as throughout the four gospels, right up to the cross, did not ever tell the Jews to stop obedience to the Law. If he had, the Pharisees would have had something concrete to charge him with.

    In several of the records of His miracles, the Lord acknowledged the recipient’s faith, AFTER they SHOWED that they had faith. God told Abraham, after stopping him from sacrificing Isaac, that “..for now I know that thou fearest God....”. Gen. 22:12. Did God know in advance how Abraham would do?..I believe He did. But, he didn’t let Abraham know when he got up that morning to start getting ready for the sacrifice, nor when he bound up Isaac, nor when he laid him on the altar. Only when he took the knife in hand did God stop him.

    **(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)**

    I don’t buy your interpretation of that passage. The Lord was wise, in that he made sure nobody could go and brag that they had been baptized in water by none other than Jesus Christ. Paul would actually have to deal with such vanity, thanking God that he personally only baptized Cripus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanas (however many that was).

    Remember that Andrew was already a disciple of John the Baptist before meeting Jesus. Did Peter already know of John’s baptism through Andrew, even before Andrew’s meeting of Jesus? Did James and John also know of John’s baptism before meeting Jesus? (James and John were fishing partners of Peter. Lk 5:10)

    I believe that Jesus had his disciples performing the same baptism into repentance as John, else there would have been a clarification otherwise (Jn 3:22-24).

    **What it is not, is a rite of imparting forgiveness of sins.**

    You’re interpreting things from the wrong side of Calvary. After the resurrection, with the new covenant now in force, the Lord commanded baptism, in the NAME (’Son’ is not a name, but a title). HE told THEM (his disciples)that THEY go forth and remit sins (Jn 20:23). Hence the following of the commissions by the Lord, with the Acts 2:38 intructions.

    Could go much longer, but past bedtime. Hopefully you didn’t get snowed in or lose electricity.

    God bless, FRiend.

  • Donald Trump comes out against letting states manage federal lands?

    01/23/2016 9:55:50 AM PST · 156 of 251
    Zuriel to boycott

    **I like Cruz but his voice just grinds.**

    I like what Palin says (most of the time), but can hardly stand to listen to more than a minute of her voice. I’m spoiled. My wife has a voice that is just off the charts attractive, no matter what she is saying. Sounds biased, but other people that know my wife have said the same thing.

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/22/2016 8:39:43 PM PST · 58 of 60
    Zuriel to imardmd1

    **..into discipleship with a man who has studied the Bible daily for years,..**

    Jesus put four fisherman and a tax collector out in front of the other seven, when it came to sharing some of their personal backgrounds for us in the scriptures.

    But, who had to be physically blinded, as well as scolded by an invisible source, to finally realize the error of his ways? Paul, of course, who was very well educated in the scriptures by the elite, and in other subjects as well.

    Nicodemas was no slouch, yet was admonished by the Lord: “Art thou a master of Israel, and knoweth not these things?” Jn 3:10

    Jesus said, “I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.” Matt. 10:25

    Jesus also said, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Matt. 7:14

    Look at Apollos (Acts 18:24-28):
    an eloquent man,
    and mighty in the scriptures,
    was instructed in the way of the Lord,
    fervent in the spirit,
    taught diligently the things of the Lord,

    but LACKED the conversion instructions. How do I know this? because the passage tells me that he only knew the baptism of John.

    It only took a couple of tent makers, Aquila and Priscilla, that had been converted under Paul, to get him straightened out. As highly educated as he was, he was still teachable.

    And of course, as soon as that account ends, we find Paul encountering the ‘certain disciples’ that were of a similar condition to Apollos, pre-correction.

    The obsession to pinpoint a precise split second of crossing to faith from unbelief is something that only God knows, so I don’t try to nail down the condition of someone’s heart. The middle two types of soil, in the parable of the sower, show seed dying, and new life coming from it, only to die by failure. That tells me that I’m not to decide who’s not ready to receive the Word of God, but to just testify of it. (the sower didn’t try to be hyper-selective about where his seed was sown.)

    But again, this obsession to declare when someone has faith before even they move a muscle, is trying to be God. For even in his own testamonies, there was action shown by the person(s) involved, before their faith was acknowledged.

    God’s wisdom in doing that is surely deeper than we can know. But, by having that requirement, he gets the recipient to involve himself wholely (physically and emotionally) to the matter. One of the biggest problems in Christianity (loosely speaking) is the argument that saving faith comes without action. Therefore anyone is saved, and the result is loosened morality, empty churches, etc. (after all, all one has to do is think the confession, right?)

    The dogged effort by many to fight, ignore, ‘retranslate’, or devalue Acts 2:38, tells me that the devil absolutely despises it.

    Continuing to discuss the Word is not a problem. How quickly I can, is variable.

    Praying you don’t have any serious trouble from the snowstorm, imardmd1. I hate snow (kinda sorta).

