Posts by Zuriel

Brevity: Headers | « Text »
  • Walking With Jesus as a Former Catholic

    03/03/2015 8:48:38 PM PST · 10 of 92
    Zuriel to NKP_Vet

    **Scott Hahn was a Presbyterian minister**....

    that didn’t know how (Acts 2:38) to be born again,....

    **the top student in his seminary class**....

    that didn’t teach how (Acts 2:38) to be born again,....

    **a brilliant Scripture scholar**....

    that didn’t know how (Acts 2:38) to be born again,....

    **Kimberly, also a top-notch theology student in the seminary**....

    and didn’t learn how (Acts 2:38) to be born again,....

    **and went through a tremendous “dark night of the soul” after Scott converted to Catholicism.**....

    and they are still in the dark.

    People like them are proof that “not many wise, not many mighty....”.

    Roman Catholicism is a vain show, top heavy with ritual, and man-made traditions.
    I could really go on, but I’m already cutting out too much sleep tonight.

  • Two Things to Keep in Mind When Evangelicals Turn Catholic

    03/03/2015 5:48:30 PM PST · 33 of 35
    Zuriel to LurkingSince'98

    **And which one of these witnesses are lying?**

    You can call it lying if you want. I’ll call it being deceived.

    Remember the parable of the sower and the seed? The seed is the Word. Never mind the seed that fell on the wayside. It didn’t take root at all. Two-thirds of the seed that SPROUTED, failed to produce, because of the poor soil and competition for nutrients.

    There is still hope for those still alive on your lists. They could still be ‘fed and watered’ properly.

  • Genuine Christians are dead to sin while being alive to God

    03/01/2015 8:20:49 PM PST · 17 of 17
    Zuriel to .45 Long Colt

    **I can say with certainty that salvation isn’t a reward for our belief and good behavior.**

    We certainly don’t earn salvation, but to ignore his commands for conversion, especially in his commissions(Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23), and those being instituted for the first time in Acts 2:38, falls into the danger zone of unbelief, imo.

    **it’s by grace through the means of faith in Christ alone.**

    That’s correct, as long as one is including the Lord’s will (his words) as ‘faith in Christ alone’.

    For to resist his commissions, that teach conversion, is resisting his will. If one believes in predestination, then one believes that there are indeed those that do not regard his commands for conversion by pre-ordained plan.

    I am glad that he chose me to be born again, as per his will, if that be the case.

  • Genuine Christians are dead to sin while being alive to God

    03/01/2015 5:09:25 PM PST · 13 of 17
    Zuriel to .45 Long Colt

    “Choose this day whom ye shall serve”.

    **..that salvation was some sort of reward for believing..**

    Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned”.

    The Lord is not playing around. We must believe HIS way.

  • Genuine Christians are dead to sin while being alive to God

    03/01/2015 4:56:36 PM PST · 12 of 17
    Zuriel to Salvation; RnMomof7

    **Mere men’s words?**

    Call her out on it, it’s only right to do so.

    As the writer attempts to prove again, you too can skip the commissions of the Lord (Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23), and the command of his messenger, Peter (Acts 2:38), go straight to Romans (a book addressed to people that have been born again), and tell souls that they have been born again without obedience.

    Blind leaders like that writer also point to God justifying Abraham without works, failing to point out that leaving Haran was not Abraham’s idea, nor was making an altar for sacrifice at Bethel. When God made that declaration of faith (Gen. 15:6), Abraham had been following the Lord’s orders for almost ten years after leaving Haran.

    The Calvinists (and those like-minded) need to take Gen. 15:6, and move it in between Gen. 12:3, and 12:4. And while they are doing a reprint, they might as well remove the detailed conversion accounts in the book of Acts as well. Especially 16:32-34. (if they are offended, know that when I believed the way they do, I too was offended by the Truth).

    Notice how this blind leader of the blind stops short of Romans 6:16,17 “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made FREE from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

    The constant quoting of verses from Romans 10, without context exposes a blind leader as well.

    The chapter starts with “Brethern”, and proceeds to let them know that the Jews and Gentiles can both be saved, that God is no respecter of persons.

    See the context...Paul is addressing the brethern, when he says, “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

    People (like this writer probably has), will readily quote Romans 10:13, and not continue, using that verse as a complete instruction on salvation (when the next verses point out that the message must come from preachers sent from God).

    That way of teaching is like quoting John 3:16, and ignoring the verses that define ‘believing’ leading up to it. The original preachers of salvation in Jesus Christ are his own hand picked apostles. And to see what they preached, one goes to Acts. They have to hear the gospel from a preacher sent from God, before they can know HOW to believe on the Lord

    The people Paul’s addressing in Romans believed that baptism in the name of Jesus was for the remission of sins.

    I find it amazing that the writer will quote the following, and not teach that the baptism spoken of in that passage is literally talking about the same baptism found in Acts 2:38:

    **1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:1-4 NASB)**

    The writer quotes Ephesians, where Paul opens the letter saluting those saints. Paul rebaptized 12 souls there in the name of Jesus, after which they received the gift of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance (the ‘sound’, whose origin is not known, that the Lord said would be heard when one is born of the Spirit).

    All this skipping of the Lord’s commissions, and the testimonies in Acts to preach salvation is like a pilot leading a load of passengers into a jet liner, to take them on a trip, when the plane just so happens to be waiting on new engines.

  • Getting Back to the Ancient Church (Reprise)

    03/01/2015 10:48:35 AM PST · 104 of 153
    Zuriel to AppyPappy

    Acts 2:11”....we do hear them speak in our tongues THE WONDERFUL WORKS OF GOD”.

    “And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking of bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, PRAISING GOD,....”. Acts 2:46,47

    Is praise of God not worship, in your mindset?

  • Getting Back to the Ancient Church (Reprise)

    03/01/2015 10:39:49 AM PST · 102 of 153
    Zuriel to theBuckwheat

    **5) did the Church that met on the first Pentecost know that Jesus was indeed going to return to earth to sit on the throne of His father David? That this means the royal lineage of David must continue to the day He returns? (Luke 1:32, Acts 2:29-30!, Acts 15:16, Amos 9:11)**

    From the birth of Christ, until he returns from heaven, there is no continued royal lineage following Him, seeing he ever liveth. All that preceded him died, and stayed dead.

  • Getting Back to the Ancient Church (Reprise)

    03/01/2015 10:27:22 AM PST · 98 of 153
    Zuriel to AppyPappy

    **Worship is not intended for converting souls. Worship is focused on God, not man.**

    The thread is titled “Getting Back to the Ancient Church”. You can’t get any more ancient than Acts chapter 2; which starts with souls in one accord, worshipping God in verse one (I don’t think they were in one accord about something secular), and then in verse two thru four, the Holy Ghost is poured out.

    The next nine verses show the excitement of the event.

    The next twenty-three verses show peter testifting of what has just happened, and why; preaching Jesus Christ’s witness of words and deeds, and death, burial, and resurrection.

    The next verse shows the listeners responding, saying, “Men and brethern, what shall we do?”

    Then Acts 2:38,39: “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”

    Now, very likely in the span of verses 2 thru 39, less than an hour has elapsed since the Spirit was first poured out.

    Skipping out on the beginning is what is wrong with so many church organizations today. They have a foundation that is missing pieces.

  • Who Is Watching Joel?

    02/28/2015 9:38:47 PM PST · 93 of 118
    Zuriel to Harmless Teddy Bear

    That’s right. And I’ve been letting this miserable winter irritate me. I’m a truck driver, pulling flatbed or stepdeck during the winter months. The dealing with the cold while chaining, strapping, tarping, etc. is draining on a 60 yr old.

