Posted on 10/10/2017 12:49:31 PM PDT by re_tail20
A collection of 30 Mistakes made in the “Vietnamese War” - and “Lessons Learned”
i just finished watching all ten episodes of Ken Burns’ “The Vietnam War”, and I think that, while far from a totally complete view, which would take about 1,000 hours, it presented a much more fleshed out story than previous attempts, incorporating many new declassified tapes and conversations, and presenting many new photos, film footage, and perspectives.
i came of age after the Vietnamese War, and have constantly heard and read about the “Lessons of Vietnam.” When this happens, i would always scream, “What Lessons?”, because they always stopped on that. Usually, this phrase was mentioned by people who thought that the Vietnam experience had showed that the U. S. should not intervene anymore in world affairs at all.
Over the years, i’ve tried to figure out what happened in the Vietnamese War and why it happened, and it’s been very hard. Going through countless books, articles, and columns, there’s been so many myths, lies, distortions, hypotheticals, and what if’s over the years, all caused by either the government, the anti-war movement, and the media. All are guilty, I’ve learned.
Here we go with the Mistakes
1.
First off - with what it is called.
You’ll notice I say “Vietnamese War” instead of “Vietnam War”
The reason is this.
Do we call our war with Mexico the Mexico War? No. it’s the Mexican war, or the Mexican-American war.
Do we call our war with Spain the Spain war? No. it’s the Spanish-American war.
Do we call our war with Korea the Korea war? No. it’s the Korean war.
So why do we call our with with Vietnam the Vietnam war?
To be standardized and consistent, it’s the Vietnamese war.
For consistency, I’ll also say “Afghani War”and “Iraqi War.”
1945 - 1950
2.
The U. S. allowing France to take back Vietnam as a colony under the threat from Charles De Gaulle to put France in the “Russian orbit” if it didn’t happen
1950 - 1960
3.
Using the Korea template for Vietnam - and trying to create a Capitalist South and a Communist North
In 1954, North Vietnam and South Vietnam were arbitrarily created. The Vietnamese had wanted their one Vietnam for centuries, and they finally got in in 1945. in their hearts, both the North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese didn’t recognize the division, and viewed North Vietnam, and not South Vietnam, as the true one Vietnam, even if it was communist. Many South Vietnamese civilians supported the VC or NVA by setting up booby traps, and many ARVN soldiers supported the VC or NVA by leaking info on military plans.
So the South Vietnamese and us both had the odds stacked against us from the beginning, and trying to legitimatize a free and independent South Vietnam was almost an impossible task. Just like in our Civil War, the only way the South could have prevailed and established itself is if the North did nothing or gave up after one lost battle, and the North did neither.
In one of his columns, retired Col. David Hackworth said,
“In the July 5, 1971 issue of Newsweek, I said, “The North Vietnamese flag will fly over Saigon in 1975.”…I’m still often asked how I knew. My reply: I’d been there five years commanding U. S. infantry units and advising (South) Vietnamese (ARVN) Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces. After three years of eyeballing the (South) Vietnamese firsthand, I damn well knew that their "elite" units couldn't hack it and that ordinary ARVN grunts would cave-in when put to the test. I felt like a doctor with his hand on a dying patient's pulse. There was no medicine, no transfusion, no magic pill that could have saved the corrupt South Vietnamese government and its equally corrupt and inept military.”
Nevertheless, I still think and believe that if all the below and above mistakes weren’t made, then there was a very small chance that Vietnam could be made to follow the Korea template, with a Capitalist South and a Communist North taking root in the hearts of the Vietnamese people. But it would have taken several decades, with no room for any mistakes, and too many mistakes were made
1960 - 1964
4.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff being excluded and marginalized from the Vietnam decision making process by John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, and Gen. Maxwell Taylor, and not able to get an official Vietnam strategy with objectives and action steps for those objectives adopted which the military people could use.
5.
The Cuban Missile Crisis giving birth to the flawed “graduated pressure” strategy concept - which was later wrongly applied to Vietnam
6.
The strategy, training, and equipment for the South Vietnamese not matching what was needed on the actual ground.
1964 - 1968
Here is where the bulk of the mistakes occurred - made by what Lewis Sorley called, in paraphrase, “A perfect storm of bad people”
Political culprits
John Kennedy - President of the United States
Lyndon Johnson - President of the United States
Robert McNamara - Secretary of Defense
Military culprits
Gen. Maxwell Taylor - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Gen. Earle Wheeler - Army Chief of Staff and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Gen. William Westmoreland - Commander of Army Forces in Vietnam
Gen. William De Puy - Gen. William Westmoreland’s chief deputy and chief advisor
7.
Not having an overall U. S. Commander of the Sea, Land, and Air Forces of the U. S. Navy, Marine, Army, and Air Force units in Vietnam to coordinate all strategy
8.