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/19/2016 6:32:50 PM PST · 54 of 60
    Zuriel to imardmd1

    **When you’ve done that, come back and tell us what you’ve learned (Heb. 6:1-3).**

    Ok, off work, and have read as fast I can the ‘seven baptisms’ article.

    I will begin at the last one just to show how wrong the Dr can be at times in his presentation:

    His interpretation of ‘baptism for the dead’ is just as bad as the Mormon’s. Like them, he sees it as actually being baptized in place of someone that is dead. Only he sees it as wrong, whereas they see it as right.

    The confusion is that they fail to see the context:

    Paul starts chapter 1Cor. 15 teaching of Christ resurrection, and shifts gears at verse 12, telling of the doubters arguments about no resurrection, and the hopelessness if Christ is not. This continues through verse 19, then he diverts for a few verses to teach of the Lord’s resurrection, and the results of it. Then.....

    ...in verse 29, he continues the thought from 19. He is saying that, why be baptized into Christ if he is not risen, or his saints will not rise from the dead?

    That’s the context, and Dr. Wittman missed it by a mile.

    Now, back to the very beginning of his article:

    His introduction is such a give away to his wordy goal: discount water baptism as a command from Jesus Christ and his apostles. Then he doesn’t even mention Acts 2:38 in his first reference, Acts 2:41,42.

    He moves on to another passage he thinks will discount water baptism, Heb. 6:1,2.

    Context:

    Paul is writing to people that have already been born again, having obeyed the same instructions as given Acts 2:38. Need proof?...

    Heb. 2:3,4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will.

    If that doesn’t sound like reference to the happenings in the Gospels and Acts, I don’t what does.

    Heb. 6:1,2 shows the Acts 2:28 message is known to the reader. The point being made by the writer is that the foundation is laid, and doesn’t need to be laid again in THEIR lives.

    When Wittman continues his introduction, complete with his own personal interpretations, he gets to Acts 2:38, only to leave a GAPING hole in it. Guess what’s missing?... Remission of sins!!

    There wasn’t much point in continuing, but I moved on to ‘Baptism of Disciples or Water Baptism’. I sped down through the scripture reading, that gave various accounts of water baptism, then got to this.........confusion:

    In the intro to that segment, I see an expected dodge:

    “So effective was his preaching that the question was asked by those who heard, “O men! Brothers! What shall we do?” In addition to the brief answer to, “Repent at once and be baptized!” recorded by Luke, Peter exhorted and earnestly testified “with more other words” (Acts 2:40 APT).

    The brief answer; I’ll say it was brief. No mention of remission of sins, or even the name of Jesus.

    Then in his first of the seven step break down he uses, there is this:

    “When Peter first preached The Gospel and opened the Kingdom to the Jews with the keys The Lord Jesus Christ had given to him,” (I agree with that part), “he preached The Gospel of Christ and the necessity of repentance for Salvation followed by the command to be baptized at once.” (maybe the APT tries to say that, but my KJV says, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.) “A few days later Peter had a little better understanding of The Gospel.”

    That last line?!?.....Boy, the ‘Dr’ sure throws the Lord Jesus’ teaching skills under the bus, with that interpretation. Not only that, but by Wittman’s interpretation, Peter must have backslid in his instruction giving, for he commanded that Cornelius and his household be baptized in the name of the Lord, pronto. ( a side note: how many times did you need to be told how to turn on a microwave oven? Just making a point on how often instruction have to made in detail.)

    I’m not going to spend half the night pointing out how inaccurate Dr Wittman’s piece is. I think that I’ve presented enough. But, for him to start out on a poorly built foundation was not good. I will go to your comments now:

    ..”by faith alone in the Jesus of the Bible alone, apart from the works of man.”

    How can you claim faith and deny his command? It’s the power of his name in water baptism that remits sins. Being buried with Him gets the blood on you, or there could be no remission in it.

    **You don’t interpret Acts 2:38 correctly nor apply it correctly,**

    That’s your opinion.

    **you neglect Martha’s salvation (Jn. 11:25-26).**

    Jesus kept the Law through his entire walk to the cross, and reminded other Jews to do the same. I imagine that Martha, Mary, and Lazarus were good faithful Jews, in order to be in the Lord’s inner circle of close friends. The Lord told Martha to believe in him. Do you think that included his commandments?

    The John 11 passage is only days or weeks from the crucifixion, and a couple of months from the 120 meeting in the upper room, and the Spirit poured out. In hours, about 3,000 had gladly been baptized. JMO, but I wouldn’t doubt that Martha and siblings were including in that big event. For one thing it was the feast of Pentecost. And Martha’s hometown wasn’t very far from Jerusalem.

    **You neglect the salvation of the thief believing in Jesus Lord alone in his death torment (Lk. 23:43).**

    He was under the Law. Not only was the testator not dead when that promise was made, the thief didn’t need the Holy Ghost, because that Jesus Christ was not yet glorified.

