Posted on 03/20/2022 6:10:45 AM PDT by Travis McGee
Careful, you’re gonna upset all the warmongering Rambos and Rambettes by telling the truth.
Like our southern border with Mexico?
Great article from the Atlantic. Thanks.
Yeah right
“So which is a better solution? A national divorce, or risking World War 3, with nukes?”
So there are only two possible “solutions,” then? Either a national divorce or WW III? I don’t buy it. It’s very simple. Ukraine and Russia sit down and work out which parts of Lenin’s grant in 1922 are rightfully Russia’s and which are Ukraine’s. And to do that, Russia has to lose—Not WW III, but their wholesale, barbaric, illegal invasion of Ukraine. If this means a national divorce of Russia from Putin, that’s a good thing. But they have to be beaten back from Ukraine and humiliated. That is the only way to AVOID WW III, because despite the wishful thinking of this article, Ukraine is only the first stepping stone. Putin wants his empire back, and has said so.
“WAR PLANS Russian state TV discusses invasion plan for seizing Baltic states as Nato sends thousands of troops to eastern Europe”
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4047957/posts
Whoever is in charge of Russia at the end of that can negotiate with VZ or whoever replaces him if he does not survive.
If Russia overruns Ukraine, there will be no “national divorce” of Eastern and Western Ukraine. Russia will just take whatever it wants, as it did in the Baltic and Balkan states, in Poland, the eastern part of which Russia still occupies, in Finland, the eastern part of which Russia still occupies, and Germany. In the case of Ukraine, it will take all of it and then go on to seize Moldavia, then Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc. Believe that Russia is only alarmed at the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, and I’ve got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
And this is why Russia must lose. To avoid WW III entirely, because several of the former Soviet Republics that Putin wants back in his federation are already IN NATO, and have been for years. And if he attacks any of them at all, that’s WW III right there, per Article V of the NATO charter. So send military equipment to Ukraine, including planes, for the sake of peace. If, at the end of it all, a settlement is reached by Ukraine with a chastened Russia, and they happen to keep Crimea and other parts of Eastern Ukraine, that’s none of our business. Without chastening Russia, there will be no settlement. For good reason, Russia is compared to a bear.
Whatever happens with energy after that is also a side issue. Ultimately, the real solution to all the problems of energy lies in outer space, which has unlimited solar energy just waiting to be collected and safely transmitted. In the interim, we have fossil fuels, nuclear power, fracking, hydro, solar and wind.
The real problem with fossil fuels is not that they may or may not cause global warming. It’s that big countries like Russia beat up on smaller countries like Ukraine, or even abuse smaller parts of themselves, like Iran to the Ahwazi Arabs of Khuzestan Province, or individuals in America to the Osage Indians, to get the oil and gas and keep it for themselves. That’s what’s behind the carnage and misery of Darfur in the Sudan, too.
Better to set up solar panels on the moon and transmit it in a manner that Anton Tesla might understand, but all I know is it can be done wirelessly according to his theory, or so I’ve heard. I have a nuclear physicist friend who knows all about this kind of thing, but when I asked for an explanation of Tesla’s theory, he stayed mum.
Oh, Good Je$us.
You are going back into thousand year old hazy “maybe” history to show that this or that first Polynesian group got to Hawaii first....MORE THAN A THOUSAND YEARS AGO.
By your logic, all the modern humans with Cro-Magnon DNA must surrender everything to the humans with a little Neandertal DNA. Because of Cro-Magnon oppression....
Good C#rist. “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin” is hard science compared to that.
Dude:
Russia bought Crimea from the Ottoman Empire, for gold, signed treaty. This was in in 1783, the modern era, written history, etc. (Before the USA had a Constitution.)
America bought Alaska from Russia, for gold. This was 1867, the modern era, written history, etc. Signed treaty.
America stole Hawaii, at U.S. Marine gunpoint, in 1893. No contract, no gold no signed treaty. At gunpoint, because, “Muh Manifest Destiny.” IOW, “We need it, we want it, we take it, so f#ck you Hawaiians.”
Before you talk about the most recent iteration of Ukraine’s ever shifting borders, (independent nation since 1991), or who paddled to Hawaii first, over a thousand years ago, you must first declare that you are standing behind America giving Hawaii back to the Hawaiians. Without delay, excuse, or obfuscation. Just give back what America stole at gunpoint.