    I told my wife that I now hate winter more than ever. I hate winter so much, that if the guvmint knew how much I hate winter, they would have me arrested for a hate crime.

  • Who Is Watching Joel?

    02/28/2015 6:30:30 PM PST · 62 of 118
    Zuriel to Harmless Teddy Bear

    LOL!

  • Who Is Watching Joel?

    02/28/2015 6:26:29 PM PST · 60 of 118
    Zuriel to Maudeen

    **Laodicea was the last and worst of the seven churches of Asia. We are there. Lukewarm at its finest in America.**

    Lukewarm fits more than America. But, the seven Spirits of God are still on the earth, for the seven candles all burned at the same time. There are places on this earth of great persecution because of their faith in Jesus Christ; places where churches have great brotherly love. The others are present somewhere, even at this moment. All have something to overcome.

  • A Refresher on “Apostolic Succession”

    02/28/2015 12:58:51 PM PST · 23 of 52
    Zuriel to Salvation

    *It would be built on Simon Peter, Mt 16:18.

    That’s been refuted almost constantly, with Peter himself saying that the Lord is ‘the chief cornerstone’.

    *It must have the Holy Eucharist celebration, Jn 6:42-70, Acts 2:42.**

    If the Lord’s supper was taught as a salvation requirement, then why is PETER not shown spelling it out as such ANYWHERE in Acts? He enforced the Acts 2:38 conversion in three cases (Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles). In none of those accounts did he teach the Lord’s supper as a means of salvation. That’s because he knew it was a symbolic event, done in remembrance of the Lord.

  • Getting Back to the Ancient Church (Reprise)

    02/28/2015 12:39:30 PM PST · 4 of 153
    Zuriel to NRx

    **Well, if we are talking about Protestantism, then very little.**

    If your church is not following Acts 2:38 for converting souls, then yours is seriously lacking in some of the basic foundation, that is thoroughly detailed in Acts (more than once), and that was set up by the Lord and his apostles.

    If your church is using the Lord’s supper as a means of salvation, then yours is teaching a practice that’s not thoroughly detailed in the early church history, as recorded in Acts.

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/25/2015 7:09:56 PM PST · 83 of 105
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    If someone is hungering and thirsting for righteousness, God sends a witness, and makes a way, even in the desert:

    Acts 8:26 “And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, WHICH IS DESERT”.

    There you have Philip enjoying the moment, with the newborns in Samaria, and is told to take a 50 mile hike into DESERT. And what does he find, a hungry heart that believes the message and is baptized........in the desert.

    8:36,37”...See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest...”. There was enough water for BOTH of them to go down into the water.

    If we want to imagine every scenario for conversion, should we just encourage the last moment of life ones? That would really make for a world of chaos, by telling folks that you can wait until the last second, your last breath, to make a decision for Christ.

    Crime would surely increase. Well, sin as a whole would increase, no doubt.

    WAIT! That is what we have now!

    There are multitudes that believe that “Jesus died for my sins”, and live the most ungodly lives. They’ve been told that all they have to do is believe, and they are saved. They aren’t taught repentance. They aren’t taught the Lord’s guide lines for rebirth.

    Jesus Christ wants each one of us to be buried with him. He makes that VERY clear. It’s the main-stream ministers that (not unlike the Democrats) want to add numbers as easily as possible, even if it means rejecting parts of the Lord’s ordained plan (just as the Dems want to reject parts of the Constitution).

    **Where in Acts 2:38 does it mention saving faith? It’s not implied anywhere.**

    You are supposed to believe that obedience to Acts 2:38 is God’s will. That why that verse is there, right after some convicted souls asked, “What shall we do?”.

    **This verse applies to saved Christians only, since it’s assumed they’ve already acquired that saving faith in what Romans 10:9-10, John 6:29, John 11:25.**

    You are interpretting it to suit a presupposed position, instead of believing it like a little child.

    **John 6:29; 11:25**

    You are claiming to “believe on him”, but don’t seem to agree with his commissions. Acts 2:38 agrees with those commissions.

    Here’s another one from the Lord, that he spoke when praying for his disciples: “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through THEIR WORD”. John 17:20

    You choose to reserve the right of scriptural sorting. You like certain verses in Romans. So I go to Romans, and show you context. Here’s one that I gave you, that you need to memorize as much as the others:

    6:16 “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 17 Being THEN made FREE from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

    You select a few verses of 1 Corinthians. So I go there and show you context.

    You select one verse of Acts 16, and leave out the full conversion story. I go there, and show you context.

    **You suggest that there is something that must be done on our part to be “saved” (baptism), steals the meaning of “grace”.**

    Obedience to the Lord is not ‘stealing’.
    You say faith through grace is without works. Then where do you draw the line? How many calories burned to make the confession of faith is allowable? Some people walk miles to hear a preacher. It’s okay to move leg muscles to go hear the preacher. It’s okay to move jaw muscles to make a confession of faith. BUT, it’s NOT okay to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, for that VERY REASON.

    Many haven’t heard this rebirth message taught as the Word teaches it. You have. He is offering you remission of sins (grace) HIS way, not yours. (I fought this doctrine for quite some time, but to no avail. There is too much to refute. The Lord has given ample evidence, even types and shadows:

    The creation: the earth ‘buried at sea’, rises (so to speak), and life comes forth.

    Noah: the Flood buried a sinful world, new life arose from it.

    Moses: condemned to death (remember, he didn’t even have the name ‘Moses’ until he was ‘drawn from the water’ to life.

    The Red Sea: the passover lamb saved the first born, but the Red Sea saved them all;...”our fathers were under the cloud, and ALL pased through the sea; and were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea.” 1Cor. 10:1,2 (They were born of the water and of the Spirit, in type and shadow)

    Jonah: He was buried at sea, but arose from the depths a new determined preacher.

    **You are either saved from the second you believe in Christ during this dispensation or countless verses must be wrong.**

    Meaning verses that mention ‘believe’, or ‘believeth’? You can’t scripturally believe in Jesus Christ, while picking and choosing his words that suit your plan of salvation.

    Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23, all point to Acts 2:38.

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/24/2015 6:35:43 PM PST · 71 of 105
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **Explain Acts 16:31 please to defend your stance.**

    I understand. I was trained the same way. Believe the teachers you have been listening to. Don’t question their authority, or the traditions handed down. Pull Acts 16:31, and leave the rest of the story as unimportant. I’m going to show you how to finish the story, AND break it down:

    The story continues with Paul speaking “unto him the word of the Lord, and to ALL that were IN HIS HOUSE. And he TOOK THEM that same hour of the night, and WASHED their stripes; and was BAPTIZED, he and all his straightway. And WHEN he had BROUGHT them INTO HIS HOUSE, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, BELIEVING in God with all his house.” Acts 16:32-34

    1. We see that the keeper of the prison has brought Paul and Silas into his house, because they speak “the word of the Lord” to the man and all those “IN HIS HOUSE” (unless you think that they somehow got a message to hustle on down to the prison for church service).

    2. “He TOOK THEM” (took them, from where to where, pray tell?). Well, he washed their stripes somewhere besides the house. Some place where there would be plenty of water for the messy job of washing their stripes.

    3. While still AWAY from home, possibly at the same location, they were BAPTIZED, he and all his straightway.
    (you can insist that that is talking about Spirit baptism only. Prove it. I believe it is water baptism, or both water and Spirit baptism).