    **You bring up (and mis-apply) Hebrews 9,**

    Your opinion.

    ..**particularly the salvation of the army of faith heroes mentioned in 11.**

    Able offered a better sacrifice by faith. I’m assuming Enoch did as well, for he pleased God. The list of obedience: built an ark, left Haran, pushed out a baby while quite old, etc. Do you think that any of the OT faithful discontinued to offer sacrifices pleasing to God?

    ..**but you fail to shaw a complete understanding of what purpose God uses the New Testament baptisms for.**

    I think that I do a much better job than Dr Wittman.

    (I’m not particularly impressed with his APT version either. Searched a bit but couldn’t find it.)

    You told me to read and get back to you. I have.

    Rightly divide the Word. Keep in context. Keep trying.

    God guide you, I pray.

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/18/2016 8:23:17 PM PST · 47 of 60
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **like having to swim in raw sewage sometimes.**

    A literal comparison? You’ve actually done that?

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/18/2016 8:19:58 PM PST · 46 of 60
    Zuriel to Smittie

    **Romans 10:9
    Ephesians 2:8-9**

    Those two epistles, as were all of them, written to souls that already were born again, or at least knew how. The first few verses in most of them make that clear. Hebrews requires further reading, but gets there.

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/18/2016 8:13:13 PM PST · 45 of 60
    Zuriel to imardmd1

    The tabernacle was a figure of the heavenly. Hebrews 9:18-23 covers the topic, showing the blood applied to objects in the tabernacle and to the people.

  • Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A Saved Man As the Bible Teaches?

    01/18/2016 8:05:19 PM PST · 44 of 60
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **So many folks are strung up on cults, and works-based theology. Others insist you must be “baptized” (the right way) to be saved.**

    So many folks are strung up not doing works:

    Like the Pharisees that went bonkers when Jesus healed and raised the dead on a day you weren’t suppose to work.

    When the rich young ruler asks the Lord what he needed to do receive eternal life, Jesus gave him the Law checklist. The young man replied that he had kept the Law. Then the Lord told to go and sell all that he had, and distribute it to the poor, and come and follow Him.

    If the fellow had walked off to go and sell his riches, would your ‘no works’ predecessors have headed him off at the pass to tell him that would be doing works for salvation?

    Yet the Lord and his disciples commanded baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

    Quoting or referencing scriptures that have the word ‘believe’ in them do not necessarily go into the details of rebirth. I recommend that you do not skip those that DO.

    Once again, the epistles were written to souls that already were born again, or at least knew how. The first few verses in most of them make that clear. Hebrews requires further reading, but gets there.

    Once again, Acts 16:31 is followed by 32, where the word of the Lord is taught to the jailer and his household. 33 mentions that they all get baptized.

    Acts 2:38.....do you believe it?

  • The Death and Vanity of David Bowie

    01/16/2016 12:36:43 PM PST · 140 of 240
    Zuriel to BraveMan

    **To those convinced David Bowie is destined to Hell, I’d ask, “What is the meaning of the necklace around his neck?”**

    That to some it’s fashionable.

    I’ve noticed celebs wearing a cross since I was just a preteen. I remember (was about 15 I suppose) watching the Tom Jones show on tv with my siblings and parents, and seeing Tom, with his shirt unbuttoned halfway down, and a cross hanging around his neck, gyrating and crooning. Being a skull full of mush (as Rush puts it), I thought to myself, “See, you can be a sex symbol, and still be a Christian.”

    That was a subtle beginning to what would eventually lead me to try and ‘serve two masters’. By the time I was 20, I was in dual lifestyle mode. Church on Sunday. But living the night life on other days of the week. But, knowing deep down that it was wrong, I refused to wear a cross, even though I saw others wearing one while going to the nightclubs and discos (amazingly, though I give credit to my parents and fear of God, I never did find out what it was like to get drunk).

    I gladly waved goodbye to that way of life shortly after turning 28.

    David Bowie was just one of many that died that same day. His music probably had little or no impact on my life.

    Life is a vapor.

  • "Why did Jesus insist on being baptized?"

    01/16/2016 12:00:41 PM PST · 30 of 30
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **It’s obvious that not only are you a Calvinist, but you’re also a works-based salvation promoter.**

    Well, you’ve probably offended any FR Calvinists that are following this back and forth. I was a Calvinist from my childhood through my 28th year. They don’t regard water baptism any higher than your belief system.

    I promote the Word as it is written. Jesus Christ commanded rebirth, and instructed his disciples on how this was to be accomplished. Before his ascension, only his disciples were made aware of his DETAILS for conversion (see the Lord’s commissions at the end of the gospels). Remember, even Peter was not converted until his upper room infilling on Pentecost. For Jesus had told them that he had to physically leave before the promise of the Spirit could come.

