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United Van Lines, LLC has released its annual migration study on where it takes its clients to and from among the 48 contiguous states. The Mackinac Center for Public Policy has tested their data against actual census data going back to 1977 and found the two to be very highly correlated. This makes UVL data something of a leading migration indicator. According to UVL, a staggering 67.8 percent of its Michigan client traffic was outbound in 2007. That rate is an all-time record high, eclipsing the previous 1981 record of 66.9 percent during a year the Great Lake State suffered...

WASHINGTON, Jan. 4, 2008 – A group in Massachusetts is offering wounded servicemembers tools to help them transition into civilian life. “(We are) giving our wounded heroes a second chance at the opportunity to become marketable for the 21st century work force through education and training,” said Michelle Saunders, director of Veterans Moving Forward. As a part of the Veteran Hospice Homestead, Veterans Moving Forward is engaging community colleges and educational facilities around the country to create solutions to help alleviate the financial burdens of wounded veterans and their families, Saunders said. The Veteran Hospice Homestead provides medical, psychological...

I mentioned over the weekend that there was a revolt in the SF Bay Area brewing against the Code Pinkos who defaced a military recruiting center in Berkeley. Melanie Morgan has set the date and issued a call to arms: We will rally to support our troops and denounce efforts by Code Pink and others to ‘chase’ the military out of Northern California. We make our stand at the Marine Recruiting Center in Berkeley which has just been defaced by anti-war protestors. Code Pink has a rally planned to denounce the miltiary on Wednesday, October 17th. We are calling on...

I want to say when I first saw the post scouting for locations for this event, I thought in my haste, that it was a local Chicago Freeper chapter that was meeting to support our troops. I was heartened for the locale was my suggestion but more importantly after the debacle in Congress and what they do to our wonderful men and women in the military, I was proud to partake in honoring them. I chose Niles,Il. because it befitted what Move Across America had requested and the fact it is a Memorial to our fallen veterans. It is...

LANSING – Governor Jennifer M. Granholm today issued the following statement on Volkswagen’s presence in Michigan: “We are grateful that so many Volkswagen jobs are staying in Michigan. By choosing to continue their automotive and technology related functions here they will be retaining 600 of their employees in Michigan. We look forward to continuing our strong relationship with Volkswagen in the years to come.” Granholm met with Stefan Jacoby, incoming President and CEO of Volkswagen of America last evening. In conversations and a formal letter to the Governor, Jacoby said Michigan is and will remain an important global center for...

LOS ANGELES - Immigration advocates are struggling to frame images of this week's clash between police and protesters in a way that promotes their cause, with some activists considering using the event to attract supporters. Some advocates believe the police action against mostly peaceful demonstrators could add urgency to efforts to create a path to citizenship for the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. But others worry the reform movement could be blamed for the melee and that immigrants will be afraid to participate in future demonstrations. "These kinds of situations, if they are framed properly, can be a powerful...

Adapt, Move or Die: Prehistoric Climate Change by Joe Palca The skeleton of a prehistoric elephant found on a beach in England raises questions about ancient changes in global climate. Scientists estimate that the elephant was 10 tons — twice the size of today's African elephants. Sam Brown, Norfolk Museums and Archaeology Service The prehistoric elephant bones were found protruding from the cliffs at West Runton after a winter storm. Geologists analyze the layers of sediment in the cliffs for clues about the ancient climate. “We're entering a new phase, and it certainly seems to me that this is now...

Move to speed up pay-as-you-drive By David Millward, Transport Correspondent (Filed: 07/08/2006) The country's first pay-as-you-drive road pricing scheme could be in operation within four years after the Transport Secretary urged Cabinet colleagues to find room for a Bill in the next parliamentary session. Douglas Alexander's pitch for a legislative slot is the strongest signal yet that a major overhaul of the way in which motorists are taxed will become a reality. Without the necessary powers, the 2010 deadline for a pilot study set by Alistair Darling, Mr Alexander's predecessor, could slip. The Department for Transport has been looking for...