    4. He brought them back INTO his house,......he and all his “rejoiced, BELIEVING in God with all his house”.

    **Or what about 1 Corinthians 1:14-17?**

    When faced with passages that mention baptism, but don’t specifically say that it was water baptism, the teachers that you probably endorse will say it’s not talking about water baptism. But, when faced with the passage in 1Cor. 1:12-17, then they wholehearted agree that it is referring to water baptism.

    Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”
    He admits to baptizing Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanus.

    And then you think he decided that he was wrong to do so?

    1Cor. 1:17 is a declaration by Paul, telling us that his ministry was not just baptism. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have baptized ANYBODY.

    Now, the list of the brief mentioning of baptisms. You may argue that those are ‘Spirit’ baptisms only. Can you prove that? I say they are water baptisms, or both (and Paul is involved in all but the first of them):

    Acts 2:41 about 3,000 were added.
    9:18 Saul/Paul’s conversion.
    16:15 Lydia and her household.
    16:33 keeper of the prison and his household.
    18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
    22:16 Saul/Paul again.

    Now I will list the separate DETAILED accounts of water baptism (remember, water baptism is the Lord’s will, not mine).

    8:12,13 (Samaritans) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip...”.

    Notice they ‘believed, and were baptized’. (sounds like fulfillment of the the Lord’s command in Mark 16:16; “He that believeth, and is baptized..”). They had NOT received the Spirit yet. Peter and John were then called to come to Samaria:

    8:16; “(For as yet he was fallen upon NONE of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)”

    The Ethiopian eunuch: 8:35-38; “Then Philip....preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down INTO the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (first detailed witness mentioning water used in baptism).

    10:46,47,48 (Gentiles) “...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord...”. (second detailed witness of water in baptism).

    In Acts 11 we find Peter back in Jerusalem, after the conversion event at Cornelius’ house in Caesarea, testifying of their receiving the Holy Ghost. With God giving them the Spirit, his hand was forced to obey God’s ordained plan, and baptize them in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Notice his testamony at that point:
    11:17; “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; WHAT WAS I, THAT I COULD WITHSTAND GOD?”.

    God expected Peter to do HIS part, and baptise them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission sins. Peter HAD to do it, for it was required by God.

    Under your ‘no works’ opinion, those souls were completely born again after the Spirit fell, so Peter had NOTHING to withstand. Also, he could have refused to baptize them. But knew he couldn’t withstand God’s command, for notice his words; “Can any man forbid water..”.

    Re-baptism in Ephesus: 19:5,6 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” (OOPS! Paul baptized ‘about twelve’ people, when he ‘wasn’t sent to baptize’. /sarc).

    Now, the references to baptism in the epistles, which were written to those already born again (note the intro to those letters; ‘brethern’, ‘faithful’, ‘saints’, etc. Like it or not, that’s the context).

    Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    Being born again requires obedience, which is NOT ‘our OWN works’. As Paul said to the saints in Rome:

    16 “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 17 Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

    Col. 2:12 is quite similar: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.”

    Buried,...risen,.....That sure is clear to me: Paul is referring to water baptism, and Spirit baptism, as separate events, and that both are required.

    Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.”
    (Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)

    1Peter is also written to born again souls. Look at 1:2, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and SPRINKLING of the blood of Jesus Christ...”.

    1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain, if you are willing to allow it to harmonize with everything presented so far. 20 “...eight souls were saved by water.” 21 “The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the butting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Water baptism is not a bath, but is done in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. That is how it saves. That is how one has the answer of a good conscience toward God. Being “buried with him” is where you get his blood on you, but his NAME must not be left out.

    **And 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 fails to mention baptism.**

    If you keep reading that chapter you will see it. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29. That’s Paul (the one who wasn’t suppose to baptize), saying that if Christ (and the asleep in Christ) rise not, then it is all vain. If there is no resurrection, then water baptism into Christ is a waste of time. Of course, we know that is not the case, since Christ is risen, and the Spirit poured out.

    **I trust Him alone**

    But do you trust ALL of his WORDS?
    Is it not right to believe on the Lord as HE instructs us to believe on him? He gives very explicit instructions in being born again, beginning with John 3:5-8. Then, at the end of the Gospels, we read his words of commission to his apostles.

    Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
    Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized to be saved.
    Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
    John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.

    Then following those commands, the apostles preached Jesus Christ, commanding repentance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

    Jesus has made it quite clear that if you want his blood on you, you must be ‘buried’ in his name.

    In Acts 2:37 (Jews) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”

    The ‘wide way’ answer seems to be, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved”. But no details, such as HOW to believe, contrary to what the Lord and his apostles specifically commanded.

    2:38; “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. (note the position of the commas in the KJV.)

    Acts 2:38, is it from heaven, or of men?

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/23/2015 7:24:19 PM PST · 60 of 105
    Zuriel to .45 Long Colt

    I’ve heard Mr. MacArthur enough to know that he doesn’t believe Acts 2:38. To me that is terribly vital.

    Nevertheless, I listened to him get as far as ‘the definitive text in the gospels’, concerning the new birth. That’s just the start of the Lord’s definitive texts on the subject. Among other places, He teaches about it in his commissions. While the Lord made clear that HE would be sending (baptizing with)the Holy Ghost, he hammered home to his apostles that THEY were to baptize, that they were to preach repentance and remission of sins, that “whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted..”.

    They followed his rebirth instructions to the ‘t’, with Peter preaching them first in Acts 2.

    These ‘ever learning’ men, such as MacArthur, can’t teach the Acts 2:38 experience because they haven’t experienced it themselves.

    I don’t believe the words of Acts 2:38 are authored by Peter. I believe they are authored by the Lord, and only spoken by Peter.

    The dogged effort to dodge, all the detailed conversions in Acts, by these acclaimed ‘Drs of Divinity’ is telling. If they do attempt to deal with those accounts it’s ‘divide and conquer’: saying, that is water, but that isn’t. It’s important, but it’s not for remission of sins. And on and on.

    The only way for me to REALLY make it plain is to tell my story. I usually avoid to, because it has a lot of ‘I’s in it, and I just related it yesterday on this forum. But, hopefully you can bear reading it.

    For my first 28 yrs I was a Calvinist, but not so different from many other groups that professed a faith that Jesus Christ died for my sins, was buried, and rose again. The big difference was this: The biblical rebirth experience.

    While I had done, as a teen, the ‘give my heart to Jesus’, ‘accept him as my personal Savior’, moments, that are so commonly used as conversion ‘proofs’, deep down I just knew there HAD to be more. It was something that would enter my mind during a church service, or funeral, or just when I would dwell on thoughts of spiritual things.

    My step-mother, an attractive but very worldly woman, stole my dad from my mother. My dad, while an adulterer, was conservative in every other way. I was 23, and figured I understood women enough by then to make a educated opinion: There’s no way the marriage would last a year. I was wrong.

    She visited a church (independent, but like United Pentecostals) simply because it was nearby their new (to them) home. She felt the tug at her heart while there, and refused to go back. But, staying away didn’t fill the hole either. She eventually went back, and had a biblical conversion, following the Acts 2:38 formula. She spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. I wasn’t present, but through the days and weeks saw her change dramatically in almost every way. Her joy was constant. I remained skeptical.

    In the meantime, I married a very lovely woman. She was always curteous to my dad and step-mother, but was adamant: “I’m not going to their church!” That was no problem, for I was in total agreement.

    Then ‘idiot president 1.0’, already letting the economy go out of control, embargoed grain to Russia. Reagan steps in and hits inflation with a sledge hammer. The combined chaos was financial hardship for many, and not just farmers.