If you do not support this, you are just a lying POS stupid hypocrite about “Muh Ukraine.”
“which parts of Lenin’s grant in 1922 are rightfully Russia’s and which are Ukraine’s.”
OMG, Oh Je$us C#rist. You are as nutty as Mt Athos. See my answer to him above. Stop counting the possible # of angels on the head of a pin.
Ukraine’s borders, for the 58th or 73rd time, (depending on who is counting), are being resettled the old fashioned way. Deal with reality.
Ukraine needs a national divorce.
And since you are such a stickler for fathoming Vladimir Ilyich Lenin’s map diktats, I’m POSITIVE you will support giving Hawaii back to the Hawaiians immediately. Hawaii, we stole unashamedly, at the point of USMC gun barrels, in 1893.
I’m sure you will get behind correcting that historical wrong, while we are going back in history to rewrite borders (that have been overrun and changed a thousand times.)
bookmark Ukraine map & history
The entire F&F report was spun like - "oh, this is AWFUL!" Not a moment was taken to QUESTION the possibility that the WH itself was doing the spamming alleged by "Russians."
Does anyone in American media exercise any critical thinking and questioning abilities today???
Search “Russian Military Cathedral” and watch the 2 minute video.
Imagine the U.S. military building a “military cathedral” in 2022. It would be dedicated to LGBTQ Trans Marxism, including St. Fauci, St. Obama, St. Alinsky and St. Sanger.
The West hates Russia today because it stands against our current cultural degradation. Example: the same week that Poland took in 100,000 plus refugees, they were condemned by the EU for not supporting LGBTQ+ trans perverts.
This is why Solzhenitsyn ended up supporting Putin.
RUSSIAN MILITARY CATHEDRAL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KOCkjEjFhw
No, we are going full Soviet, while Russia goes the other way. See “Russian Military Cathedral” above.
“And since you are such a stickler for fathoming Vladimir Ilyich Lenin’s map diktats, I’m POSITIVE you will support giving Hawaii back to the Hawaiians immediately. Hawaii, we stole unashamedly, at the point of USMC gun barrels, in 1893.”
That’s funny. I never said a thing about Lenin’s map diktats, other than that Russia and Ukraine, when the dust settles and Russia is defeated, should sit down and sort it out.
On the contrary, you are describing your own attitude. Hawaii is a modern state in the 21st Century, and it really doesn’t matter bugger all what happened in 1893. So, too, Ukraine is an ethnic, religious and linguistic region, known for its fertile farm land. It exists now, not in 1991 or 1654, whatever the maps say or don’t say (Nor does it exist in the 1930s, when the Soviet Union systematically starved a few million Ukrainians to death). How Ukraine and Russia works it out is up to them. But first the invasion must be defeated in order to avoid WW III.
Now kindly go back, and stop responding to your pre-constructed straw man arguments, and simply read what I wrote, which is totally un-related to your blathering non-response.
Your entire article is dishonest and bogus, for the reasons stated in my prior post.
“Hawaii is a modern state in the 21st Century, and it really doesn’t matter bugger all what happened in 1893.”
Great. So any territory that any great power steals and conquers at gunpoint is okie dokie with you, a century on.
We Putined Hawaii in 1893, and you are totally happy about it.
Then you must be a great Putin fan in 2022.
This is the sort of thing that used to appear on FR back in the day, that made it so powerful.
“We Putined Hawaii in 1893,”
No we didn’t. Neither of us were even born in 1893.
“and you are totally happy about it.”
I am totally aware of Jomo Kenyatta’s ranch house speech. “...We cannot afford to look backwards, my friends.” Simple truth, simply stated, the full speech available on You Tube.
Putin is the reactionary, trying to reestablish the old boundaries of the Soviet Union. The former Republics, including Ukraine, have moved on. So, too, I believe, have the majority of the Russian people. Ukrainians foolishly believe that the EU and NATO are some wonderful, progressive organizations, instead of a haven for small-minded bureaucrats and grasping control freaks who can’t make mud out of sand. It’s no threat to Russia, really, though I can understand Putin’s apprehensions. But since VZ has already stated that he’s no longer interested in NATO membership, that should settle that. Once he withdraws his troops, writes condolence letters to all the bereaved parents whose sons died for him in Ukraine, and is tried and punished for his war crimes, Russia and Ukraine can finally sit down and negotiate like adults over the fate of Crimea, etc.