You know, I do appreciate the purported goals of Move America Forward, but sometimes I have to wonder whether Michael Moore is running the show, just to make a conservative outfit look inept. First and foremost, when your name -- AND your logo -- say MoveAmericaForward dot org, you do NOT have a voiceover that refers to your organization as MoveAmericaForward dot COM. It'd be like George W. Bush all of a sudden referring to himself as George H. W. Bush or something similarly ridiculous. But you know, even as stupid as that is (and as stupid as it implies...

WASHINGTON, July 24, 2006 – As demand for evacuation drops, Defense Department units will deliver more humanitarian assistance to beleaguered Lebanon, a senior defense official said today. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said DoD has evacuated 11,913 American citizens from Lebanon since the operation began July 16. He said officials anticipate evacuating another 1,200 from Lebanon today, but that demand for evacuation seems to have peaked. The operation is not over, Whitman said, "but we are coming close to completing the assisted departure operations. We are going to be shifting our emphasis to a humanitarian effort." He said two ships --...

 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                                                                                         June 19, 2006 Contact: Robert Dixon (916) 441- 6197B L O G S H O C K E R ! Daily Kos Embraces Pro-Troop “Move America Forward” (SAN FRANCISCO) – Liberal blogger Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, founder of the popular left-of-center blog, DailyKos.com, has just returned from his first annual “YearlyKos” convention by embracing a surprising mantra: that of the nation’s largest grassroots pro-troop organization, Move America Forward (website: http://www.MoveAmericaForward.org). In a posting headlined “Move America Forward” the blogger “Kos”...

I'm thinking of the Carolina mountains as my next place to live. Would you consider Asheville, with its art deco feel as the place to live or would you go for Greenville with its more settled ambience? I've lived in California on the coast all my life and I'd like to try something different. Low cost of living, affordable housing, a safe place to live and having that view outside the window without the price tag. I know Colorado is expensive because every one goes there but no one seems to know the Blue Ridge Mountains are just as stunning....

While we were busy collecting more signatures on our "Censure Jimmy Carter" petitions from tens of thousands of Americans, some of the former president's supporters were responding in a rather hateful way. Just as those in the "Blame America First" crowd have profanely denounced our troops, our military, our Commander in Chief and carried signs saying "We Support Our Troops... When They Shoot Their Officers," they now have verbally attacked and made death threats against the staff and family members of the Censure Carter Committee. As I type this message our staff is assembling the emails and voice mails to...

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born Dutch politician known for her outspoken criticism of Islam, plans to leave parliament and move to the United States after admitting she lied to win asylum in the Netherlands. Hirsi Ali, 36, sought asylum in the Netherlands in 1992, claiming to be escaping from an arranged marriage. She gained Dutch citizenship in 1997 and was elected to parliament in 2003. A storm erupted about her asylum application last week after a Dutch television documentary interviewed members of her family about her background. They said she had not been forced into an arranged...

...I was formerly known as Iraqi Fedayeen Major General, Ali Ibrahim Al-Tikriti. I was one of Saddam's chief Generals dealing with his secret nuclear, chemical, and biological programs... After the Gulf War our weapons programs were driven deep underground to avoid international inspections. We composed an idea of using salvaged parts from Tamuz in the early 90's as well as research we still had filed to begin construction of a simulation reactor. One of the most critical components was the gas centrifuges. After numerous attempts to acquire specially designed high strength aluminum tubes for these centrifuges we were finally successfully...

Minneapolis-St. Paul is a "cosmopolitan gem," according to a new ranking by Kiplinger's Personal Finance magazine. Granted, "the winter weather isn't for wusses," Kiplinger's June issue reports, but the seven-county Twin Cities area has so many good things to brag about: cost of living and housing, quality health care, low crime rate, education, quality of life, cultural amenities, the economy and transportation. St. Paul doesn't get short shrift either in the write-up: The Ordway Center for the Performing Arts and St. Paul Chamber Orchestra are mentioned, among other pluses. Minneapolis is described as "progressive and hip, with a Midwestern sensibility."...