    It knocked down my trust in the wisdom of men across the board, myself included. Even made me take a hard look at my church’s leadership. As my studying expanded, I thought it strange that the miraculous experiences of rebirth in the book of Acts were not happening in mainline churchs in my area.

    Then one of my brothers received the same Acts 2:38 rebirth as my step-mother, ONLY, he lived 900 miles away. That wasn’t all, as a couple of months later it happened to my youngest brother, that lived with my dad. I decided I had to step in and ‘save’ my family.

    My wife and I made an exception to our rule, and visited my dad’s church on Father’s day, 1982. We DID have to admit that the people there were genuinely happy, the preacher very neighborly, and not at all pushy. We felt that we were believers, and repentant in our walk with God, so we felt a church change was completely unecessary.

    We didn’t go back for a few months, but only then because of our seeing the command of baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Our Calvinist church didn’t meet on Sunday nights, so we went to the other church at those times for a few weeks.

    My wife and I were baptized, by immersion, in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. We felt glad, and praised God. We still wanted that biblical Spirit birth, that the Lord promises (Acts 2:38) “to them that obey him” (Acts 5:32). A week later, in prayer, my wife began praising God in a language she had previously never spoken, lasting about a minute or so. It was so smooth, as if she had spoken it all of her life. It happened to me almost five months later, during a revival service.

    That was our ‘beginning’, our being born again. It changes your life like nothing else. In my previous years, my reverence for the Word of God kept me from many troubles. The Word is wisdom (that’s why so many can put the scriptures in their own words, call it a commentary, and possibly get paid well for it).

    If you made it this far,
    God bless you

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/23/2015 6:42:23 PM PST · 55 of 105
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **Baptism is a work. It’s something we do to honor Christ but it will not save anybody by itself nor is it necessary for a confessed believer in Christ to do.**

    That’s not what Jesus Christ or his apostles teach. You are just repeating the tradition of men, that hurdle the Lord’s conversion commands.

    **Romans 10:9-10 spells out crystal clear who is saved.**

    Which was written to people already born again:

    Romans 1:7 “To all that be at Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints...”.

    They were reminded of their conversion here:

    Rms 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    17 “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.”
    18 “Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

    Romans 10:13 is also quoted out of context quite regularly:
    “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”.

    Let’s keep it in context by continuing:

    “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?..” Rms 10:14,15

    Now go back to Acts to see how these ‘sent’ preachers preached to the lost, starting with Acts 2:14, and coming to the part where the convicted souls ask, “Men and brethern, what shall we do?”

    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. Acts 2:38

    Is that verse from heaven, or of men?

    I believe it’s from heaven, and it’s author is to be believed, and that Peter was simply the messenger. And I believe that the author is very serious with those words.

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/23/2015 5:59:47 PM PST · 50 of 105
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **Luke 23:43 says what I’m talking about.**

    You can’t be the ‘thief’. Since Luke 23:43, the Christ said “it is finished”, bowed his head, and died. Then he arose, and instructed his apostles to go and teach....to preach repentance and remission of sins......in his name. He told THEM to remit sins.

    Acts 2:38 is where the Lord’s post resurrection will, for ‘whosoever’, is plainly laid out.

  • Question: "I am a Catholic. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?"

    02/23/2015 5:46:29 PM PST · 257 of 312
    Zuriel to agere_contra

    **They eat the Body and drink the Blood of Christ - as Christ taught.**

    Christ taught it as symbolic, for he doesn’t reinforce your view in the commissions (Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23), or in his ordained words that Peter spoke in Acts 2:38.

    In fact, the scriptures show Peter in Samaria (Acts 8), and in Cornelius house (Acts 10). Those folks obeyed the Acts 2:38 plan, but Peter doesn’t teach your ‘mass’ to them.

    I believe he understood the ‘Lord’s supper’ perfectly. It’s the unspiritual folks that don’t, imo.

  • Question: "I am a Catholic. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?"

    02/23/2015 5:21:51 PM PST · 247 of 312
    Zuriel to Gamecock

    **Have you accepted Jesus as your Savior?**

    Has he accepted you? You seem to resist his commissions, and plan for remission of sins. In other words, imo, you don’t seem to be listening to him.

    Acts 2:38, it it from heaven, or of men?

    Many have not been witnessed to, concerning the LORD’S detailed plan. If you don’t believe that Acts 2:38 is from the Lord, then where is it from?

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/23/2015 5:09:13 PM PST · 42 of 105
    Zuriel to .45 Long Colt

    Romans 11:6
    Ephesians 2:8-10
    Titus 3:4-7

    Those are great verses of instruction, written to people who were already born again. That had already followed the Lord’s, and his apostles, commands for rebirth. Acts 2:38 is spoken by Peter, but is the direct order of Jesus Christ, as his commissions prove (Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23).

    And there are several detailed accounts, in Acts, of conversion by the plan ordered by Jesus Christ. You will not find one detailed account of a New Testament conversion in the epistles. You have to go to Acts.

    Why do many of you ‘faith without moving a muscle’ folks ignore the Lord’s own words concerning remission of sins? It’s his plan, not anybody else’s.

    Please search the scriptures to see if these things be so.

  • Salvation by Faith or Works?

    02/23/2015 4:49:35 PM PST · 40 of 105
    Zuriel to Roman_War_Criminal

    **They can never explain the deeds of the thief on the cross who made it to heaven with Christ that day—and he wasn’t even baptized!**

    Jesus wasn’t gone yet.

    The Lord COMMANDS rebirth in John 3:5 “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”. He tells us how it is to be accomplished AFTER his departure, in his commissions: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23. For he said the Spirit (the Comforter) would not come until he is physically gone (John 16:7).

    That rules out the thief needing to be born of the Spirit. Jesus Christ was still there. AND...Christ hadn’t died yet. He hadn’t fulfilled the Law that God ordained, until his death. That’s what his words “It is finished”, and then dying, mean.

    “For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength AT ALL while the testator LIVETH.” Heb. 9:17

  • Hell

    02/22/2015 1:52:08 PM PST · 106 of 112
    Zuriel to epow

    No offense here. Thanks for your concern, though, brother.

    I just like to make sure that people keep the verses in context. Because detailed conversion of souls is best seen in the book of Acts. Romans was written to people that had already experienced the rebirth. It alludes to their past conversion, as my post pointed out.

    God bless!

  • Hell

    02/22/2015 1:23:52 PM PST · 103 of 112
    Zuriel to RoadGumby

    **1) Salvation by grace alone, not by works. There is LOTS of scripture to support this, case in point, see the Thief on the cross.**

    The Lord COMMANDS rebirth in John 3. He tells us how it is to be accomplished AFTER his departure, in his commissions: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23. For he said the Spirit (the Comforter) would not come until he is physically gone (John 16:7).

    That rules out the thief needing to be born of the Spirit. Jesus Christ was still there. AND...Christ hadn’t died yet. He hadn’t fulfilled the Law that God ordained, until his death. That’s what his words “It is finished”, and then dying, mean.

    “For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength AT ALL while the testator LIVETH.” Heb. 9:17

    **The point is that counting on good works to give you righteousness and a ticket to heaven is a LOSING proposition.**

    There those that do good works to prove, to themselves and others, that they are born again. Instead of following the Lord and his apostles instructions on rebirth, they say, “I believe”, and convince themselves they are saved (that was me up to age 28). There’s a story in the gospels that helps paints this picture:

    “And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that Imay have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder,........Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lackest I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.” Matt. 19:16-21

    At least this man knew, even after all that he had done, that he was in need of something more, although that man couldn’t completely let go. To some people, great possessions can be things other than money and property. They can be a tradition, a fellowship with a group of people, a teaching (said and believed to be accurate); any of which may have too great of a hold to let go of.