    **Ephesians 1:13**

    Aren’t you aware that the first Ephesians to hear the truth were baptized pronto by Paul, right after hearing his instructions? (Acts 19:1-5, with verse 6 showing them that they then received the Holy Ghost). You reference verses, like Eph. 1:13, but fail to notice that the context is this: Paul was writing to people that were ALREADY born again.

    Eph. 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus.”

    **Christians saved only by the Holy Blood of Christ.**

    I’m see that we both agree that the blood of Jesus Christ washes away all sin. I’m sure we agree that it is spiritually applied to our souls. The difference is WHEN his blood is applied to one’s soul.

    The scriptures, when taken in context and as a whole, show repentance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. That’s when the Lord applies his blood on you.

    The Word is complete with types and shadows of this conversion. With the institution of the Law, it wasn’t enough that the sacrifice and shedding of blood take place; the blood had to be applied to all concerned (Heb. 9:18-23).

    Consider, when Paul reminded those converts in Corinth of the dangers of falling into the same sinful behaviors, as the Israelites did in the wilderness, he said:

    “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were BAPTIZED unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;” 1Cor. 9:1-2

    Using that type and shadow, under your belief system (as was with my Calvinist teaching), crossing the Red Sea would not have been a life saving requirement for the Israelites.

    If nothing else, this type of discussion will further our study of the Word. Something good always comes from that.

  • "Why did Jesus insist on being baptized?"

    01/15/2016 5:32:33 PM PST · 28 of 30
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **And you cherry pick one or two verses about “baptism” and throw out the rest of the Bible on real salvation.**

    Then I suggest that you read post #14. There’s a lot more than two verses about baptism in that one.

    What am I throwing out?...I’ll tell you what I’m throwing out. I throwing out the notion that people can believe on Jesus Christ and ignore his commandments on baptism.

    **The jailer was clearly saved before being baptized.**

    How can you be sure?...you reference Acts 16:30,31, and stop short of 32, where the WORD of the LORD is preached to them (which probably included baptism, because in 33 that’s what happened).

    **Baptism is done in obedience for Jesus, it has NOTHING to do with being saved.**

    Then here is a revised version of Acts 2:38, which imo is more suited to your belief system:

    Repent for the remission of sins, and you will have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and when convenient, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

    **Keep believing and deceiving others that you must “work” for your salvation.**

    If, with that comment, you hadn’t chose to judge what I believe, I might not have bothered to reply.

    Works? Then do not allow anyone to make any effort to go and hear a preacher.

    Folks like to quote Romans 4:3 (”..Abraham believed God..”), but fail to notice that Paul was quoting Genesis 15:5, a verse where God counted Abraham as righteous, AFTER:

    -hearing God’s call,
    -traveling over 400 miles (the old fashioned hard way) with all his company and possessions,
    -built two altars (and most likely offered sacrifices on them),
    -met Melchizedek, after a 150 mile round trip, complete with warfare and retrieval of captured friends and family.

    The Devil believes in God. He just can’t obey God. Believing on Jesus Christ includes obeying his commands.

    Walk a mile to hear a preacher teach the word of the Lord is fine, right? But if the preacher teaches you to be buried with the Lord in baptism for the remission of sins, that’s ‘our own works’?...Not if it wasn’t our own idea.

  • "Why did Jesus insist on being baptized?"

    01/14/2016 6:57:30 PM PST · 25 of 30
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **We shouldn’t be interested in a man’s opinion on this subject.**

    A very good example of man’s opinion, is picking verses that either leave out ‘the rest of the story’, or taking the teaching out of context.

    **Acts 16:30-31**

    The rest of the story:

    32. “And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were IN his house”.

    We can see that between vs 31 and 32, Paul, Silas, the keeper of the prison have left the prison and entered into the man’s house.

    33. “And he TOOK them the same hour of the night, and washed there stripes; and was baptized, ha and all his straightway.”

    He took them somewhere. Somewhere where there was plenty of water, for he washed their stripes, and was baptized along with his household.

    34. “And when he had brought them INTO his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house”.

    They came back from somewhere and went back into his house

    **Ephesians 1:12-14**

    The context is that Paul was writing to people that ALREADY had been born again.....

    1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS which are at Ephesus, and to the FAITHFUL in Christ Jesus.”

    He wasn’t writing to people that hadn’t been preached to and converted yet.

    **John 10:27-30**

    Here is more of the Lord’s instruction:

    John 7:38,39: “He that believeth on me as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

    **Romans 10:9-10**

    Another epistle; this one sent to those in Rome, “beloved of God, called to be SAINTS” (Rms 1:7). They too, already knew the gospel, and the Lord’s instructions on rebirth. The first verse of chapter 10 also makes that clear:

    “Brethern.....”

    Their status as born again believers is made clear here as well:

    Rms 6:2,3 “Know ye not, that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him in baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the death by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of like.”