DEARBORN HEIGHTS, Mich., April 20 /PRNewswire/ -- An historic FBI Town Hall Meeting with Arab and Muslim Americans will be televised nationwide on May 15th at 8pm ET / 9pm PT on Bridges TV. Bridges TV is available as a free channel on Wow Cable & Internet and GlobeCast Satellite. However, Comcast Cable, the nation's largest cable provider, charges customers an extra $180 a year to watch Bridges TV. "We are deeply saddened by such excessive overpricing by Comcast Cable. There is an urgent need for better coverage of Arab and Muslim American issues in the media. Offering Bridges TV...

AL ASAD, Iraq (Mar 5, 2006) -- Issues Marines face on a daily basis, which can lessen their quality of life and hinder their mission, include downed power generators, lights not turning on, mud bogs created by standing water and gear or personnel needing transportation. The Forerunners can turn to five talented, multi-tasking Marines with the logistics section of Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron 16, Marine Aircraft Group 16, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, to solve these and other miscellaneous problems and tasks as they spring up. "We are responsible for the maintenance of five barracks, six hangars, the base ordnance building...

Tories move to heal White House rift By Alec Russell in Washington and George Jones, Political Editor (Filed: 16/02/2006) The Tories will today seek to end an extraordinary rift with their natural allies in the White House with a staunch statement of support for President George W Bush over the need to stop Iran having a nuclear weapon. At the start of a two-day visit to repair relations, Liam Fox, the Conservative defence spokesman, will tell a Washington think-tank that Britain remains America's "most reliable and effective ally". Dr Fox: coming to America In a speech to the Heritage Foundation,...

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger calls California the land of opportunity. So does Nevada -- but for a different reason. Silver State officials this week launched an advertising campaign in several California cities, their latest attempt to hijack California companies weary of the state's high insurance, utility, and tax costs. Nevada's latest ads -- running in newspapers with links to similarly themed Web sites -- play off the wink-and-a-nod notion that even the bear on California's state flag has skedaddled across the border to Nevada. Oversized outdoor ads will be draped on downtown buildings in Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco, and San...

NEW ORLEANS, Jan. 23, 2006 – New Orleans faced an uphill battle against mountains of debris after storm surge and levee flooding from hurricanes Katrina and Rita brought city services to a halt in 2005. With the city and its municipal solid waste collection contractor unable to resume operations, the garbage, stench and health risk increased with each sultry day. "Our contractors were having problems regrouping their people and equipment," said New Orleans Director of Sanitation Veronica T. White, a specialist in public and environmental health. "The No. 1 urgency here was health." On Sept. 21, New Orleans asked the...

Confusion over Iran 'assets move' Iran has broken the seals on three nuclear facilities There is confusion over whether Iran is moving foreign exchange reserves from Europe to avoid possible sanctions, after conflicting remarks by officials. The deputy head of Iran's central bank has said that Iran has no plans at the moment to shift its money. But Iranian news agencies reported on Friday that the bank head had said the state had started to withdraw assets, amid a row over its nuclear programme. Iran denies US and European claims that it is seeking to build nuclear weapons. The UN's...

WASHINGTON, Jan. 19, 2006 – The past year showed a significant increase in the number of trained and equipped Iraqi security forces and in the capability of these forces to conduct independent operations, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said today. A year ago, there were 127,000 trained and equipped members of the Iraqi security forces. Today there are more than 227,000, which reflects a 78 percent increase, Army Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, Multinational Force Iraq spokesman, said at a news conference. These Iraqi forces are becoming more capable and are taking the lead in operations, Lynch said. One Iraqi...

CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq (Jan. 5, 2006) -- Life changed forever one month ago for two fraternal twin brothers serving in different units in Iraq when one suffered injuries from an improvised explosive device. As one brother heals himself to a full recovery at a medical center back in the states, the other remains determined to carry out his service in Iraq. Lance Corporals Jeremiah and Jeremy Pimental, 20, farm boys from Springfield, Ore., carry on a family tradition of military service going back to World War II. Both men joined the Marine Corps months after their high school graduation in...

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is again spouting Jew-hatred, and displaying his complete ignorance of history (but what's rationality when expousing genocide?). In October, he urged that Israel be "wiped off the map." Today, he: ...expressed doubt that the Holocaust occurred and suggested Israel be moved to Europe. ... In his own words: "Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying. "Although we don't...

