Posted on 03/21/2009 6:26:13 AM PDT by cowboyway
ATLANTA — In a cultural war that has pitted Old South against new, defenders of the Confederate legacy have opened a fresh front in their campaign to polish an image tarnished, they said, by people who do not respect Southern values.
With the 150th anniversary of the War Between the States in 2011, efforts are under way in statehouses, small towns and counties across the South to push for proclamations or legislation promoting Confederate history.
(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...
Nonsense. The confederacy initiated the war when it fired on Sumter.
Because no other region other than the Southern U.S. went to war to defend it.
Plagiarism is plagiarism. As to the content, it is a typical radical libertarian rant that gets the basic facts wrong, ignores other facts and jumbles time-lines of events in order to support an incorrect thesis.
Point one. The South did not secede over tariffs. None of their secession documents mentioned tariffs. Every one of them talked of slavery.
Point 2. If the southern states had remained in congress, they had enough votes to block the Morrell tariff in the Senate. It only passed after the secession of the seven cotton states and was signed by President Buchanan even before Lincoln came to office.
Point 3. The Confederate congress instituted a tariff regime of its own which included protective tariffs.
Point 4. While ranting about Lincoln's draft, it fails to mention that the Confederate government instituted a draft before the Union government did. In fact, a far high percentage of Confederate troops were draftees than on the Union side. The confederate government also unilaterally extended the short term enlistments of its troops, something the Union government never did throughout the course of the war.
Point 5. While ranting about fascism, (it seems the writer does not really know what fascism is) it was the Confederate government that actually seized the property of its own citizens and confiscated all sorts of goods necessary for the war effort. The Union side paid producers and merchants for their goods on the open market.
I repeat myself:
The reason why we can't understand each other's point is exactly why the war was fought. Nothing changes, do you think we are really any different the Sam Watkins, Sherman, Lee or (insert 19th century civil war participant name here). I guess what is truly depressing about you, and your side, is the only real way to solve our differences would be on the battlefield. That thought is not a good one. Words don't seem to work. I guess the one thing that we have accomplished is to prove that. Depressing.
Stay on your high horse, when the Feds knock you down don't come crying to me.
Do you have a source?
What the hell, I'll play along. You say it was about UNCONTROLLED FEDERAL POWER? What form did this manifest itself in? How was the federal government running amuck? What had Lincoln done, other than get elected, that oppressed the South?
I actually like Lincoln, there was nobody to dismantle the Federal Machine after the war, that is the problem.
Both sides were/are right, I think any state can leave union/republic whenever they choose and the Federal Government has a right to crush what they see as a rebellion. I view this country as a Free Republic, you view it as a Constitutional Empire. Both views have merit. I would like to discuss this, with or without the context of the civil war. But as soon as the bloody shirt of slavery is waved, all logical discussion goes out the window.
There is another way to keep the Federal Govt. in check. The states, when view as separate voluntary entities, mini-counties, is a de facto threat. The right of secession is the “ammo”. Isn’t implied then, that the states have a right to their ammo?
Yeah, that’s all very interesting but you said that the reason for the Southern rebellion was not the defense of slavery but was instead uncontrolled federal powers. I’m interested in your explanation on how that uncontrolled federal power was manifested. I already know about the second amendment.
Forget all historical settings/context, if you wish to discuss this with me base all arguments on either justifing a Federal Empire or a true Free Republic, were entities (states) can leave at will. Pick a side and have at it.
Get off it.
You know the history and you know that the north and the South always had, and continue to have, disagreements about government and almost every other subject.
BTW, since you're a staunch northerner, I'm assuming that you are carrying the socialist banner for your northern puppet masters and if not, why not? I mean, you do believe that the north is always right, right?
Oh there's no doubt that they died nobly on the battlefield. But in the end, to have died for nothing.
And that's part of what the Confederate Memorial holiday is all about.
It ain't when you die. Hell, we all die. It's how you die and as long as there's one Southerner observing the remembrance of those Confederate soldiers that fought to defend their country then they will have not have died in vain.
It will only be in vain if you damnyankees are successful in completely revising the history with your northern myths and lies and poisoning a complete generation of American, and especially Southern American, children through your yankee propaganda camps, aka public schools.
I am asking you to defend the statement you made in reply 739, that the rebellion was not motivated by slavery but by uncontrolled federal power. All I would like to know is what uncontrolled federal power you are talking about.
But they never rebelled over it. Not until Lincoln was elected in 1860. If the reason wasn't his opposition to the spread of slavery then what was it?
BTW, since you're a staunch northerner, I'm assuming that you are carrying the socialist banner for your northern puppet masters and if not, why not? I mean, you do believe that the north is always right, right?
That question makes no sense at all, in fact it's absolutely moronic. That would be like me saying, "Since you're such a staunch Southerner then you no doubt fully supported Bill Clinton and his policies. Why not? He's a Southerner just like you, isn't he?"
It ain't when you die. Hell, we all die. It's how you die and as long as there's one Southerner observing the remembrance of those Confederate soldiers that fought to defend their country then they will have not have died in vain.
They will not have died unremembered. Considering their cause and it's fate, they did die in vain.
It will only be in vain if you damnyankees are successful in completely revising the history with your northern myths and lies and poisoning a complete generation of American, and especially Southern American, children through your yankee propaganda camps, aka public schools.
And as long as there are Southron fanatics like you, the Lost Cause, with all its fairy tales and fantasies, will live on.
Or current events, either.
I have a neighbor that recently moved down here from northeast yankee land. He's a typical yankee. For instance, he bought a gun recently and now he's an expert.
Anyway, he stopped by other day and we started talking politics. We talked about Obonga rescinding the Bush abortion and embryonic stem cell research positions.
He stated that he was okay with abortion. I told him that abortion had gotten to a sickening point when it's perfectly legal to induce labor during the third trimester, let a fully viable babies head crown then crush it and call that 'aborting a fetus'. This guy didn't believe me. He had never heard of 'late term abortion' and didn't know that Obonga supported letting babies die if they miraculously survive and abortion. He thought I was making all that crap up.
He was okay with embryonic stem cell research because he thought an 'embryo' was that little chord that they cut off and throw away, anyways.
I'm serious. Can't make that kinda stuff up.
Most of my Confederate ancestors owned no slaves either and did their own work in the fields.
One of them in North Georgia was supposedly a Unionist (the only one of my ancestors who had those feelings), but at some later point he joined the Confederate army. Maybe the atrocities committed by the Union army got to him. Or maybe he was conscripted. We have a picture of him in later years wearing his Southern Cross of Honor given by the UDC to all Southern veterans.
Forget all historical settings/context, if you wish to discuss this with me base all arguments on either justifing a Federal Empire or a true Free Republic, were entities (states) can leave at will. Pick a side and have at it.
It is possible to answer this not in the context of history, and in doing so, does not violate my own rules.
If a state, one of many, is the member of a federal republic, decides to leave said republic and the federal republic doesn't accept that states leaving or acknowledge their sovereignty then that is an example of uncontrolled federalism. Plain and simple.
Attempt number 4. You said in reply 739 that the rebellion wasn't about slavery but that it was really about uncontrolled Federal power. Either explain what uncontrolled Federal power caused the South to rebel or retract your statement.
Seems like a reasonable question to me. Good luck trying to get that confederate turtle to stick his head out again (lol).
So will you at least admit that they wanted to leave in the first place to defend their institution of slavery against what they saw as the threat to it posed by the Lincoln election? Or are you saying that they decided to rebel just for the hell of it?
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