    Hearing and obeying the call of being born again is ‘following’ Jesus. His commissions demand it, and his apostles enforced it. How much do you love him? (don’t tell me).

    **WHAT are you trusting in to save you?**

    That’s a good question. Is it your trusting in teachers that exclude the Lord and his apostles instructions on being born again, and following blind leaders to the epistles for salvation.

    Acts 2:38: is it from heaven, or of men?

    thanks for your comments.
    God bless

  • Hell

    02/22/2015 9:59:16 AM PST · 102 of 112
    Zuriel to Loud Mime

    This is always the easiest reply, because it is from actual life experience, not just hearing, reading, studying, etc. No looking up scriptures to respond to some debate. Just witness. It’s long, but that’s the way I need to do this.

    For my first 28 yrs I was a Calvinist, but not so different from many other groups that professed a faith that Jesus Christ died for my sins, was buried, and rose again. The big difference was this: The biblical rebirth experience.

    While I had done, as a teen, the ‘give my heart to Jesus’, ‘accept him as my personal Savior’, moments, that are so commonly used as conversion ‘proofs’, deep down I just knew there HAD to be more. It was something that would enter my mind during a church service, or funeral, or just when I would dwell on thoughts of spiritual things.

    My step-mother, an attractive but very worldly woman, stole my dad from my mother. My dad, while an adulterer, was conservative in every other way. I was 23, and figured I understood women enough by then to make a educated opinion: There’s no way the marriage would last a year. I was wrong.

    She visited a church (independent, but like United Pentecostals) simply because it was nearby their new (to them) home. She felt the tug at her heart while there, and refused to go back. But, staying away didn’t fill the hole either. She eventually went back, and had a biblical conversion, following the Acts 2:38 formula. She spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. I wasn’t present, but through the days and weeks saw her change dramatically in almost every way. Her joy was constant. I remained skeptical.

    In the meantime, I married a very lovely woman. She was always curteous to my dad and step-mother, but was adamant: “I’m not going to their church!” That was no problem, for I was in total agreement.

    Then ‘idiot president 1.0’, already letting the economy go out of control, embargoed grain to Russia. Reagan steps in and hits inflation with a sledge hammer. The combined chaos was financial hardship for many, and not just farmers.

    It knocked down my trust in the wisdom of men across the board, myself included. Even made me take a hard look at my church’s leadership. As my studying expanded, I thought it strange that the miraculous experiences of rebirth in the book of Acts were not happening in mainline churchs in my area.

    Then one of my brothers received the same Acts 2:38 rebirth as my step-mother, ONLY, he lived 900 miles away. That wasn’t all, as a couple of months later it happened to my youngest brother, that lived with my dad. I decided I had to step in and ‘save’ my family.

    My wife and I made an exception to our rule, and visited my dad’s church on Father’s day, 1982. We DID have to admit that the people there were genuinely happy, the preacher very neighborly, and not at all pushy. We felt that we were believers, and repentant in our walk with God, so we felt a church change was completely unecessary.

    We didn’t go back for a few months, but only then because of our seeing the command of baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Our Calvinist church didn’t meet on Sunday nights, so we went to the other church at those times for a few weeks.

    My wife and I were baptized, by immersion, in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. We felt glad, and praised God. We still wanted that biblical Spirit birth, that the Lord promises (Acts 2:38) “to them that obey him” (Acts 5:32). A week later, in prayer, my wife began praising God in a language she had previously never spoken, lasting about a minute or so. It was so smooth, as if she had spoken it all of her life. It happened to me almost five months later, during a revival service.

    That was our ‘beginning’, our being born again. It changes your life like nothing else. In my previous years, my reverence for the Word of God kept me from many troubles. The Word is wisdom.

    That’s why many ‘preachers’ (I use the term loosely) can ‘write’ books, and make a nice payday doing so. In most cases all they are doing is putting the scriptures in their ‘own’ words. Folks use the excuse: “The Bible is too hard to understand”. Much of the prophecy is hard, but most of the Word is not not. Mostly, people are just lazy.

    Did you ever prepare a report for a class in school, and simply just copy from a resource, then change some words with those of similar meaning, make shorter or longer sentences? If so, then you too can write a commentary on the Word, find a publisher, and maybe turn a profit. lol

    Seriously, I hope this helps explain my position. If you need more, I’ll try to accomodate.

    God bless

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/21/2015 10:52:01 PM PST · 123 of 132
    Zuriel to boatbums; LearsFool

    **(Titus 3:4-8)**

    Paul (born again person), writing to one of his converts, Titus (born again person).

    The need to fully detail their Acts 2:38 pattern of conversion is not necessary in Paul’s letter to Titus. They’ve both already been to that rodeo.

    **Abraham was NOT justified by faith after working, that is a mischaracterization of what Scripture says and is disproved by the passage cited above, as well as others.**

    Then you had better move Genesis 15:6 back in front of 12:4, cuz Abraham was quite a faithful busy body for over three chapters, before God makes that 15:6 commendation.

    Is it ok to have faith and breath, and breathing not be a ‘work’? (think about the hairsplitting that you are trying to do. Deal with something concrete: Acts 2:38, is it from heaven, or of men?)

    Peace, and God bless

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/21/2015 10:25:15 PM PST · 122 of 132
    Zuriel to ScottfromNJ

    By your interpretation, you have Peter changing his understanding of the events of Acts 10, when relating the events to the brethern in Jerusalem in Acts 11. I see no doctrinal differences, just a few more words.

    Paul’s conversion is in Acts chapters 9, and the retelling of it in chapter 22. The story doesn’t have any doctrinal differences. It’s just told slightly different.

    You have Peter, in Acts 10:47, SAYING: “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost AS WELL AS WE.”

    And you are convinced that Peter didn’t remember that that was the ‘baptism of the Holy Ghost’ until later. Simply because he tells the events with more detail?

    Even verse 45 clobbers your theory. Let’s break it down::

    “And they of the circumcision which believed (already had received Holy Ghost baptism) were ASTONISHED (why would that be?), as many as came with Peter, BECAUSE that on the Gentiles ALSO (see..they KNEW EXACTLY) was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

    I have never seen anyone twist that story up, as much as whoever taught it to you that way.

    **Act 1:5 -Luke 3:16 -Note there’s no mention and inclusion of water.**

    That’s because Spirit baptism is the Lord’s job. HE required his apostles to perform water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, as his commissions collectively show (you can go back and look at them. I was a Calvinist for 28 yrs, and even they will tell you that Matt 28:19 is water baptism, commanded by the Lord).

    **The passage really makes no mention of water.**

    That response to Acts 2:38 shows that you don’t think Peter preached water baptism on that first day. So when did he pick up the nasty habit? Philip takes off, and is baptizing in the name of Jesus, in water; who corrupted him?

    **Here Peter is actually refuting the need for water for salvation, and the passage read correctly with it’s reference to water is actually showing that it’s NOT water that saves.**

    Wow, that’s like looking at a glass of water and saying, “That’s not water in that glass”.

    **“not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”**

    The good conscience is because of being buried with Jesus in baptism for the remission of sins, and BELIEVING it WORKS. You’re NOT taking a bath.

    As I said, you would do well to look look these up (Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23), and compare them to each other, because they don’t contradict, and they are the Lord’s commands.

  • Hell

    02/21/2015 10:09:34 AM PST · 35 of 112
    Zuriel to epow

    Without remission of sins, Hell is the reward.

