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Fed Economists – “We see a 15 year Bear Market for Stocks”
My Take on Financial Events ^ | 08/23/2011 | Bruce Krasting

Posted on 08/23/2011 11:34:13 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The San Francisco Fed has come out with a research paper connecting the dots between the retiring baby boomers and stock prices. The thinking is that the boomers will divest themselves of stocks as they retire and eat into their savings. This is an old argument, but I still found it interesting.

The authors, Zheng Liu and Mark M. Spiegel have attempted to quantify the implications. Their principal conclusions:

We find that the actual P/E ratio should decline from about 15 in 2010 to about 8.3 in 2025.

The model-generated path for real stock prices implied by demographic trends is quite bearish. Real stock prices follow a downward trend until 2021.

On the brighter side, as the M/O ratio rebounds in 2025 (BK: M/O = Baby Boomers die), we should expect a strong stock price recovery. By 2030, our calculations suggest that the real value of equities will be about 20% higher than in 2010.

These conclusions are just horrendous! The suggestion is that there is a 15-year bear market in front of us. Multiples will fall by 50%!! I loved the “good news” from the report, that stocks might be 20% higher than 2010, but we have to wait 20 years to see that improvement.

Bloomberg interviewed Spiegel about this report. There was one comment that I thought was telling:

“We do see it as something of a headwind as the economy is attempting to recover.”

This is worst kind of "Fed Speak" in my opinion. These deep thinkers have it completely wrong. They think that the key to having a stronger economy is higher stock prices. So they spend all of their efforts dreaming up ways to keep the S&P ramping up. I think it is the exact other way around. If the economy were to be growing, it is reasonable to assume that stock price might rise. It is completely false to assume that attempts to jigger stocks higher will lead to a stronger economy.  

The dog wags the tail. The tail does not wag the dog.

This is what we get for having academics from Princeton running the show. They have the cause and effect backwards. No wonder the economy sucks.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
KEYWORDS: bearmarket; economy; fed; stocks
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1 posted on 08/23/2011 11:34:15 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Interestingly, 2021 would coincide nicely with Strauss-Howe generational theory. According to their theory, we have another 10 years or so to go in this crisis phase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory


2 posted on 08/23/2011 11:38:55 AM PDT by Huck (Read Antifederalist Brutus)
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To: SeekAndFind

We’ll be lucky if we ONLY have 15 years of a crappy economy. I really think it will be closer to 50 years.


3 posted on 08/23/2011 11:39:25 AM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: SeekAndFind

My goodness, if this isn’t a buy signal, I don’t know what is.

Hah! The Fed. The Fed couldn’t hit the ground with a hat.


4 posted on 08/23/2011 11:50:19 AM PDT by RexBeach (Mr. Obama can't count.)
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To: mamelukesabre

Any mention of earnings in the price/earnings ratio? I think the economy is better measured by earnings not stock prices.


5 posted on 08/23/2011 11:53:23 AM PDT by Procyon (Decentralize, degovernmentalize, deregulate, demonopolize, decredentialize, disentitle.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Not that Fed Economists have a track record of predicting anything, I wonder what they see for the future of Freddie MAC and Fannie Mae? Oh I know, they need more money to keep going.


6 posted on 08/23/2011 11:57:29 AM PDT by Harley (Will Rogers never met Harry Reid.)
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To: SeekAndFind
If the Fed says we are in for a fifteen year bear market, then it is time to BUY! BUY! BUY!
7 posted on 08/23/2011 11:59:24 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: Huck

Serious reverse Shoe Shine Boy buy signal.

The world should get richer in 20 years and that capital will be somewhere and it will flow to its best returns. Studying the investor is silly IMO. If gov’ts destroy private enterprise stocks will be worthless. If private enterprise is strong money will find it.


8 posted on 08/23/2011 12:05:33 PM PDT by Rippin
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To: SeekAndFind

Nothing like a BS prediction from the Fed the send Wall St. on a buying spree!


9 posted on 08/23/2011 12:07:09 PM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t have time to find the numbers, but my recollection is that at last check, “people”, ie individual “Retail” investors make up less than 15% of the amount of money invested in the stock exchanges. The balance, 85% is foriegn companies, institutions, pension plans, etc. Thus............this whole line of logic is flawed and unworthy of further consideration.


10 posted on 08/23/2011 12:14:03 PM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: Rippin

I’ve been building up some decent positions in good dividend payers since 08. A little oil stock, a little consumer brands, a little agri-biz, a little nat. gas. Too chicken to buy banks!


11 posted on 08/23/2011 12:15:01 PM PDT by Huck (Read Antifederalist Brutus)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t know that I agree with their 15 year prediction, but I could see a secular bear of 6 to 8 years, easy.

People need to realize that debt deflations are different than “normal” recessions. Debt deflations take a long time to work out, and longer if the government keeps messing with them. Some bond holders in banks need to admit that they’re going to take a loss, and the government needs to quit propping up banks run by idiots.


12 posted on 08/23/2011 12:17:50 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Huck

DMLP, HGT, ERF.....pretty good income


13 posted on 08/23/2011 12:19:35 PM PDT by Osage Orange ("Marine Sniper - You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: Huck

Sounds like good sectors. Any transports with that?


14 posted on 08/23/2011 12:21:51 PM PDT by Rippin
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To: Rippin

Is that like shipping companies? Not at the moment. Not a bad thought. Right now I’ve got JNJ, KFT (semi-dogs, but good dividend payers and decently diversified companies), MOO (agri etf), TCLP (love this one), PAYX, and my wife just had to have Tata motors. I had FCX but sold way too early. Live and learn.


15 posted on 08/23/2011 12:26:48 PM PDT by Huck (Read Antifederalist Brutus)
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To: Rippin

Forgot to mention COP. Bought that one cheap. Another decent stock. Would like to buy another oil stock at some point, just to spread the risk around.


16 posted on 08/23/2011 12:29:42 PM PDT by Huck (Read Antifederalist Brutus)
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To: Osage Orange

Thanks. Those are good looking dividend payers. My wife and I only buy good dividend paying stocks.


17 posted on 08/23/2011 12:33:46 PM PDT by Huck (Read Antifederalist Brutus)
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To: Osage Orange

All affordably priced too. Nice tips. Thanks.


18 posted on 08/23/2011 12:34:29 PM PDT by Huck (Read Antifederalist Brutus)
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To: Huck

MO


19 posted on 08/23/2011 1:03:17 PM PDT by petercooper (2012 - Purge more RINO's.)
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To: Huck

was wondering what you think of rails and Fedex/UPS.


20 posted on 08/23/2011 8:02:36 PM PDT by Rippin
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