In 1964 - on the recommendation of Gen. Maxwell Taylor - appointing Gen. William Westmoreland, an artillery and staff general only open to conventional warfare, to replace Gen. Paul Harkins as Army Commander of MACV - instead of Gen. Creighton Abrams, Gen. Bruce Palmer, or Gen. Harold Johnson, the other three Generals on the list, all three of which viewed Vietnam as the majority counterinsurgency situation that it was.
9.
Gen. Earle Wheeler telling Gen. William Westmoreland, following the flawed “graduated pressure” strategy, “The North (Vietnamese) can’t match us in a build up.”
10.
Not eliminating the entrenched Viet Cong infrastructure in place in the South Vietnamese villages early enough via a “Phoenix Program” - and not doing the “clear and hold” around the population areas
11.
With no strategy in place approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff with objectives and action steps to achieve those objectives, on the recommendation of Gen. De Puy - Gen. Westmoreland’s adoption of the bad “search and destroy” military plan
12.
Not mining the harbors of Hai Phong at the beginning
13.
Not invading Laos and cutting the Ho Chi Minh trail at the beginning
14.
President Lyndon Johnson telling the Army, “Kill me more Viet Cong”, which caused the Army to start the infamous “body count” policy
15
Defense Secretary Robert McNamara’s worship of metrics - thinking everything could be solved or made more efficient by them, and not understanding their limitations
“if you fire “x” number of bullets or “x” number of artillery shells, you are expected to kill “y” number of Viet Cong guerrillas or “y” number of NVA soldiers”
16.
President Lyndon Johnson picking bombing targets
17.
Deploying U. S. units over as a whole, but breaking their cohesion by transferring their non-commissioned officers out after six months, and transferring their enlisted men back home one at a time, arbitrarily, after 12 months.
18.
Not calling up the Reserves and declaring total mobilization and commitment by doing so
19.
Not changing the draft to be a 100 % lottery - like in World War II and the Korean War - instead keeping the peacetime draft rules with all its college deferments in place
20.
Not giving (then) state of the art M-16 rifles to the South Vietnamese Army early enough - instead leaving them with (then) obsolete, and too big for them, M-1 Garands and (barely adequate) M-1 Carbines.
21.
Creating a culture of dependency on the U. S. in South Vietnamese society
22.
Not imposing media restrictions on the media - as had happened during World War II and the Korean War.
23.
The corrupt South Vietnamese governments assigning jobs to family connections instead of ability, having a military configured to fight internal power struggles just as much as the communists, and either cancelling elections or rigging elections
24.
The South Vietnamese government being a catholic minority ruling over a buddhist majority, instead of a buddhist majority ruling over a catholic minority
1968 - 1975
25.
Again, equipment, strategy, and training not matching what was sustainable for the South Vietnamese and proper for the war they were actually fighting
26.
Not including a South Vietnamese delegation at the Paris peace talks so both the U. S. and South Vietnam could be on the same page regarding the negotiations - and not communicating with the South Vietnamese about negotiations strategy and results.
27.
Allowing 145,000 North Vietnamese Army troops to stay in South Vietnam in the final peace settlement
28.
Not leaving a small number of regular U. S. troops and Special Forces in South Vietnam to make it harder for funds and equipment to be cut off
29.
Cutting off all funds and military equipment to South Vietnam
30.
Gen De Puy becoming head of training at West Point after the war, and banishing Vietnam from the curriculum, saying that nothing could be learned from it.
So, doing a little “Reverse Engineering“, lets find out the “Lessons Learned”
One overall lesson - don’t have bad people in office and power
1.
Have all your wars named properly
2.
If any ally of yours threatens you with blackmail, call his bluff
3.
Make sure your ally is legitimate and has, or can have, the support of the populace, and has the fire in the belly to stand on his own
4.
Keep the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the decision making process
5.
Be extremely careful about applying lessons from one international event to a different one
6.
Equipment, strategy, and training should match what is sustainable to your ally
7.
Have an overall Commander of the Sea, Land, and Air Forces to coordinate strategy
8.
Have the right Generals and Officers in place in the top ranks - the ones with the right kind of experience and background and outlook.
9.
Have not just a strategy, but one that is sound, valid, and solid.
10.
Focus on the population areas, destroy any entrenched enemy infrastructure in your ally’s cities and villages, and force the enemy to come to you, on your terms
11.
Have a strategy with objectives and action steps to achieve those objectives so commanders on the ground aren’t forced to, or feel they have to, make up their own strategy
12.
Cut off the enemy’s supplies at the beginning from wherever they are coming from
13.
See number 11 above
14.
Don’t evaluate military progress by body counts
15.
Metrics should only be used within their limitations
16.
The President should not pick bombing targets
17.
Units should be deployed as a whole - and the non-commissioned officers not transferred out - and the units should be brought back as a whole
18.
The Reserves should be called up and made available - meaning total national mobilization and commitment and investment
19.
Military ranks should be filled by either an all volunteer force or a 100 % draft lottery - with no draft deferments for going to college or doing social work
20.