    **Romans ch 10 v 9-10:”That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from death you will be saved, for it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”**

    Written to people already born again:
    Romans 1:7 “To all that be at Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints...”.

    They were reminded of their conversion here:

    Rms 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” 6:17,18

    **Romans ch 10 v 13:”Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”.**

    Let’s keep it in context by continuing:

    “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?..” Rms 10:14,15

    Now go back to Acts to see how these preachers preached to the lost, starting with Acts 2:14, and coming to the part where the convicted souls ask, “Men and brethern, what shall we do?”

    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. Acts 2:38

  • Hell

    02/21/2015 9:52:22 AM PST · 31 of 112
    Zuriel to Loud Mime

    The ‘faith without twitching a muscle’ crowd is actually quite athletic; triple jumpers, one might say.

    Jumping over the commissions of the Lord: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23.

    Jumping over Acts 2:38 (and really, most of that book).

    Jumping over the examples in the epistles that reminded those folks how they were born again, such as in Romans:

    Rms 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” 6:17,18

    They high hurdle over the efforts of obedience that Abraham performed, BEFORE God first commended him as faithful in Gen. 15:6

    As if that’s not enough, they pole vault over the witness of the Lord Jesus Christ:

    Let’s just look in Matthew for a few examples:

    8:5-13 “There CAME unto him a centurion, BESEECHING him..”..you know the rest, where Jesus says. “..I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel”.

    9:2 “They BROUGHT unto him a man sick of the palsy.....and Jesus SEEING their faith....”.

    9:21 The woman with the issue of blood: “If I may but TOUCH his garment......Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole”.

    15:21-28 The Canaanite woman: “..CAME she, and WORSHIPPED....., “Truth Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master’s table. Then Jesus answwered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith...”.

    Your thoughts?

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/21/2015 9:22:44 AM PST · 92 of 132
    Zuriel to boatbums

    **(I Peter 1:3-9)**

    Written to people ALREADY born again:

    1 Peter 1:2: “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ...”.

    1Peter 3:20,21 “...eight souls were saved by water. The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Good conscience?...Yes, by being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Just don’t do it if you don’t believe it.

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/21/2015 8:44:02 AM PST · 89 of 132
    Zuriel to boatbums

    **We are saved by grace through faith apart from our works.**

    As long as we are in these physical bodies, one simply can’t simply can’t claim faith without a physical sign. Look, your desire for displayed faith without having faith displayed, is not seen in many of the miracles the Lord.

    Let’s just look in Matthew for a few examples:

    8:5-13 “There CAME unto him a centurion, BESEECHING him..”..you know the rest, where Jesus says. “..I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel”.

    9:2 “They BROUGHT unto him a man sick of the palsy.....and Jesus SEEING their faith....”.

    9:21 The woman with the issue of blood: “If I may but TOUCH his garment......Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole”.

    15:21-28 The Canaanite woman: “..CAME she, and WORSHIPPED....., “Truth Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master’s table. Then Jesus answwered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith...”.

    Need I list more?

    And when did God first commend Abraham for his faith?...Gen. 15:6...AFTER he had obeyed the call, moving his entire entourage several hundred miles (the hard way), built altars, paid tithes to Mechizedek.

    **When Abraham willingly put Isaac upon the altar in obedience to God, he did so trusting that God was able to STILL fulfill His promises of making of his seed a great nation. Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead... (Heb. 11:19)**

    That’s right. God expects you to PROVE your faith: “Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God...”. Gen. 22:12

    Sure, God KNOWS what someone will do, BUT he expects you to PROVE your faith. He wants YOU to KNOW that without obedience, you are NOT displaying faith to him.

    I believe that by being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, per his instructions, HE does indeed remit them. It’s the power of his name in baptism. That is why I obeyed Acts 2:38

  • Ye Must Be Born Again (John 3:7)

    02/20/2015 9:44:06 PM PST · 31 of 33
    Zuriel to metmom

    **Then you are in no position to teach as truth something that you say God isn’t clear on.**

    God is clear. I just refuse to be told that I have to judge souls, when no one but Jesus Christ has that authority.

    Acts 2:38, is it from heaven, or of men?

    I believe it is from heaven. You?

    And if it is from heaven, then that is where you find remission of sins.

    You can while away the hours trying to decide who is saved, when only God knows the heart, knows who has truly heard his voice and obeyed his call.

    That is why we call it hope. For if we knew for certain, we wouldn’t be looking through a glass darkly, but face to face.

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 9:22:41 PM PST · 86 of 132
    Zuriel to ScottfromNJ

    **Peter’s realization of true baptism in Acts 11:16 comes after Acts 10:47-48.**

    Whaaat?, you think that when the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius and his household, Peter didn’t realize that it was from God, UNTIL after he baptized them in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. He had already seen the Holy Ghost fall on thousands by that point, and you appear to have him in a state of dementia while preaching to Cornelius. That is WHY he commanded them to be baptized; he and the others had just witnessed the Spirit given. He HAD to step in and command their sins be remitted (see John 20:23).

    So do you believe that Spirit baptism is “true baptism”, and water baptism in the name of Jesus is man-made? If that’s your interpretation, you’ve just declared Acts 2:38 to not be from heaven, but of men. And you seem to have dismissed these as well:

    John 3:5-8; a man must be born of the water and of the Spirit, and how you KNOW when they are.
    Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
    Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized.
    Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
    John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.

    Furthermore, with your interpretation, Peter should have gotten a hold of Philip, and told him to quit performing anymore water baptisms. He failed to stop Paul from baptizing everywhere he went.

    Every anti-water baptism teacher scrurries to 1Cor, 1:17, to say Paul didn’t baptize, when he just got done admitting to it. And from that we understand that he wasn’t sent to perform John’s baptism unto repentance. Because Paul DID personally baptize, and even re-baptized 12 in Ephesus, that had only been baptized unto John’s baptism. And one can argue that he had a hand in these as well:

    9:18 His own conversion.
    16:15 Lydia and her household.
    16:33 keeper of the prison and his household.
    18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
    22:16 His own again.

    1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain,.... 20 “...eight souls were saved by water.” 21 “The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the butting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Good conscience?...Yes, by being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Just don’t do it if you don’t believe it.

    Surely you won’t tell me that Acts 2:38 is a lie. Pray about this.....it’s very serious.

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 6:55:28 PM PST · 83 of 132
    Zuriel to ScottfromNJ

    **Acts 11:16 -“Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.”**

    True, the Lord baptizes with the Holy Ghost. As His commissions prove, He commanded his disciples to baptize in water, in His name for the remission of sins. Which is why upon immediately seeing the Holy Ghost poured out on the Gentiles, Peter HAD to baptize them. Neither he, nor any one else could withstand the Lord’s ordinance, saying, “can any man forbid water”, and then baptizing them “in the name of the Lord” (Acts 10:48)

    **Rom 10:10 -For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”**

    That is a condensed statement. Just like John 3:16 is a condensed statement that follows the Lord’s detailed command of rebirth (3:3,5-8), so is Romans 10:10. Because the Roman saints already knew the details of rebirth:

    Rms 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” 6:17,18

    How about trying this example to see if your way is thorough: You KNOW that there is a place called Crater Lake. You’ve heard a lot about it, even seen photos. Let me see you get there from NJ, with out ANY directions (verbal, maps, gps or compass), without reading any signs, and only driving at night (yeah, you can use headlights).

    Well, that’s what quoting Acts 16:31 and Romans 10:10 is like when not expounding the truth to the lost: sending someone down the road to a destination, but no details on how to get there. That’s what I had for 28 yrs in a Calvinist church.