U.S., Europe Won't Push for Move on Iran Tuesday November 22, 2005 12:46 AM By GEORGE JAHN Associated Press Writer VIENNA, Austria (AP) - Washington and its European allies will forgo pushing for Iran's referral to the U.N. Security Council later this week, giving Russia more time in persuading Tehran to give up technology that could make nuclear arms, diplomats and officials told The Associated Press on Monday. For the Americans and the European Union, the plan holds the promise of success even if Iran continues to reject the proposal that would move its uranium enrichment program to Russia. The...

WASHINGTON – Rep. Loretta Sanchez says she may run for governor – in 2010. The Democratic political diva of Orange County has created "People for Loretta 2010," a political committee that allows her to raise money for a governor's race. "I think I need to go home and fix my state," the Santa Ana Democrat said in an interview on Friday. "I'm just keeping my options open. People know I love California. I come home every weekend." Despite taking this step, Sanchez isn't saying she's definitely going to run. "It's a ways off. I'm putting a marker down," she said....

CAMP BLUE DIAMOND, Iraq, Nov. 14, 2005 – Iraqi army soldiers and U.S. Marines, soldiers and sailors with Regimental Combat Team 2 began a new phase of Operation Steel Curtain today by entering the town of Ubaydi. Ubaydi, located on the banks of the Euphrates River, is only 20 km from the Syrian border, and was the site of Operation Matador in May. Insurgent fighters have been battling with Iraqi and coalition forces since the operation began at dawn. Coalition air strikes hit five targets while insurgents were engaging coalition forces with small-arms fire. Preliminary reports indicate an estimated 25...

CAMP BLUE DIAMOND, Iraq, Nov. 10, 2005 – Iraqi and U.S. forces began clearing-and-holding operations in the city of Karabilah, about two kilometers east of Husaybah, as Operation Steel Curtain entered its sixth day, officials said here today. The new phase of is intended to set conditions for a permanent security presence within the city. Patrols and targeted raids are also being conducted in Husaybah, where the operation was first launched Nov. 5, to root out any remaining al Qaeda in Iraq-led terrorists. Intelligence indicates some terrorists might have abandoned Husaybah once Iraqi and U.S. forces began clearing that city...

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Nissan Motor Co. said Thursday it is moving its North American headquarters from California to the Nashville area. "The board of Nissan decided to relocate our North American headquarters, and we're coming to Tennessee," Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn said at a news conference at the state Capitol attended by Gov. Phil Bredesen and other top state officials. The headquarters, which has been based in Gardena, Calif., [since the late 1960's] will move to Williamson County, a fast-growing suburb south of Nashville. The nearly 1,300 people employed at Nissan's Los Angeles-area headquarters work in management, marketing, advertising,...

WASHINGTON - House Republicans on Thursday included a break-up of the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in a budget bill that would be immune from Senate filibuster, drawing complaints from Democrats. "It does not have the support to pass both houses of Congress, so House Republicans are seeking to stifle debate and the democratic process by inserting a controversial measure into the expedited budget process," said House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-San Francisco. The House Budget Committee included the measure in a $54 billion deficit-reduction bill that is expected to get a House floor vote next week....

City officials grilled on recovery process Wednesday, October 26, 2005 By Bruce Eggler Staff writer New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin takes a bite of a beignet (pastry) during the re-opening of the 153-year old Cafe Du Monde in the French Quarter of New Orleans, Louisiana, October 19, 2005. Wednesday is the first day of business for the New Orleans landmark since it was closed down due to Hurricane Katrina. REUTERS/Lucas Jackson Members of a state legislative committee pressed New Orleans officials Tuesday for answers to a long list of questions about the status of post-Katrina recovery efforts and plans for...

'Independent Action' tests abilities to plan, schedule and execute missions. By U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Herb PhillipsCoalition Military Assistance and Training Team Air Cell BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 25, 2005 — With the lift-off of two fully-loaded C-130E Hercules aircraft from Ali Base in southern Iraq Oct. 12, the Iraqi Air Force's 23rd Squadron (Transport) began its move to its new home at Al Muthana Air Base at Baghdad International Airport. The move is part of "Independent Action," the first in a series of exercises aimed at developing the C-130 squadron. The intent of this exercise was to deploy...