Your ally should receive state of the art weapons and training on how to use them, as long as it is sustainable
21.
Don’t create a culture of dependence in your ally’s society on you
22.
In war and battle, there should be restrictions on the media with censorship
23.
Your ally should not be corrupt, and should not cancel elections or rig elections
24.
In your ally’s domestic politics, a minority should not rule over a majority
25.
See number 5
26.
Include your ally in any peace talks so you and your ally will be on the same page - and don’t shut out your ally
27.
Don’t allow the enemy’s troops on your ally’s soil in the final settlement
28.
Leave a small contingent of troops as an investment
29.
Don’t cut off funds and equipment to your friends and allies
30.
Never say that nothing can be learned from the last war or battle or incident, even if it was failure and defeat
Regarding the subsequent battles and wars of the Persian Gulf War, the Afghani War, and the Iraqi War, I think that the bulk of the lessons were followed.
To all of you Vietnamese War Veterans, i salute you, and it wasn’t all for nothing. In one interview I read with Gen. Bui Tin, who commanded the tank that crashed through Presidential Palace in 1975 and who took the surrender of the South Vietnamese government, he said that the Communists were riding “piggyback” on anti-imperialist movement, and had ambitions to expand to surrounding countries like Singapore and Indonesia. But the U. S. decision to fight in Vietnam bought time for Singapore and Indonesia to configure themselves to resist the Communists, which they did. So, while you weren’t able to save South Vietnam, you were able to help Singapore and Indonesia save themselves.
There is an old saying in conflict theory that if one side is saying "What is mine, is mine and what is yours is negotiable" and the other side plays by those rules they are going to lose.
Almost all the fighting was South of the DMZ we never once sent a major battle force North of the DMZ to take and hold ground. Yet the NVA and VC were constantly attacking South of the DMZ. Hell we never sent troops into Cambodia to disrupt the Ho Chi Minh trail until Nixon and he only did so in attempt to get a stronger position in the peace negotiations. Nixon finally mined the harbors in the North to stop the influx of war materials into the country by USSR and China but again that was well towards the end and to get a stronger position in the negotiations.
You don't win a war by just killing people you also remove their ability to make war by taking all their territory and destroying/denying their resupply chains. But apparently we don't do that anymore.
looking back, the tactics used were jaw dropping stupid...chasing these guys around in Asian jungles, good grief. Walt Rostow very early on told Johnson to put troops into Vingh where the Ho Chi Minh trail actually started, then unleash the Air Force on Hanoi..4 weeks tops that war would have been over...Johnson claimed he was afraid China or the Soviets would join in the fight.
Yeah, see.. you keep trying that and it keeps not working.
It's funny over here, but over there it has to be kind of sad.
Shut up, Ike Clanton.
um... fight to win, and do whatever necessary to win as quickly as possible with the fewest casualties on OUR side.
that is the only mistake.
Either fight to win, or don’t fight at all.
Only one of your mistakes was partially fatal, mining the harbors too late. However, once they were mined and the Christmas bombings of North Vietnam got underway in December 1972, probably another 3-5 days of the same intensity would have won the war outright. The NV government was at the point of surrender but Nixon by then was carrying operation Linebacker II to get the prisoners home and the NV back to the table and not to win the war. Had he known they were ready to surrender, he would have no doubt kept going but he didnt. He had his tactics right but his goals wrong and it cost us the war and wasted 58,000 American lives.
What great fortune Kennedy didn't have to speak in Hamburg.
Going to war to stop them wouldn't have been on the table unless it was all volunteers
You can tell all that by my posts? You are very astute, sir. Kudos.
Shut, ur asshole, two bit losah! FR’s Anal canal! ..
If you don't have that as your ultimate goal, there's no point in fighting.
Communism is evil but it wasn't a national threat to keep them at bay. It wasn't a direct threat to the US.
I'm glad you're not in charge of strategy...or at least I hope you're not.
Communism, like Nazism, needs to be defeated. They are opposite sides of the same coin.
You can’t win a football game if you never cross the 50 yard line.
I'm saying the way it was fought was piss poor. You must of missed the part that i agreed with MaCarthur and finish the war quick and decisively.
If we played footsies with the enemy as we did. Then it should be an all volunteer action.
The way you supposed to fight a war. If ANYONE allies with your enemy they get stomped on no different then the primary enemy. If you don't then the war is over before you started.
There’s a great book that came out 20 years ago, around the time that
“JFK” by Oliver Stone came out. It’s called “JFK and Vietnam”. It makes a compelling case that, yes, Kennedy knew that South Vietnam was a lost cause, and couldn’t be made to stand on its own, and that the U.S. should cut its losses and make a stand elsewhere. His challenge was to withdraw all 16,000 U. S. advisors by 1965, all the while still looking strong and winning re-election. Those who claim that had he won re-election that 500,000 U. S combat troops would be in Vietnam by 1967, exactly the same as Johnson, are on very shaky ground, I think.
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