    **John 6:29**
    **John 11:25**

    Believing on Jesus Christ includes believing his commandments for conversion. Look at Luke 22:32, where Jesus tells Simon (Peter), “But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and WHEN thou art CONVERTED, strengthen the brethren.”

    Remember, that’s the same Peter that, if only for a moment, had enough faith to walk on water.

    The Lord commanded them “.. that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his NAME among all nations BEGINNING at Jerusalem.” Lk 24:47

    That was first initiated in Peter’s instruction to those that were told of the Lord’s sacrifice, and had asked, “Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Acts 2:37,38

  • "Why did Jesus insist on being baptized?"

    01/13/2016 6:17:18 PM PST · 14 of 30
    Zuriel to The Final Harvest; Licensed-To-Carry

    You are leaning on man-made tradition. (Also, the thief on the cross was granted forgiveness while the Law was still in effect, which was before the Lord died. The new testament was not in effect until the death of the testator. See Heb. 9:16,17). Consider the scriptural facts:

    The following shows a LOT of proof that water baptism is in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin.

    First of all, is it not right to believe on the Lord as HE instructs us to believe on him? He gives very explicit instructions in being born again, beginning with John 3:5-8. Then, at the end of the Gospels, we read his words of commission to his apostles.

    Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
    Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized.
    Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
    John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.

    Then following those commands, the apostles preached Jesus Christ, commanding repentance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

    Jesus has made it quite clear that if you want his blood on you, you must be buried (by baptism) in his name.

    In Acts 2:37 (Jews) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”

    The wide way answer seems to be, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved”, but no details, such as HOW to believe, contrary to what the Lord and his apostles specifically commanded.

    2:38; Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (note the position of the commas in the KJV.)

    Now I will list the separate DETAILED accounts of water baptism:

    8:12,13 (Samaritans) But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip....

    Notice that they believed, and were baptized. (sounds like fulfillment of the the Lord’s command in Mark 16:16; “He that believeth, and is baptized..”). They had NOT received the Spirit yet. Peter and John were then called to come to Samaria:

    8:16; (For as yet he was fallen upon NONE of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

    The Ethiopian eunuch: 8:35-38; “Then Philip....preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down INTO the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (first detailed witness mentioning water used in baptism).

    10:46,47,48 (Gentiles) “...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord...”. (care to guess what that name is?)

    AND, remember these words of Peter: “Can any man forbid water..”. That is the second detailed witness mentioning water baptism).

    In Acts 11 we find Peter back in Jerusalem, after the conversion event at Cornelius’ house in Caesarea, testifying of their receiving the Holy Ghost. With God giving them the Spirit, his hand was forced to obey God’s ordained plan, and baptize them in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Notice his testamony at that point:
    11:17; “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; WHAT WAS I, THAT I COULD WITHSTAND GOD?”.

    God expected Peter to do HIS part, and baptise them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission sins. Peter HAD to do it, for it was required by God.

    Re-baptism in Ephesus: 19:5,6 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

    1Cor. 1:17 is a declaration by Paul, telling us that his ministry was not just baptism. Otherwise, he would not have baptized ANYBODY!)

    Now, the list of the brief mentioning of baptisms. You may argue that those are Spirit baptisms only. Can you prove that? I say they are water baptisms, or both (and Paul is involved in all but the first of them):

    Acts 2:41 about 3,000 were added.
    9:18 Saul/Paul conversion.
    16:15 Lydia and her household.
    16:33 keeper of the prison and his household, in Philippi.
    18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
    22:16 Saul/Paul again.

    Now, the references to baptism in the epistles, which were written to those ALREADY born again (note the intro to those letters: brethern, faithful, saints, etc., that is the context).

    Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That is certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    5. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    Col. 2:12 is quite similar: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.”

    Buried,...planted.....That sure is clear to me: Paul is referring to water baptism, and Spirit baptism, as separate events, and that both are required.

    1Cor. 1:12-17
    Now is as good of a time as any to address the inconsistancies of the folks that say that water baptism is not essential:

    When faced with passages that mention baptism, but do not specifically say that it was water baptism, they will say it is not talking about water baptism. But, when faced with the passage in 1Cor. 1:12-17, then they wholehearted agree that it is referring to water baptism.
    (I have just taken the afore mentioned Acts 18:8 (Crispus), and solidly put that passage in the water baptism category.)
    Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”
    (Yes, Paul baptized in water at Corinth, in the name of Jesus.)

    But then the ‘not essential’ crowd totally dismisses baptism at times, using the “..Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..”; when Paul JUST got done admitting to baptizing several souls.

    Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.”
    (Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)

    1Peter is also written to born again souls. Look at 1:2, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and SPRINKLING of the blood of Jesus Christ...”.