ANSBACH, Germany -- Soldiers from the 1st Infantry Division’s 4th Brigade held a departure ceremony Sept. 30 at Katterbach Kaserne for 22 Soldiers from the Special Police Training Teams. The SPTTs are a group of officers and noncommissioned officers from 4th Brigade handpicked to deploy to Iraq in order to strengthen the Iraqi Security Forces by organizing, training, equipping and mentoring the Iraqi forces.

SACRAMENTO (AP) - A federal judge on Wednesday set the stage for an atheist and three Sacramento-area school districts to take their dispute over the Pledge of Allegiance to an appeals court. U.S. District Court Judge Lawrence Karlton said he will stay a ruling made last month, meaning the schools can continue having children recite the pledge. In his previous finding, Karlton said he was bound by a 2002 ruling of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools because it contains the words "under God." That lawsuit was...

Richmond wants the U.S. National Slavery Museum to move here. The White House of the Confederacy needs a home. State Sen. Benjamin J. Lambert III says he may have the solution: Put both side by side behind the Science Museum of Virginia. “I met the other day with the people at the Confederate museum,” says Lambert, referring to The Museum of the Confederacy at 1201 E. Clay St. “I had suggested that land up there [behind the Science Museum] so that everyone can be one big happy family. I think it will work.” Lambert says his proposal is just “an...

UNITED NATIONS (AP) - United Nations delegates, welcome to ... Brooklyn? U.N. planners have found commercial space across the East River in Brooklyn that could serve as a temporary home while the United Nations' iconic glass-and-steel headquarters in Manhattan gets a long-overdue renovation, Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in a report Tuesday. The report assessed where things stand with plans to renovate the U.N. secretariat building, which was considered modern when it was constructed 50 years ago but now violates most New York City fire and safety codes. The 38-story tower has no sprinkler system, is packed with asbestos, and loses...

Twenty years ago this Friday, Philadelphia became "The City That Bombed Itself." On the evening of May 13, 1985, in the Cobbs Creek section of West Philadelphia, police dropped explosives onto the headquarters of the radical group MOVE. The explosion started a fire that city officials allowed to burn. When the blaze was out, 61 homes were gone and 11 people, five of them children, were dead inside MOVE headquarters.

My wife and I are looking to move to the South, where should we go? We were born and raised in the streets of NYC, but have come to apprecaite the kind of living the South affords. We love the South's history, culture, and way of life. We're thinking about LA, AL, MS, FL and/or TX. We want to be in a coastal area where we can enjoy the water. We want to live near a city that has good eating, fun, and lots of things to do. We don't want to get caught up in too much backwoods mentality...

LOS ANGELES (AP) - The head of the Los Angeles County health department was ordered to move his office into troubled Martin Luther King Jr./Drew Medical Center by supervisors frustrated by continuing reports of deaths and poor patient care. "Park yourself there," Supervisor Gloria Molina directed Dr. Thomas Garthwaite during a contentious supervisors' meeting Tuesday. "Take your schedule. Tear it up and spend every moment that you're working for us working on solving the crisis," she said. Garthwaite said his department had taken disciplinary actions against hundreds of King/Drew employees. Supervisors also ordered the Department of Health Services to hire...

From the heavyweight Southern California Water Authority to the scrappy little County Council in Moab, Utah, a determined chorus is rising to urge the U.S. Department of Energy to move a 10-million-ton pile of radioactive waste away from the banks of the Colorado River. "This water supply and the health of millions of people are too important to leave to chance," a letter from the San Diego County Water Authority urges the Energy Department. "Moving the pile would lessen these risks significantly." Three of the four largest water agencies in the region have insisted that the waste pile be moved...

