At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then there's an odd ball patrolman with his AR with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage? Posted on 01/25/2019 5:15:15 AM PST by w1n1
At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then there's an odd ball patrolman with his AR with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage?
The logic behind the usage of an AR stems from situations where a firearm needed for greater range than a shotgun. Or how about shotgun folks talk about having knock down power to stop the fight with its 00 buck. AR's high velocity & capacity with 30 round mag makes up for lack of Knock Down Power. Which is better?
There needs to be a determination that each gun should be fired at the same target and at the same range. Because the idea is to ascertain some kind of combat effectiveness under stress, a time limit needs to be establish on each stage.
Test
This test was based from Wiley Clapp test out on Gunsite where he had two Range Masters both skilled with the shotgun and an AR go through this special course of fire. (Bill Murphy – shotgun and Vince Morgan – AR-15)
This course of fire were as follow:
A shooter armed with respective firearm would engage a silhouette at various ranges. First at 15 yards, then 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. At the command of a whistle the shooter would have 3 seconds to fire off as many rounds as possible onto the target. Read the rest of this shotgun vs AR15.
I would take the AR but certainly would not feel poorly armed with the shotgun.
BTW, at one time the Ithaca model 37 was probably used by more agencies than the 870. Both are superb shotguns. The model 37 was designed by Browning or at least was a copy of his design.
“Next subject; Screwdriver or hammer? Which is better? “
I sometimes bang a screw in with a hammer and sometimes knock a nail in with a screwdriver.
The guys I was familiar with carried a shotgun in the front seat and a mini-14 in the trunk.
You’re in a car. You can carry both.
So, 2 shotguns.
So, 12ga vs. 16ga personalities... Obviously, the pump is slower than the semiauto firing rate but that doesn't reflect the differences in the cartridges. The 12ga has a substantial kick to it and takes a LOT longer to get a second aimed shot off. The key word in this is aimed and and not shot in the general direction when going for speed for follow on shots.
For several years while in college, I was skeet shooting quite a bit. Usually there were four of us and each of us often going through a couple of hundred rounds. In homage to my 1st shotgun, I usually shot my 1st round with the 12ga pump. I got a lot of ribbing for that and for good reason. The first shot was okay but the second was pretty much a general point and pray. After that, I switched to the Browning 16ga semiauto so I could hit the clay's reasonably. Also, we swapped guns a lot so I got quite a bit of skeet range time usually on Benelli 16ga over-unders. At my level of competence, the Benelli was better balanced (as it should be at several times the cost) but my round scores were not much different. For the better shooters in our group though, they could properly take advantage of the Benelli for better scores.
Speed though in a self defense situation at shorter range. With my semiauto 16ga Browning I can empty it of 3 adequately aimed shots in a touch over 1 second (it's plugged for hunting). A lotta lead in the air. That's assuming one target so not refocusing on a second target. No way no how can I can come close to that with a 12ga pump.
Personally, that is how I get a lag bolt started. With a hammer. THEN I go to the socket and ratchet. Or maybe a long, fat #12 or #14 wood screw for quick and dirty. Otherwise, a pilot, shank and countersink drill bit gets things started for more finished work.
You need a TS-12 for the close ones and drag out the 7MM mag for the ones running away.
Remember the North Hollywood Shootout, in which two bank robbers with body armor and full auto rifles shot it out with the police?
The shotguns and handguns of the police did no good so the police ran to a local sporting goods store and “borrowed” semi-auto .223 and .308 rifles to take down the bank robbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Now the firearms borrowed by the police ARE BANNED in California.
Depends on the gunfight.
Interesting article. But full of grammatical errors.
Under ‘Results’ there are no results listed. Who won?
Watching “Live PD” occasionally would indicate that every patrol officer in the USA is armed with an AR-15. Why do patrol officers need AR-15’s? Most police encounters take place at close range and a shotgun is the preferred weapon for that. Recently a cop was killed by friendly fire from an AR-15 that penetrated his bullet-resistant vest at a shooting incident in California. Using an AR-15 inside a crowded building during a police shootout is sheer idiocy. More evidence of the unnecessary and unwise militarization of American police. I have no issues with arming SWAT teams with mil-spec gear but patrol officers? Come on!
In other words, about average for 'Am Shooting Journal'.
Next up from 'Am Shooting Journal':
"Which is the Best Handgun Cartridge - 410 or 223?"
;^)
In other words, about average for 'Am Shooting Journal'. 8~)
Exactly! If I am clearing a building where a gunfight could be at close quarters, give me the shotgun. It is going to have tremendous knock down power and at close ranges the buckshot pattern is not going to spread as much and possibly hit an innocent by stander.
I knew a deputy about 15 yrs. ago who’s department was dirt poor cash wise. He carried a Ruger P89 as his sidearm but they didn’t issue long guns unless you wanted to pony up for the piece yourself. He had just started and had little funds but he did put a rifle in his trunk, an old Russian Mosin-Nagant and some stripper clips. As he said it was better than nothing and he was pretty good shooting that thing.
You just have to love compromises.
00 buck won’t carry a mile or two and kill that woman sitting at the bus stop. It wont pass through house walls and kill granny in the kitchen 200 yards away.
Sorry but 00 buck will fully penetrate house walls. May not get granny in the next house but it could easily get granny two rooms away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dbtBWp_beo
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