    1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain, if you are willing to allow it to harmonize with everything presented so far. 20 “...eight souls were saved by water. 21 The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Water baptism is not a bath, but is done in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. That is how it saves. That is how one has the answer of a good conscience toward God. Being buried with him is where you get his blood on you, but his NAME must not be left out.

    If there is no resurrection, then water baptism is a waste of time. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29.

    That is Paul (the one who was not suppose to baptize), saying that if Christ (and the asleep in Christ) rise not, then it is all vain. Of course, we know that is not the case, since Christ is risen, and the Spirit poured out.

    Being born again requires obedience, which is NOT ‘our OWN works’. As Paul said to the saints in Rome:

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18

  • The High Cost of Free Grace

    01/12/2016 3:59:12 PM PST · 37 of 54
    Zuriel to Gamecock; TexasFreeper2009

    TF: God is omnipotent, and yet, he seems to be bound by rules.

    GC: God is indeed omnipotent. He is all powerful. BUT He is not bound by any rules. He cannot do anything that is against His holy nature.

    I say: God is bound by his Word. He cannot lie. He has made promises that he is bound to keep. He swears “by himself” to those promises because there “no greater” to swear by (Heb. 6:13). So yes, God is ‘bound’ by rules, but those rules do not diminish his power at all. Promise to forgive sins? No problem. His mercy abideth forever. He’s not gonna die before someone needs forgiveness. Can’t happen.

  • 10 U.S. sailors in Iranian custody

    01/12/2016 3:14:50 PM PST · 77 of 141
    Zuriel to NFHale

    **Exchange Iranian Valerie Jarret for our American ssilors.**

    What is wrong with you? Don’t you know we always give LOTS more than we get in return?

    I say we give them all Iranians that are in the US, plus all of their muslim ‘brethern’ presently here in trade.

  • Atrazine: Chemical Used to Chemically Induce Homosexuality & Sexual Confusion

    01/08/2016 10:17:46 PM PST · 23 of 38
    Zuriel to sparklite2

    **Leftist education is doing it all by itself.**

    That’s for sure. And the poor kids are being taught by their liberal brainwashed parents before they go to kindergarten.

  • Atrazine: Chemical Used to Chemically Induce Homosexuality & Sexual Confusion

    01/08/2016 10:13:03 PM PST · 22 of 38
    Zuriel to free_life

    While I do look back with disappointment at how careless I was back in the 70’s, when handling ag chemicals, I haven’t had any side effects that I know of.

    I had my arms all the way submerged in Atrazine tank mixes, when the inert carrier turned to cottage cheese-like, and plugged the tank outlet. It certainly didn’t slow down my attraction to the opposite sex. Met my wife in 78, and she’ll attest that I’ve certainly not been affected by any chemicals.

    My sons turned out to be just like their dad.

    The biggest problem is that people are taught to accept sin as okay behavior.

  • NCAA Football National Semifinals thread: Oklahoma at Clemson; Michigan St at Alabama

    12/31/2015 1:12:57 PM PST · 39 of 166
    Zuriel to for-q-clinton

    I’ve been in both states a LOT (truck driver). People are people. I once had a fork truck operator load my truck in Dayton that could have less teeth than the ones in your pic.

    I have ‘kin’ that are graduates of ‘Bama’. Smart, God fearing people, successful in their careers, AND really nice.

    Between you (and your choice with the stereotypical pic in #14), and RB Elliot (waaaa), I’m getting a different (but maybe unfair) opinion of OS. Pulling for ND used to be unthinkable.........

    Happy New Year!

  • Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven [John 8]

    12/29/2015 10:57:54 PM PST · 156 of 174
    Zuriel to Irenic

    I was about to go to bed, and read your comments. The following is cut and pasted from an earlier discussion I had with others many months ago. It’s kind of long, but hopefully will give some references to help in your study:

    The following shows a LOT of proof that water baptism is in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin.

    First of all, is it not right to believe on the Lord as HE instructs us to believe on him? He gives very explicit instructions in being born again, beginning with John 3:5-8. Then, at the end of the Gospels, we read his words of commission to his apostles.

    Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
    Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized.
    Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
    John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.

    Then following those commands, the apostles preached Jesus Christ, commanding repentance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

    Jesus has made it quite clear that if you want his blood on you, you must be ‘buried’ in his name.

    In Acts 2:37 (Jews) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”

    The ‘wide way’ answer seems to be, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved”. But no details, such as HOW to believe, contrary to what the Lord and his apostles specifically commanded.

    2:38; “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. (note the position of the commas in the KJV.)

    Now I will list the separate DETAILED accounts of water baptism:

    8:12,13 (Samaritans) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip...”.

    Notice they ‘believed, and were baptized’. (sounds like fulfillment of the the Lord’s command in Mark 16:16; “He that believeth, and is baptized..”). They had NOT received the Spirit yet. Peter and John were then called to come to Samaria:

    8:16; “(For as yet he was fallen upon NONE of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)”

    The Ethiopian eunuch: 8:35-38; “Then Philip....preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down INTO the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (first detailed witness mentioning water used in baptism).