    Acts 2:38 is the road map to rebirth. Is it from heaven, or of men?

  • Ye Must Be Born Again (John 3:7)

    02/20/2015 1:20:19 PM PST · 26 of 33
    Zuriel to metmom

    Acts 2:38 wasn’t Peter’s idea, and it obviously wasn’t mine either. I heard this conversion teaching from the Lord’s words to his apostles, in the gospels, and then to us in Acts. That was over 32 yrs ago. I heard and obeyed his rebirth instructions (not without first being offended at someone questioning my belief in Jesus Christ).

    If you had never heard it taught before reading it here on this forum, then now you have.

    Who else has heard it in the past, and chose not to regard those instructions from the Lord? Who hasn’t heard yet? Those are questions that we don’t know the answer to.

    **So, tell me, if someone believes, puts their trust in Christ for salvation, and dies without being baptized, where do they go? Heaven or hell?**

    If I knew for certain, I would be God. Mark 16:16 is some ‘tough love’, showing that he is being very firm in his ‘red line in the sand’. It is to be compared along with the Lord’s other words of commission in Matt. 28:19; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23. Again, those are His words, not mine.

  • Ye Must Be Born Again (John 3:7)

    02/20/2015 11:50:12 AM PST · 21 of 33
    Zuriel to Old Yeller

    **You can’t regenerate yourself.**

    That’s right. That’s why we must be born again HIS way, following HIS commissions, as instituted by HIS apostles, first enacted by HIS apostle Peter in Acts 2:38:

    “..Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

    **A dead man doesn’t know he’s dead in order to do something about it.**

    Yes, but when the word takes hold, reaction is required. Just as the convicted hearts on Pentecost asked Peter, “Men and brethern, what shall we do?”, we also, when convicted by the Spirit, must hear and obey Acts 2:38, just as they did.

    Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

  • Ye Must Be Born Again (John 3:7)

    02/20/2015 11:37:22 AM PST · 20 of 33
    Zuriel to Gamecock

    That’s a great start. For John 3 is the Lord’s intro to us concerning rebirth. He commissions it to be preached in Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23. They were assigned their part; He would do his part (send the Holy Ghost). The apostles fulfill that commission, beginning with Peter in Acts 2:38.

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 11:31:02 AM PST · 77 of 132
    Zuriel to metmom

    **The spirit has to be regenerated before any good can come out of man.**

    If we are pointing out that good works, such as giving to the needy, helping the afflicted, etc. only happen by souls regenerated by God, then I know a couple of nice friendly athiests to introduce you to. Regeneration is this:

    Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    **No man can reform himself by following the Lord’s commands for conversion.**

    Is Acts 2:38 from heaven (the Lord’s commands for rebirth), or of men (following man-made works)? Do we hear it and obey it, or not?

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18

    Preaching salvation in Jesus Christ, apart from his instructions on conversion, is preaching a ‘hole’ gospel (something missing). The Son prayed to the Father that souls would “believe on me through their (the apostles) word.” Jn 17:20

    This preaching began in Acts 2, culuminating in Peter responding to the request: “What shall we do?”. Then we see Peter enact the commissions (found in: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; John 20:23) by saying: “..Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 8:52:42 AM PST · 69 of 132
    Zuriel to ScottfromNJ

    **Yes the Galatians scripture is clear and in agreement with what Christ accomplished.**

    It is in agreement with what Christ had done for the Galatian churches, who had already been preached to and converted by the Lord’s ordained plan. But, my concern is the usage of epistle verses (written to people who already know how to be born again) to preach salvation, while ignoring the commandments of the Lord for conversion, which are found in his commissions, and in the instructions given in Acts 2:38.

    For what has the Lord accomplished if people ignore (don’t have faith in) his own words, and the words of his personally taught apostles, when being instructed the way of rebirth?

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 8:10:55 AM PST · 61 of 132
    Zuriel to Mark17

    Amen!

  • Ye Must Be Born Again (John 3:7)

    02/20/2015 8:06:34 AM PST · 14 of 33
    Zuriel to Gamecock

    Is there some sort of olympic trials going on on this forum? Because, you, like others, have posted yet another message from a ‘high hurdler’.

    All of that talk about regeneration, yet no instruction about HOW to be regenerated.......except for the usual hurdling of Acts, and going directly to the epistles; letters written to those that were already born again, or at least knew how to be.

    The writer clearly is an Ahimaaz messenger: He knows a lot, but hasn’t ‘been there’, so he has nothing to tell about the HOW one is born again.

    I will do my best to ask him, as I ask those here: Acts 2:38, is it from heaven, or of men?

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 7:37:04 AM PST · 50 of 132
    Zuriel to ScottfromNJ

    **Galatians 2:21: “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”**

    You do realize the context, I hope...

    Paul is writing “unto the churches of Galatia” (1:2), or anyone displaying their situation: Having been born again (obedience to Acts 2:38; it IS from heaven, and not of men.) some chose to continue in the works of the Law, which was done away with by the Lord.

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/20/2015 7:21:32 AM PST · 45 of 132
    Zuriel to Mark17

    **No more blindness for me.**

    It’s great that God’s been leading you, but do you see this?....

    “..Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Acts 2:38

    Is it from heaven, or of men?

  • Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

    02/19/2015 7:08:23 PM PST · 21 of 132
    Zuriel to RnMomof7

    **Many who believe they are Christians are not. They have a form of righteousness, but it is not the righteousness born from above.**

    That pretty well descibes people that are bypassing the commandments of the Lord for conversion. This writer preaches salvation without any reference to these:

    John 3:5-8; a man must be born again, and how you KNOW when they are.
    Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
    Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized.
    Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
    John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.

    The writer doesn’t mention any of the detailed conversions in Acts, especially the first day:

    In Acts 2:37 (in Jerusalem, where Jesus said would be the start of the Spirit being poured out) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”

    2:38; “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

    **People who are ignorant of God’s righteousness cannot submit to it. Therefore, they go about establishing a righteousness of their own.**

    That is exactly what this writer is promoting by high hurdling the commissions and the book of Acts, and even parts of Romans, which was written to people already born again (see 1:7):

    Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
    4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

    “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18

    **This is why we stress the Sovereignty of God so much here.**

    How about stressing ALL of the sovereignty of the Lord’s ordained plan? This man is clearly stuck in the tradition of the Pharisees. In Matt. 23:23, Jesus Christ ripped the Pharisees for leaving the weightier matters undone. What is weightier in the New Testament than rebirth? Yet this writer doesn’t teach it biblically. While declaring he has faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, he shows that he doesn’t know HOW the blood is applied.

    “If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15

  • Catholics Are More Progressive Than The Vatican, And Almost Everyone Else

    02/19/2015 7:32:35 AM PST · 38 of 47
    Zuriel to CWW

    **Let’s ask the same set of questions to Catholics who attend Mass every week and you will see a radically different result.**

    Really? I know many devoted RCs that voted for 0bummer, and any other Dim, because they are libs. They apparently feel that the mass cleans up anything they do wrong on a weekly basis. So they keep on doing the same old sins.

    I even know a woman that attends mass daily, and has as long I’ve known her. She’s proud of her church, and is involved in it in many ways. I remember hearing of her taking time off of work to drive 40 miles to stand on an overpass and wave at the motorcade hauling then prez candidate Bill Clintoon. When I saw her at work the next day, she was so excited to say she saw him. I asked her, “Doesn’t he support abortion?” She didn’t even reply. She just stared at me for a moment, with an angry glare, and turned away.

