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146th Anniversary of the Battle of The Little Bighorn (History Nerd Thread)
Self ^ | 6/25/22 | Roman War Criminal

Posted on 06/25/2022 1:07:51 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal

For generations, the mystery of what transpired at the Little Bighorn River on Sunday June 25th, 1876 has left both historians and amateur analysts miffed as to how a heavily decorated Civil War General who had the most astounding success (or luck) could have suffered to complete annihilating defeat at the hands of a stone-aged culture and 'uncivilized' force of 19th century barbarians.

Writers, authors, Military Veterans, even contemporary soldiers of the Boy General himself have not been able to completely grasp the outcome totally. This has been going on for generations. Lawrence Frost, E. Lisle Reedstrom, Cyrus Brady, President Theodore Roosevelt, Evan S. Connell, Robert Utley, and even Elizabeth Custer did their best to piece together the mystery of that infamous battle.

If you are looking for a good book on the battle - the best one I've ever read was written by Cyrus Brady written in 1904 and has multiple very controversial accounts of the battle from participants. It's a must have for any collector and LBH enthusiast.

https://www.amazon.com/Indian-Fights-Fighters-Bison-Book/dp/0803257430

Today, in memory of both sides of this highly contentious battle - I want to try to put together a concise timeline based on dozens of accounts - the source is here:

https://lbha.org/?p=45

And it's by far the most concise timeline I've ever seen in my years of reading/researching the battle.

What happened? Why didn't he retreat back towards Reno Hill after Yates' failed charge of the village? Was he cut-off before that point? Did he really think his ~ 600 troops could subdue a village as large as it was rumored to be? Why did he refuse the 4 companies of the 2nd Cavalry under Brisbin?

Brisbin called him an "Insufferable A$$" (Direct description by Major James Brisbin, 2nd Cavalry)

TIMELINE:

00:30am - 7th Cavalry breaks camp near Busby on a forced night march

02:50am - Lt. Varnum and his scouts arrive at the Crow's Nest Lookout

03:15am - Main column arrives at halt #1 on Davis Creek

03:40am - Two Crow scouts see Sioux Village for first time

04:00am - Varnum and scouts study the village in the valley of the Little Bighorn

05:00am - Varnum observes breakfast smoke at the halt #1 camp

05:20am - Varnum sends note to Custer who is still at halt #1

05:40am - Crow scouts observe two Sioux west of the Divide

06:20am - Varnum leads a sortie against the two Sioux

06:40am - Varnum loses sight of the two Sioux and returns to Crows Nest

07:10am - Crow scouts observe the two Sioux crossing the divide again

07:30am - Custer receives Varnum's note indicating the village has been spotted

08:00am - Custer and his personal scouts head toward the Crows Nest

08:45am - Command under Major Reno depart halt #1 camp and move toward the Crows Nest

09:00am - Custer's party arrives at the Crow's Nest and studies the valley

10:07am - Custer and scouts watched the command arrive at halt #2 camp on Davis creek for concealment

10:20am - Sgt. Curtis reports that he saw Cheyennes rummaging through the lost pack back near halt #1

10:30am - Custer and scouts are met by Capt. Tom Custer with this news

10:35am - Cheyennes spy on the 7th column at halt #2

10:50am - Officers call, Custer decides to attack.

11:45am - Command under Custer departs halt #2 camp down Davis Creek. The column is concealed by the nearby ravine about 1/4 mile east of the divide.

12:00pm - Command at halt #3; Custer assigns battalions.

12:12pm - Custer/Reno battalions left the divide half to descend to Reno creek. Benteen's battalion left the divide halt on an off-trail scout to the left.

12:32pm - Packtrain leaves divide on Custer's trail

13:20pm - Benteen's battalion arrives at upper No-Name Creek and turns down it. On the high ridge, Lt. Gibson observes the Little Bighorn valley empty. **He may not have been even looking at the LBH valley**

14:00pm - Custer-Reno battalions pass No-Name Creek. Scouts report Sioux in the LBH valley. Area is near the Lone Tepee.

14:15pm - Custer orders Reno to lead out at a trot past the Lone Tepee. Custer's battalion goes down the right side of Reno Creek.

14:17pm - Boston Custer trots ahead of the packtrain several miles back to catch up with Custer (He is the last poor soul to join the ill-fated battalion).

14:32pm - Benteen's battalion arrives at Reno Creek. They can see the packtrain 3/4 mile above. Boston Custer joins them.