    10:46,47,48 (Gentiles) “...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord...”. (care to guess what that name is?)

    AND, remember these words of Peter: “Can any man forbid water..”. That is the second detailed witness mentioning water baptism).

    In Acts 11 we find Peter back in Jerusalem, after the conversion event at Cornelius’ house in Caesarea, testifying of their receiving the Holy Ghost. With God giving them the Spirit, his hand was forced to obey God’s ordained plan, and baptize them in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Notice his testamony at that point:
    11:17; “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; WHAT WAS I, THAT I COULD WITHSTAND GOD?”.

    God expected Peter to do HIS part, and baptise them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission sins. Peter HAD to do it, for it was required by God.

    Re-baptism in Ephesus: 19:5,6 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

    1Cor. 1:17 is a declaration by Paul, telling us that his ministry was not just baptism. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have baptized ANYBODY!)

    Now, the list of the brief mentioning of baptisms. You may argue that those are ‘Spirit’ baptisms only. Can you prove that? I say they are water baptisms, or both (and Paul is involved in all but the first of them):

    Acts 2:41 about 3,000 were added.
    9:18 Saul/Paul’s conversion.
    16:15 Lydia and her household.
    16:33 keeper of the prison and his household.
    18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
    22:16 Saul/Paul again.

    Now, the references to baptism in the epistles, which were written to those already born again (note the intro to those letters; ‘brethern’, ‘faithful’, ‘saints’, etc., that’s the context).

    Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    Col. 2:12 is quite similar: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.”

    Buried,...planted.....That sure is clear to me: Paul is referring to water baptism, and Spirit baptism, as separate events, and that both are required.

    1Cor. 1:12-17
    Now is as good of a time as any to address the inconsistancies of the ‘water baptism is not essential’ folks:

    When faced with passages that mention baptism, but don’t specifically say that it was water baptism, the ‘not essential’ crowd will say it’s not talking about water baptism. But, when faced with the passage in 1Cor. 1:12-17, then they wholehearted agree that it is referring to water baptism.
    (I have just taken the afore mentioned Acts 18:8 (Crispus), and solidly put that passage in the water baptism category.)
    Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”
    (Yes, Paul baptized in water at Corinth, in the name of Jesus.)

    But then the ‘not essential’ crowd totally dismisses baptism at times, using the “..Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..”; when Paul JUST got done admitting to baptizing several souls. Oh consistancy, though art a jewel.

    Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.”
    (Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)

    1Peter is also written to born again souls. Look at 1:2, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and SPRINKLING of the blood of Jesus Christ...”.

    1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain, if you are willing to allow it to harmonize with everything presented so far. 20 “...eight souls were saved by water.” 21 “The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Water baptism is not a bath, but is done in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. That is how it saves. That is how one has the answer of a good conscience toward God. Being “buried with him” is where you get his blood on you, but his NAME must not be left out.

    If there is no resurrection, then water baptism is a waste of time. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29.

    That’s Paul (the one who wasn’t suppose to baptize), saying that if Christ (and the asleep in Christ) rise not, then it is all vain. Of course, we know that is not the case, since Christ is risen, and the Spirit poured out.

    Being born again requires obedience, which is NOT ‘our OWN works’. As Paul said to the saints in Rome:

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18

    I hope this helps. I will gladly answer any questions. God bless.

  • “Christian” Abortion Doc Says:“I Love”Killing Babies in Abortions,“I’m Proud to Do So”

    12/29/2015 2:48:30 PM PST · 43 of 50
    Zuriel to stylin_geek

    **It’s possibly I find amusement in the idea of someone running away to try and avoid doing as God commands.**

    Yes, running away from God is simply not possible. As David said, God is found at the highest heights and deepest depths. And note that Jonah, though knowing full well that he was to blame for the ship’s impending doom, openly told the crew how to save the ship and themselves: Throw him overboard. Jonah knew he was doomed one way or the other, but didn’t throw himself overboard. Sin doesn’t leave on it’s own accord. God can remove it, but you have to want it gone.

    Nevertheless, I spent my teens as a pole sitter, and then my early 20s as one ‘running from’ God. The deceptive thing was that, as a teen, I had let myself view others that seemed faithful, be my example. That was in spite of seeing them do things that were not ‘Christian’.

    So, when I reached my early twenties, I had reached a point of decision. You see, I had ‘allowed’ myself the same leeway as I had seen in my ‘examples’, and realized that to continue in the direction I was headed, meant to ignore any conviction I was feeling.

    That was made easier by the continued slide into the sloppy way, that not only my church was headed, but others in my area. I returned to ‘pole sitting’ after getting married at 24, but God’s convicting power cornered me as my financial ‘ship’ was sinking at the age of 28 (Jimmah Cahtuh had a hand in it). I heard his call, was born again, and left that old life behind.

