Lock was cut on gate barring road (VANDALS CUT LOCK ON GATE - JAMES KIM STORY)

MSNBC / The Associated Press ^ | 12/8/06 | Not Listed

[OregonRancher]

"From the looks of the overheads I saw, a proper vehicle would have been able to negotiate the roads with or without snow."

I'm going to be nice this time! You have no idea how deep and heavy coastal snow is up there on Bear Camp Rd. I have 4X4 diesel trucks that I wouldn't even think of traversing that road in the winter. The only thing I'd use is my Polaris snowmobile and go with a buddy on his, along with our bug out bags.

At Crater Lake, the snow averages 550 inches a season, and for you, that means over 45 feet of snow with a snow load equal to Lake Tahoe's which is 220 pounds per square foot at the lake level....

I have been on that road in the winter and turned back when confronted with a solid wall of snow on the north face completely blocking the road. The road cut had been completely covered...

[OregonRancher]

Hi BruceysMom,
Where are you located? I'm on the Rogue...

[Mamzelle]

Found in a creek--probably in the throes of hypothermia (which brings about a sensation of being overheated) and he was trying to cool off. Victims of "freezing to death" are often found naked.

[Sir_Ed]

I went through a snow drift in early June two years ago on Bear Camp Road!

I'd never try to drive up it in winter...

Ed

[Lurker]

I have a GPS but I still carry a compass and topo maps in unfamiliar areas.

Batteries fail. Electronics get wet or damaged.

Compasses always work.

L

[OregonRancher]

I memorize my maps when going into an unfamiliar area. Another trick is to turn around every 200 yards or so and look at your back trail. If you don't and have to back track, nothing will look familiar and you will get lost...

Try hunting elk in the blue mountains some time; when you do that a few times, it gives a whole new meaning to the word "hunting".

[paulat]

Found in a creek--probably in the throes of hypothermia (which brings about a sensation of being overheated) and he was trying to cool off. Victims of "freezing to death" are often found naked.

I can't stand how many people on these threads confuse "hypo" with "hyper."

There are NO examples of people dying of "hypothermia" throwing their clothes off!!!

[paulat]

I'm ready to scream...hypothermia is when you're cold. Hyperthermia is when you're hot.

People...PLEASE get a clue!!!

NOBODY with hypothermia throws off his clothes!!!

He was throwing off his daughter's skirt, etc., to leave a trail.

Please don't be so ignorant!!!!

[paulat]

probably in the throes of hypothermia (which brings about a sensation of being overheated)

NO, IT DOESN'T!!!

[VOA]

Only the naive or foolish would attempt it in winter, in the dark.

What is scary is how some places don't look dangerous, but can be lethal.

I grew up in the FLAT wheat country of north-central Oklahoma.
On a country two-lane blacktop that leads to I-35 south of Blackwell
there is a very shallow "wash" that one hardly notices when cruising along.
It's at most a 4-5 foot dip over a couple of hundred yards.
And there is no real stream in the shallow 90% of the year.

BUT...I always remember my mom telling me how a man and his family
tried to drive that patch of road during one of our Oklahoma "toad-chockers".

They found the bodies of the family washed downhill a couple of
hundred yards from the shallow.

I never understood how this could have happened until I saw a safety
program in which it said to never enter water higher than your
vehicles axles. And even then avoid areas of swift-current water if
it's below the axles.

[BruceysMom]

When I look out my living room window, I see the JO CO court house two blocks a way.

[OregonRancher]

Down around 4th st? lately I've been spending a lot of time at the City Hall playing games with the planning department making them play by the rules....

[Mamzelle]

LOL--really, just LOL.

[Mamzelle]

I'll try to move carefully.

Hypothermia is "exposure"--being too cold because it's just plain too cold for the body to endure. Also happens in cold water to shipwreck victims.

And being too cold for too long causes blood vessels to do strange things. One these strange things is to confuse the body with a sensation of being too hot.

If the sufferer can still move, they sometimes take off their clothes.

Now, you can bay at the moon.

[Tarpon]

Why yes I do, having been to this area several times.

Assuming the TV reporter who was conducting the on camera report was correct ... From the overheads that showed up on my TV from the helicopter, half or more of the road was bare dirt, so obviously the snow wasn't that deep. I assume you also saw the shots, they were on all day. I only lived in CA for 15 years and did quite a bit of travel to the sierra's, Oregon and other places on the coast. At times we had snow so blinding you couldn't see the road and had to just stop and wait it out. I assume that if the snow were so deep that the people in question couldn't go forward they would have turned back as well. For some odd reason, they did not, so it obviously wasn't that bad when they started out.

I fail to see your point, either the snow was too deep and they couldn't go from the beginning, or the snow as seen on the TV screen was deep enough to disable their car and prevent them from getting back out of a bad situation that they themselves got into. If as you say, they plowed head on into way too deep snow, well that falls into the category of ... I heard nothing in any TV newscast that said the area was hit by huge snow depth storms in the hours it took for them to get stuck. Since the road is only a few miles long, the transit time IN I am assuming was hours not days or weeks.

Been in snow so deep that the snow accumulated under the vehicle raised the undercarriage and wouldn't let the wheels touch the ground, and the snow was literally piled over the hood.

So be nice when you accuse others of not knowing. I guess the unanswered question you might have is why did they try to go forward in what was basically a car, if as you say the snow was so deep that ... Just because I don't now live there does not mean I don't understand Oregon coastal snow.

BTW, I didn't say I would attempt to traverse the road through coastal snow depths in winter either, regardless what I was driving.

Be safe. The idea is to increase your chances of surviving with proper clothing and equipment, but you can't guarantee it no matter what you do.

[BruceysMom]

Other direction, 8th st. The planning commission is out of control. All you have to do is head down Redwood Ave. to prove that!

[pandoraou812]

Paulat, link to this http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/safety/hypocold.shtml
scroll down until you read the following
c. Moderate Hypothermia - core temperature 95 - 93 degrees F

Dazed consciousness
Loss of fine motor coordination - particularly in hands - can't zip up parka, due to restricted peripheral blood flow
Slurred speech
Violent shivering
Irrational behavior - Paradoxical Undressing - person starts to take off clothing, unaware s/he is cold
"I don't care attitude" - flattened affect

You don't know it all it seems because I just linked you to facts. Now is that twaddle too? ~~Pandora~~

[pandoraou812]

More info for you and link.

Mr. Kim, who was wearing tennis shoes, pants, a sweater and jacket, apparently shed some of his clothes after he left the car. Law enforcement authorities speculated that he had intended to leave a trail, but some medical experts said he might have become disoriented by hypothermia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/us/07oregon.html?ex=1181106000&en=b80a6ccdd49cac3d&ei=5087&excamp=GGGNjameskim

All the news stories I heard said he was leaving his pants and other clothing behind, I heard no mention of a skirt so you could be rightt but I think he just tried so hard he got confused after being so cold and weak. So there is no need to yell at people. You are wrong on this , people do shed clothing. Prayers for the Kim Family.... Have a great night ~~Pandora~~

[Sir_Ed]

The snow was a lot deeper when Jim got lost. But we had a few days of really warm weather and it all melted.

Ed

[Sir_Ed]

I live on the banks of the Rogue River along the Rogue River Highway. In the summertime I can see the salmon jumping the rapids, and the Herons wading in the shallows.

Isn't JoCo a wonderful area to live?

Ed