Information needed on moving to Memphis area. My husband may be taking a job in Memphis Tennessee late summer/early fall. We would like to hear from Freepers who can tell us the ups/downs of living there. Also, anyone who lives outside Memphis but commutes etc. What TN towns are close enough to drive from on a daily basis? We are looking to buy a house and would appreciate suggestions on where to look. Any info on property taxes, state income tax, and is it cheaper if you work in downtown Memphis to live in Missippi etc.

In removing Jewish residents from their legitimate homes in Gaza, Judea and Samaria (a.k.a. “West Bank”), the Sharon government of Israel is guilty of egregious human rights violations against its own Jewish citizens who are also innocent targets of Arab terrorism. The Bush Administration is guilty of complicity in this human rights crime. The effect of this is to weaken both Israel and America ideologically and morally in their efforts to combat Islamo-fascism and the global terrorism that it spawns. As such this undermines the security interests of the American people. At the core of our strength in the current...

The purpose of FreeRepublic.com's multiple message boards is to limit the topics for each board to particular topics. Posting the same message on all the boards defeats the purpose of multiple-boards for special topics. It is very annoying to see the same message on every bulletin board. PLEASE! DO THE READERS A FAVOR. STOP CROSS-POSTING YOUR MESSAGES!

BAGHDAD, Iraq — The NBC correspondent who filmed the fatal shooting by a Marine of an apparently injured and unarmed Iraqi by a U.S. Marine inside a Fallujah (search) mosque has written on his Web site that the wounded man made no sudden movements before the Marine opened fire on him.Before the opening of the Nov. 8 assault on the rebel-held city, Marine commanders told infantrymen that the rules of engagement allowed for use of deadly force against men of military age deemed holding hostile intent, even if the enemy didn't fire on the Marines first.In a posting on his Web blog...

SACRAMENTO — Watchdog groups Tuesday threatened to place on the ballot a measure to downsize state government if the Legislature does not adopt recommendations from Gov. Schwarze-negger's 2,600-page California Performance Review report. Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Foundation, said the report — a sweeping plan to revamp state government — might fare better with an up-or-down vote at the polls than with legislators. "It would pass in a heartbeat," Coupal said. The comments came as the Jarvis group and the Washington, D.C.-based Citizens Against Government Waste released the 2004 California Piglet Book showcasing billions of dollars of...

First post folks in the number of years I've been on FreeRepublic (Hi to those folks back in WA, I'm in Reno, NV now!!). Now, over the past several weeks many liberals have threatened once again that they would move out of the United States if Bush wins (remember the 2000 election??). Today, the day that a Bush win is official, I see NOTHING from these folks about their impending move. Why isn't the media reporting on this, hmm?? Seems to me that many libs are due to move, and I'd be happy to buy their one-way ticket out of...

Clintonistas move in for the kill — of Kerry The Democratic convention failed to give Sen. John Kerry the bounce that he needed and anticipated because, at the end, after Clinton, Obama, and Edwards had oriented the convention to a domestic agenda, he tacked the wrong way and emphasized foreign policy and war to the exclusion of healthcare and the economy. The Republican convention, by contrast, was carefully aimed at promoting the saliency of President Bush’s anti-terror agenda and emphasizing the dangerous threat under which we all live. Now comes the third convention: the anniversary of the attacks of Sept....

Flooding may be a side effect of Venus' move June 20 2004 at 10:33AM Beijing - The recent spectacular transit of Venus across the face of the sun may lead to disastrous flooding along China's Yellow River, a leading scientist warned in the local media on Sunday. While millions were marvelling at the celestial show earlier this month, Geng Guoqing, an expert on natural calamities, was more worried about the consequences for China's second-longest river, the Xinhua news agency reported. He compared historical records reaching 2 187 years back and found a clear correllation between Venus transits and serious floods...

Controversy Over National Referendum on Capital Move Controversy over the national referendum to determine the relocation of the nation's capital is spreading throughout the Korean political world. The Grand National Party (GNP) insisted that President Roh carry out his pledge in promising a nationwide referendum on the relocation of the country's administrative capital. Roh held a press conference Friday and argued that, “The GNP should fairly discuss [the controversy over the national referendum] in the National Assembly after unifying the GNP’s opinion on whether to abolish the special law on the relocation of a new capital.” The GNP refuted this....