    Perhaps if we FReepers bombard heaven with request that God convict this woman, and convert her, then we may see another powerful witness come out of the abortion industry.

    “Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord”.

  • “Christian” Abortion Doc Says:“I Love”Killing Babies in Abortions,“I’m Proud to Do So”

    12/29/2015 1:58:27 PM PST · 41 of 50
    Zuriel to Morgana

    **Oh please, even Jezebel did not stoop this low. King Harod yes but I don’t recall Jezebel was out baby killing.**

    Jezebel had ‘priests’ to do the ‘aborting’.
    Herod wasn’t religious about killing kids. He was worried about being overthrown by a new king.

  • Genesis contradictions?

    12/29/2015 1:51:19 PM PST · 22 of 43
    Zuriel to eastsider

    **You’re dead when your bain is dead.**

    And your brain is dead when the blood is dead. Life is in the blood.

  • “Christian” Abortion Doc Says:“I Love”Killing Babies in Abortions,“I’m Proud to Do So”

    12/29/2015 11:35:32 AM PST · 12 of 50
    Zuriel to Morgana

    **Have no idea what church this doctor grew up in.**

    Well, wherever it was, I’m guessing that her favorite bible character in sunday school was ‘Jezebel’.

  • Genesis contradictions?

    12/29/2015 11:02:47 AM PST · 17 of 43
    Zuriel to GonzoII

    If God says that he created the heaven and the earth, and all therein, in 6 days, so be it.

    Which is harder, doing that, or making a completely dead body (every last cell dead) alive again?

    I have a 61 yr old brain. Just the massive audio/video storage ability is amazing, let alone the other capabilities. God can restore all of that memory, even after that brain has been totally and completely dead for days. Contrary to the doctors opinion of when death takes place; you are dead when the blood is dead.

    God’s creation is a miracle to us, but, routine for God. His ways are simply past finding out.

  • How long does it take to read through The Bible in a year? [Less than 10 minutes a day]

    12/28/2015 5:41:32 PM PST · 44 of 47
    Zuriel to Boogieman

    **Some people are too intimidated by the heft of the Bible to even try to read it at all.**

    Very true. I’ve encountered people that say they have started reading it, and then lose interest. Usually because they ran pronto into a seemingly unimportant and boring stretch, such as Esau’s linage (dukes, etc.). Or they get to the extensive details of the Law, and spinout. In those cases, I tell them to keep a piece of paper in the front of the bible with those skipped passages, noted for future reading. It’s better to keep reading with interest in the subject (better retention) than to lose interest and quit.
    Even for the very well versed, in the history and geography of the promised land, trying to follow the boundaries of each of the twelve tribes is not very easy.

    The Bible is book like no other, in every way. As such, it requires guidance. That’s why there are messengers throughout it. Even the educated souls can read it and not understand it (Acts 8; the Ethiopian eunuch).

    Even though there is nothing wrong with reading it from front to back (which I have several times), I encourage casual first time readers to do the NT first, as it refers regularly to the OT so much that by the time one is finished with the NT, one has a good general overview of the OT. THEN read the OT.

    For those I encounter people that are really hungry for God, and want the ‘biggest bang’ for their 1 or 2 hour read, I tell them to read the book of Acts, because spiritually and historically that’s where human race still is: learning of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. It refers not only to OT facts, but to facts found in the four gospels.

  • Joel Osteen and The Prosperity Gospel

    12/27/2015 11:33:54 AM PST · 23 of 61
    Zuriel to prisoner6

    **I will say it’s also not God’s purpose in anyone’s life to make people poor, ill and miserable.**

    Well then, you should do just great if you happen to be a (Christian) merchantman and get shipwrecked on the coast of Iran or Libya.

  • Joel Osteen and The Prosperity Gospel

    12/27/2015 11:23:26 AM PST · 22 of 61
    Zuriel to leaning conservative

    **It makes me sad that there are people out there so vulnerable to these leeches.**

    Some folks just have to learn the hard way. Remember the woman that had suffered many things in trying to be healed from her issue of blood? There are people that go to live with the ‘Philistines’ because things are going bad where they live (Abraham and Isaac), but then they realize that they are not in God’s will, even though it seemed like the right place to be at the time.

    **And Joel Osteen, those close together gopher eyes & creepy smile just makes me want to slug him.**

    Disliking someone, because of physical aspects they were born with, is not a good reason for that behavior. Even a smile is genetic because of the bone and muscle structure.

    I will say that hating someone’s hairdo is acceptable, IMO. My wife hasn’t worn makeup for almost 33 years. Neither one of us misses it. I’m so conditioned to it, that it’s often the first thing I notice on a woman.

    But, hating sin is inherited from God, and is a must.