14:37pm - Benteen's battalion reaches a location known as the morass to water his horses. Boston Custer trots on towards Custer.

14:43pm - Custer's battalion trots to the right of Reno. Scouts report Sioux alarming the village. Reno is ordered to charge by Lt. Cooke.

14:45pm - Boston Custer passes lone tepee

14:47pm - Reno's battalion crosses the left bank of Reno creek

14:51pm - Custer's battalion halts to water at North Fork

14:53pm - Reno's battalion crossed the to the left bank of the LBH river at ford A and waters horses then reforms. Sioux are observed far off ahead moving to attack.

14:55pm - Cooke leaves Reno to report to Custer

14:57pm - Benteen's battalion departs the morass as the packtrain arrives. Packtrain halts to water and close up.

15:01pm - Cook reports the Sioux are attacking Reno. Custer's battalion starts down right bank of the LBH river leaving Reno Creek

15:03pm - Reno's battalion starts charge down the left bank of the LBH River.

15:05pm - Reno's battalion observes Custer & scouts on the right bank bluff of the river

15:10pm - Pony captors leave Reno charge and go ahead of the column to capture Sioux herd.

15:12pm - Benteen's column walk past lone tepee

15:15pm - Sgt. Daniel Kanipe leaves for Capt. Benteen and the packtrain

15:17pm - Packtrain leaves the morass

15:18pm - Reno's battalion halts and forms skirmish line. Custer's battalion observed on the bluffs to the right and they disappear. Custer's column enters Cedar Coulee.

15:23pm - Custer's battalion arrives near bend of Cedar Coulee and halts

15:24pm - Custer and officers including Boyer leave to Weir Point

15:28pm - Custer's party arrives at Weir Point and see the village and Reno skirmishing

15:30pm - DeRudio supposedly sees Custer from the valley on Weir Point at this time

15:32pm - Packtrain passes Lone Tepee

15:33pm - Boston Custer passes Reno Hill. The Reno fight would have been visible for the next 5 minutes to him.

15:34pm - Trumpeter John Martin leaves Custer's battalion with the final message. Custer moves down towards Cedar Coulee

15:38pm - Martin meets Boston Custer at the head of Cedar Coulee

15:40pm - Martin observes Reno's battalion fighting in the timber.

15:41pm - Sgt. Kanipe meets Benteen's battalion with a verbal message from Custer

15:48pm - Packtrain meets Kanipe who had Custer's message

15:49pm - Boston Custer overtakes Custer's battalion at the mouth of Cedar Coulee with news that Reno has is retreating upstream and up the hills

15:56pm - Custer battalion starts down Medicine Tail Coulee

15:58pm - Benteen's battalion meets Trumpeter John Martin where they can hear firing.

16:00pm - Reno's battalion still in retreat across the LBH. Several scouts killed by this time.

16:04pm - Custer's battalion halted in Medicine Tail Coulee where Bouyer joins them

16:05pm - Herendeen's party is cut-off from Reno and hides in the timber along the LBH

16:06pm - Benteen observes Reno's men retreating for the first time

16:08pm - Yates' battalion (Companies F & E) separate down the Medicine Tail Coulee. Custer's battalion (Companies C, I, and L) move north out of the Coulee.

16:10pm - Reno's obliterated battalion assume Reno Hill and prepare defenses

16:15pm - Custer's battalion (C, I, L) arrive on Luce Ridge and halt in a defensive position

16:18pm - Yates' battalion (F & E) arrive at Ford B, light firing heard. Custer's battalion can see and hear the firing

16:20pm - Benteen reaches Reno Hill.

16:23pm - Yates' battalion arrives on the cutbank unopposed at Deep Coulee

16:27pm - Packtrain observes smoke several miles away. Custer's battalion leaves Luce Ridge and meets Yates downstream

16:30pm - Firing is first heard by Benteen & Reno's troops from Custer's troops

16:33pm - Yates' battalion is attacked on its flanks

16:38pm - Custer's battalion fired at Sioux on their left flank as they attempt to cross at Upper Deep Coulee

16:46pm - Yates' battalion on foot to reunion point. Custer joins Yates.

16:47pm - Reno returns from searching for Hodgson back on Reno Hill

16:52pm - Reno dispatches Lt. Hare to speed up ammunition mules

16:55pm - Cracking sounds of Custer's volleys prompts Capt. Weir to ask to move downstream.

