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The M1 Abrams Tank: Too Fat To Fight A War?
19FortyFIve ^ | 1/27/2021 | Caleb Larson

Posted on 01/28/2021 4:53:33 AM PST by Onthebrink

Too ‘fat’ to fight?: Ironically the M1 Abrams tank has become more logistically complicated as it has become better armed and better protected, resulting in a platform that some would argue is of dubious combat effectiveness.

The Challenge

There is an argument to be made that the United Sates’s main battle tank, the venerable M1 Abrams, is the best-protected, most effective, and certainly one of the most combat-tested tanks in the world.

(Excerpt) Read more at 19fortyfive.com ...


TOPICS: Government; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: army; blogpimp; history; military; spamspamblogsandspam; usmilitary
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1 posted on 01/28/2021 4:53:33 AM PST by Onthebrink
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To: Onthebrink
"Ironically the M1 Abrams tank has become more logistically complicated as it has become better armed and better protected..."

What's ironic about that? It would be ironic if the tank became less logistically complicated as it became increasingly capable.

2 posted on 01/28/2021 4:57:24 AM PST by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack

You make an interesting point: maybe logistical complexity needs to be given a higher priority in the evaluation of the efficacy of modern weapon systems?

It’s troubling that ‘taking the meat out of the seat’ is now the rallying cry with new weapons systems.

That has never worked out well. Keeping the meat in the seat is as important as making these weapon systems both effective and readily deployable.


3 posted on 01/28/2021 5:01:03 AM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Joe 6-pack

It’s the old elephant versus the ants parable.

I remember some Nazi general on the historic World at War BBC series said that the more capable German Army was like the elephant, and crushed and stomped millions of Soviet ants but in the end they were able to use their numbers to overwhelm Jumbo.

The key to fighting a populous foe is to not engage him on the ground mano-to-mano but to kill as many from far away until the numbers go down to an even fight.

We did so during the first Gulf War against Saddam’s huge army.

Since then, we’ve only fought strong but few in number guerilla forces in a kind of whack-a-mole manner.

If we have to face the Chinese and/or Russians, we need to go back to the Air Land Battle tactics we developed in the 1980s and perfected in Desert Storm.

And then, yes, the M1 has a very important job once the raw numbers of lesser armor is reduced as part of the Air Campaign. The superior M1 takes up the Land Campaign AFTER we sprayed the Ant poison, sort to speak.


4 posted on 01/28/2021 5:06:13 AM PST by Alas Babylon! ("You, the American people, are my only special interest." --President Donald J. Trump)
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To: Onthebrink

What war are we going to fight with tanks?


5 posted on 01/28/2021 5:07:26 AM PST by Texas Fossil ((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
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To: Onthebrink

At least it’s not a tranny.


6 posted on 01/28/2021 5:08:55 AM PST by Old Yeller (Nana Pelosi is a manure salesman with a mouthful of samples. Thus the slurred speaking.)
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To: Texas Fossil

What war are we going to fight with tanks?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CW II, against lightly armed civilians?


7 posted on 01/28/2021 5:09:18 AM PST by Candor7 ((Obama Fascism:http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html) )
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To: Texas Fossil

Next time we’re up against an enemy who has his own tanks, I imagine.


8 posted on 01/28/2021 5:10:33 AM PST by shaven_llama
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To: Texas Fossil

Whatever one the Hawks and military-industrial complex decides on, now that they got that pesky Pres. Trump out of the way. Best way for them to make money, and who cares about the dumb grunts (Meat?? really?).


9 posted on 01/28/2021 5:10:41 AM PST by twyn1
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To: Onthebrink

The Abrams needs to be simplified for the influx of transgender recruits so they can service and repair the tank,as well as operate it.


10 posted on 01/28/2021 5:11:14 AM PST by Candor7 ((Obama Fascism:http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html) )
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To: RinaseaofDs
I was an M1A1 Abrams platoon leader and Company XO before I branch transferred to the MP Corps. This was a while back before many of the upgrades. Back then there were some people that were big on autoloaders for tanks and the elimination of one of the crew members. Of course there were plusses and minuses to to both sides, but I came down firmly on the side of the four man crew.

Future MBTs will likely have a 130mm main gun or larger, and will get to the point where they need an autoloader. They'd still be smart to somehow work a fourth crew member into the design.

In a protracted operation, even in a static defense, somebody needs to pull radio watch and security. A fourth crew member in that rotation means that each person gets more sleep. No matter how good the design, a tank in rough terrain will sooner or later throw track, and righting that situation is not done without having people outside the vehicle exerting a lot of muscle power. Three people doing that instead of four is very problematic, especially when you want one on top manning the .50 or need one in the driver's hole to creep the vehicle back and forth to set the track.

11 posted on 01/28/2021 5:11:20 AM PST by Joe 6-pack
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To: Texas Fossil

They may see some play in the second American civil war.


12 posted on 01/28/2021 5:11:27 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: Joe 6-pack

My best friend was an Abrams platoon leader too. He was in the Gulf War.

He feels the same way. You need four guys.

Guys. Not girls, either.


13 posted on 01/28/2021 5:14:42 AM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Onthebrink

I worked on the Abrams for ten years as an engineer at General Dynamics. The evolving battlefield means that tankers miles behind the lines are vulnerable to tiny drones. The army has known this for a long time. The army repeatedly asked for smaller, lighter, more logistically friendly vehicles. I was at a meeting were they asked and a VP laughed at the Colonel and told him dismissively, no, you want the Abrams. (If looks could have killed, that VP would have burst into flakes.).

GD is of the opinion that small vehicles means small profits.


14 posted on 01/28/2021 5:15:31 AM PST by Gen.Blather (Wait! I said that out loud? )
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To: Texas Fossil

ALWAYS need ground mechanized weaponry. But what bothers me is the overabundance of electronics vulnerable to failure. I only hope the tank electronics fails in a mode that enables the crew to still operate the tank and weaponry, but I have my doubts.


15 posted on 01/28/2021 5:17:19 AM PST by SgtHooper (If you remember the 60's, YOU WEREN'T THERE!)
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To: Onthebrink

Like the MA Deuce, it will be around a long, long time. Another gift from a better generation.


16 posted on 01/28/2021 5:20:29 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (All I know is The I read in the papers.)
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To: Texas Fossil

“What war are we going to fight with tanks”

No action where the US has time to get tanks on the battlefield is still a war, tanks, A-10s and apaches are the maids, cleaning up the faithful that think they still have a chance.


17 posted on 01/28/2021 5:23:02 AM PST by protoconservative (Been Conservative Before You Were Born )
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To: Onthebrink
The Marine Corps has eliminatwd all of its tank battalions as part of an overall "lightening" of the force.

Not too sure our smart that is, personally. You don't always get to pick and choose your opponents. Politicians do that.

18 posted on 01/28/2021 5:45:22 AM PST by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Joe 6-pack
They'd still be smart to somehow work a fourth crew member into the design.

YEp, I was a tanker first on M60A3s and then on M1IPs. Fourth crew member gives a _lot_ more flexibility. But count on having some MBA with a spreadsheet disprove that.

19 posted on 01/28/2021 5:45:51 AM PST by glorgau
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To: Onthebrink

The recent conflict in Azerbagani demonstrated that armor did not do well against modern well armed drones. It would be wise for the US to have war games evaluating the Abrams tank against the Israeli made drones that decimated the Armenian armor.


20 posted on 01/28/2021 5:48:48 AM PST by allendale
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