VZ has said that he’s been trying to negotiate with Putin for two years. I believe him. Bears don’t negotiate until they’ve been bested, though. Once they’ve mauled one unicorn, they move on to the next, unless they’re stopped.
So, we did not steal Hawaii from the Hawaiians in 1893 at the point of US Marine Corps gun barrels?
I’m confused.
Now you don’t like conquering countries at gunpoint. Then, you did.
We absolutely Putined Hawaii.
We rolled in with the Marines, pointed guns at the Hawaiins, and said, “We own your country now. Or, we’ll shoot you. Your choice.”
And you seem fine with this, but not when Putin does it.
I guess it was because in grade school, you smiled when you learned about “Manifest Destiny.”
Meaning, “It’s okay when Americas conquers places, because we are very nice people who mean only the best. Not like those mean ugly Russians.”
Don’t you see, that you must choose one way or the other?
Thanks,
>But they (Russia) have to be beaten back from Ukraine and humiliated.
What you propose seems uninformed by the fact of residual Cold War armaments in Russia. Lots of them.
Go study the Cold War for a week or two, focusing on MAD.
“So, we did not steal Hawaii from the Hawaiians in 1893 at the point of US Marine Corps gun barrels?”
The US marines who did the deed are all dead. The individuals who had it done to them are all dead. Honolulu is a modern city, and the life of the native Hawaiians living there has nothing whatever to do with the lives of the Hawaiians of 1893. Moreover, neither you nor I were born in 1893, and our grandparents were nowhere near Hawaii. Mine were living in Eastern Europe and some of them were newborn infants.
And yes, the theft of Hawaii was a dastardly deed. It is important only as a point of reference, and a caution against overly aggressive imperialism. In point of fact, however, it’s in the past.
“I’m confused.”
Why, yes. You are. I noticed. Here’s the difference. Putin’s prolonged rape of Ukraine, started in 2014 after his stooge was unseated during the Maidan revolution, is going on right now. People are really being killed. Innocent people. The Ukraine presidency has changed hands, and now VZ is the President. But Putin is the same criminal now that he was when he waged war against Chechnya and Georgia, and started his war against Ukraine.
Forget all about your maps and shmaps, and get your head around one fact: The rape of Ukraine is ongoing.
Now that that’s established, there is the concern about it turning into WW III. If NATO or the US gets involved, that will happen. But VZ giving up all claims to eastern Ukraine will not stop it, because once Yogi Putin has robbed the Ukrainian picnic basket and murdered the tourists, he will go on to the next, which is Moldavia, since it’s not in NATO and is a former Republic. Just like Hitler, he will go as far as he can before triggering all-out war, when he invades Lithuania, Estonia, or Latvia, which ARE in NATO. And what will embolden him to go that far, the fact that NATO is chicken sh!t and won’t adequately supply Ukraine through third parties. Those MIGs, or rather their absence in Ukraine, is what will cause WW III.
Proxy wars have rules. You don’t want the great powers butting heads, because that will lead to nuclear war. Instead, you have a small war involving two lesser countries or two halves of one country, such as Vietnam. When a great power tries to move in and fight directly with a smaller country, it gets seriously ugly. Because the small country can’t just have a set-piece battle with the big country, and so they wage guerilla warfare, and the other big country supplies the little country with what it needs. The result is, the great power that stepped into a proxy war gets screwed, blued and tattooed.
But if Russia is going balls to the wall in Ukraine with all it’s got, Ranger Smith either supplies Ukraine with what it needs to fight a guerilla war and humiliate Yogi Putin, or Yogi Putin finishes off Ukraine, burps, and moves on to the next picnic basket, until it grabs a NATO picnic basket and WW III commences.
As for the final disposition of Ukraine, that will have to wait until the war is over and Russia has lost. “You can’t negotiate with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.” Did Joy Behar say that? At any rate, negotiating with a bear can be done, after you whip it and tame it, which is Ukraine’s job, to be accomplished with the toys that the West provides it.
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