17:05pm - Weir and D company depart Reno Hill in search of Custer. Heavy firing from Custer's battalion is notably diminished

17:10pm - Custer's last heavy firing heard from Reno Hill

17:22pm - Benteen departs Reno Hill with Companies H, K, and M to join Weir

17:25pm - Weir arrives at Weir Point and notes that Custer fight is over with just scattered firing three miles away

View from Weir Point:

17:47pm - Reno orders retreat with Sioux massing for an attack on Weir Point - they go back to Reno Hill. 1 loss in the retreat.




TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 7thcavalry; custer; littlebighorn; siouxwar1876
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1 posted on 06/25/2022 1:07:51 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

93 years later we were on the Moon.


2 posted on 06/25/2022 1:12:26 PM PDT by SkyDancer ( I make airplanes fly, what's your super power?)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Very detailed timeline you have there. Given that Custer’s entire army was wiped out, who kept it?


3 posted on 06/25/2022 1:14:26 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (The politicized state destroys aspects of civil society, human kindness and private charity.)
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To: SkyDancer

Indeed, this battle is very much ‘recent history’.
Captain Yates’ wife who survived him for 38 years, was run over by a subway in 1914 in NYC.

One dies in an Indian battle, the other in a more “modern way”.


4 posted on 06/25/2022 1:18:16 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: Vigilanteman

It helps to know a bit about the battle. Custer’s force was divided prior to the battle and the portion that he wasn’t with survived. With the time line covering nearly 18 hours, there was ample time for the divided forces to communicate. As Custer was more cut off, details are sparser. The account ends with tearing gunshots diminishing and cease from 3 miles distance.


5 posted on 06/25/2022 1:21:41 PM PDT by Hieronymus
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To: Vigilanteman
who kept it?

Chief Knowte Pad.

6 posted on 06/25/2022 1:23:41 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Where is Biden leading us and what's with the hand basket?)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Custer was massively out gunned.
Custer got cocky.
Custer died.


7 posted on 06/25/2022 1:26:01 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
A young Lt. Myles Keogh on General John Buford's staff in 1863. Keogh is probably the most decorated officer who participated in the battle. (1st on the left)
8 posted on 06/25/2022 1:27:24 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: BipolarBob

9 posted on 06/25/2022 1:27:59 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Where is Biden leading us and what's with the hand basket?)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
And his horse named Comanche was the only survivor of Custer's battalion:
10 posted on 06/25/2022 1:29:19 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: SkyDancer

50 years after that, we were putting men in girl’s restrooms.


11 posted on 06/25/2022 1:34:58 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (America Owes Anita Bryant An Enormous Apology)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Custer’s arrogance finally caught up with him


12 posted on 06/25/2022 1:35:38 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

I wrote an high school term paper on Custer’s last stand.

Often wondered of Nathan Bedford Forrest would have made the same mistakes.


13 posted on 06/25/2022 1:37:18 PM PDT by RedMonqey
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Bttt.

5.56mm


14 posted on 06/25/2022 1:39:02 PM PDT by M Kehoe (Quid Pro Joe and the Ho got to go.)
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To: RedMonqey

Forrest thought the shotgun was the best weapon for a cavalryman. Most historians like to compare Stuart to Custer due to the flamboyance factor both had and bizarre fashion statements they made.

I personally believe Judson Kilpatrick made much more of an impression on him than most realize. Neither one could care a less about the casualties they incurred.


15 posted on 06/25/2022 1:40:05 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Another survivor other than Comanche? Remember Frank Finkel.
http://www.onwisconsinoutdoors.com/InlandFishing/custersLastStand


16 posted on 06/25/2022 1:42:29 PM PDT by DonBeto (US Notes)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

17 posted on 06/25/2022 1:42:32 PM PDT by Bobalu (I bet the "K" is silent in monkeypox....)
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To: Vigilanteman

Custer divided his forces. People who like to chortle over American soldiers being wiped out usually fail to mention that elements of Custer’s command took up defensive positions and held out against Indian attacks for long enough for relief to arrive. They were generally aware of where Custer’s column was, and were able to piece together, less and less so as they were pressed on themselves by Indians, what was happening.


18 posted on 06/25/2022 1:43:55 PM PDT by TheDandyMan
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Anyone know if they are keeping the battlefield cut or is it over grown with prairie grass?

Would you like visit the site, one day.


19 posted on 06/25/2022 1:43:57 PM PDT by 2001convSVT (Asking questions is your right.)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Forrest seems to get the most of what he had available. He was audious when he had to be and cautious when necessary.

Didn’t know his view on shotguns.


20 posted on 06/25/2022 1:44:58 PM PDT by RedMonqey
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