    The RCC has done an effective job of convincing people that as long as they are members, and partake of the mass, they are good to go (nomatter how ungodly their hearts are).

  • Salvation is Too Simple, not Too Hard...Romans 9-11 pt 7

    02/17/2015 7:39:51 AM PST · 58 of 59
    Zuriel to pastorbillrandles

    We’re doctrinally like the UPC and ALJC, just independent. I have friends in both.

    The Oneness teaching of ‘one God in three manifestations’ is usually the EXTREMELY brief definition we use to explain the Godhead, it is really not adequate, seeing that Jesus Christ is found teaching the Godhead a great deal in John. His most condensed words on the subject are probably John 4:24 (”God is a Spirit”), which he expounds on to his disciples in much greater detail in Jn 14.

    While Oneness teach ‘one God’, and not a ‘three separate and distinct, co-equal, co-powerful, persons of God’, we define God this way: God the Father made his invisible attributes visible (made flesh), by begetting his Son. The Father is the source of the Holy Ghost, as the Son himself testifies. So we use the scriptural definintions when defining God, such as ‘God the Father’, the ‘Son OF God’, and the ‘Spirit OF God’ or the ‘Holy Ghost’. We don’t use the phrases ‘God the Son’ or ‘God the Holy Ghost’.

    In John 14, Jesus Christ really lays it out: God the Father is IN the Son, and Son is IN the Father (since the Father is an omnipresent Spirit, that’s inescapable). And it is the Father that powers it all. The Son has his own soul, (”thou wilt not leave my soul in hell..”), but has been given absolute control of the power of God. Which is how he is able to call forth the Holy Ghost from God the Father.

    John 1:1-14 are used to promote a least two separate and distinct ‘persons of God’, yet, when one compares those verses with the teaching that the Lord gives throughout John, especially chapter 14, one can see that the Son is literally in the Father, and that the Father is literally in the Son. Inseparable.

    It is a subject of infinite discussion. And I’ve got to roll. Thanks for asking.

    God bless

  • Salvation is Too Simple, not Too Hard...Romans 9-11 pt 7

    02/16/2015 6:41:20 PM PST · 55 of 59
    Zuriel to Wolf-Lake

    **Interesting posts.**

    Thanks for your interest!

    They just take me too long to put together, as my wife will attest. lol

  • Salvation is Too Simple, not Too Hard...Romans 9-11 pt 7

    02/16/2015 6:35:01 PM PST · 54 of 59
    Zuriel to jimbobfoster

    **Does it matter whether a person is baptized in the “name of Jesus” or “in The Father, Son and Holy Ghost” ?**

    The scriptures seem to say so. In the detailed accounts of water baptism in Acts, the apostles commanded baptism, or baptized, in the name of Jesus (2:38; 8:16; 19:5).

    Peter commanded that Cornelius and his household be “baptized in the name of the Lord” (10:48). That name would be Jesus “..whom God....hath made both Lord and Christ” (2:36).

    Paul relates his conversion to the Jews, speaking of his baptism by Ananias in Acts 22:16: “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”.

    Paul, who baptized many, but only a few in Corinth, pointed out in a roundabout way, in 1Cor. 1:13 whose name was to be used: “Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?”

    ‘Son’ is not a name, but a title. The Son was given the name of Jesus (Matt. 1:21).

    The Son tells us where he got his name: “I am come in my Father’s name..” (Jn 5:43). And Hebrews 1:4 says of the Son, “..he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name..”.

    The Holy Ghost is sent in the name of Jesus, for the Son said, “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name..” Jn 14:26.

    “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved”. Acts 4:12

    When you put that all together, water baptism in the name of Jesus is certainly the scriptural mode.

    **Who is authorized to perform baptisms**

    Any one who understands what it is for, and the power of the spoken name of Jesus.

    **and where should the be performed?**

    Anywhere that there is enough water to fully immerse someone. Water is water. Jesus was baptized in the Jordan river, where agricultural runoff (although it was probably organic) was already an everyday fact of life.

    New Testament water baptism was done with almost an urgency. The week or so delays are simply not scriptural (that’s kind of a pet peeve of mine).

    Thanks for asking,

    God bless

  • Salvation is Too Simple, not Too Hard...Romans 9-11 pt 7

    02/16/2015 5:21:13 PM PST · 53 of 59
    Zuriel to pastorbillrandles

    I’m sure you realize that some replies are to post ‘one’, only because it is post ‘one’. I don’t think I specifically addressed you personally. So please don’t take it as such. It was more of a general reply to many that tend to overlook the points that I tried to cover.

    I was addressing the issue of main-stream Christianity’s routine of preaching salvation to the lost, by way of Romans. Which is a letter written to souls that are already born again, or at least know how to be. That’s the context, that more often than not, is usually not pointed out to the lost.

    There are generalities about salvation in Romans (”call on the name of the Lord”), that don’t go into the details that the Lord himself set forth for rebirth. Romans doesn’t need to, since it was written to those that already knew. Although, there are reminders, such as those in chapter 6.

    And, as you know, this means of communication is somewhat lacking in it’s ability to display the level of emotion by those posting. Keep in mind that much of the Lord’s teaching in the gospels seems blunt and to the point much of the time (even using tough love). He didn’t waste words.

    Hopefully, with God’s help, I will become more like the Lord at discussing points of scriptural importance.

    God bless

  • Salvation is Too Simple, not Too Hard...Romans 9-11 pt 7

    02/15/2015 8:31:14 PM PST · 48 of 59
    Zuriel to avenir

    **Not long ago I heard a preacher speak on baptism and he noted Paul’s statement in 1 Cor. 1:17...**

    The context of that passage is that Paul did baptize people there. It was just that some converts had gotten ‘preacher religion’ and had been bragging about WHO baptized them, instead of WHO they were baptized into (Jesus Christ).

    In which case Paul was thankful he had only baptized a few in Corinth. But, by Paul’s own words, other ministers had performed baptisms there. Paul showed up in Ephesus and promptly baptized 12 disciples there in the name of Jesus.

    Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”
    (Yes, Paul baptized in water at Corinth, in the name of Jesus.)

    Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.” (Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)

    Jesus Christ said that we must be born of the water, and of the Spirit. The Lord put great emphasis on water baptism TO his apostles. THEY were to do the water baptism in his name for remission of sins (”whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted..”), while HE would baptize with the Spirit.

    There is SO much proof of that (as my previous post shows), that if one shoves aside the traditions of men that overlook those scriptures (either ignorantly, or willingly), then it becomes quite clear.

    Just the fact that the Lord, and his apostles, put such great emphasis on it, should cause one to sit up and take notice.

    **His takeaway: “So, the Gospel is NOT water baptism.”**

    The Gospel (the death, burial, resurrection, and message of salvation in Jesus Christ) INCLUDES water baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. By Paul’s admission, he did baptize, but his was not a John the baptist ministry. For one thing, Paul said that John’s water baptism was a baptism unto repentance (Acts 19:4). The Gospel’s water baptism is in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

    Over 33 yrs ago, when I was first told these things, I promptly asked the messenger, “What about everybody passed on that hasn’t done that?” To which the messenger’s reply was, “That’s not your responsibility. They’re gone, and besides, you don’t know how much they heard”.

    So, if after hearing the Law read, that had been missing for so long, Josiah had chose not to have it read to the people for fear of offending them (”Hey Josiah! My deceased relatives didn’t observe those things you’re now following!”), then what? He would have been guilty of rejecting the will of the Lord.

    Under the new covenant, the simple question is this: Acts 2:38; is it from heaven, or of men?