Posted on 03/12/2015 7:17:13 PM PDT by daniel1212
“I got in a bit of trouble here when I suggested that the Bill of Rights should only have pertained to Government Institutions, not Private Businesses.”
Do you mean the Civil Rights Act rather than the Bill of Rights? If so then that is the same view as Barry Goldwater in 1964. And Ronald Reagan was one of Goldwater’s most ardent supporters.
Conservatives believed that individuals had the right to believe and behave as they wished. Liberals were more authoritarian and wanted to be able to control everyone. They succeeded so well we now have a lot of today’s “conservatives” singing the praises of the crowning achievement of Great Society liberalism.
I’d go a step further, and cause a row again—there is a line of thinking that says Sec. Stanton (with his pinkerton’s and devious intel people) organized Lincoln’s death (recall that Seward was targeted as well- both men stood in the way of Stanton and the Radicals). The Radicals enabled the oligarchs desire, in seeking punishing revenge on the South along with their rather notable seizure of personal property without right of title. Gen. Benjamin Butler comes to mind among others. Lincoln’s ideas was to unite the South back into the Union— nothing of the sort of Reconstruction which Stanton enabled, and resistance to which President Andrew Johnson was impeached and almost convicted (Johnson being a Southerner). Deo Vindice.
Never heard that MAGIC-internment coverup theory before. Fascinating. Similar to why Churchill didn’t bomb the death camp railroads.
TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:
America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.
We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.
We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.
Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.
You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.
EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.
The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.
Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.
A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.
Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.
Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.
EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
Source: Harry S. Truman Library, Miscellaneous historical document file, no. 258.
Yes, there will be plenty of judgement to go around.
“Similar to why Churchill didnt bomb the death camp railroads.”
I don’t know that one. I had assumed it wasn’t done for any number of reasons.
A rail line can quickly be rebuilt. Like overnight. This isn’t high technology.
Bombs in that era weren’t all that accurate and you were likely to hit the camps if you bombed near them. That’s why you dropped a lot of bombs in order to hit your primary.
Bombers were assigned to targets that would hasten the end of the war. Hitting the railways to the death camps would have been a feel good exercise that accomplished little.
Anyway I’ll be curious to learn the Churchill story.
The suspicion of Stanton goes right back to the day of Lincoln’s assassination as I recall.
Your other points are interesting as well. Lincoln wasn’t one of the Radical Republicans and they could well have decided he was in their way.
Thaddeus Stevens for one had been accused of having killed a pregnant black woman in Gettysburg around 1830- what would yet another murder be? Especially one that pushed him closer to the reins of power.
I don’t think the effect of the bombing of railroads would have been as trivial as you make it out to be, especially since the bombing of Germany was incessant and could be repeated at will. In addition, steel was precious to Germany and their industrial infrastructure was being smashed, so even repairs would have been seriously problematic.
As for Churchill, what I read was that much of the death camp information was confirmed through coded messages decrypted by ENIGMA. So if they acted on it, the fear was Germany would respond by shifting to another code system entirely. Not letting on that ENIGMA existed through Allied actions was huge part of using it effectively.
That’s interesting about Enigma, a very similar story to Magic.
Rail lines weren’t all that tough to repair. Bomb craters got filled with gravel. Damaged rail was heated and straightened or rail borrowed from a less traveled line. And if the Germans had decided not to repair the rails the inmates would simply have starved and new arrivals made to walk any breaks in the line.
When the Germans learned that we would make repeated strikes at a target they would move flak 88 guns in to greet the bombers. I’m sure they would have done the same around the camps. You might surprise them once but not many times afterwards.
Yeah, Civil Rights Act, duh...
Long day, LOL
“...Before we dropped the bomb we had total mastery of the sea around Japan, and the air above Japan. ...”
False.
By August Allied naval forces were not opposed by the Imperial Japanese Navy (submarines excepted) in their actions south and east of the Home Islands. They still drew hostile fire when they came within range of the coasts.
Allied submarines had sortied into the Sea of Japan and waters north and west of the Home Islands in small numbers and for brief periods. No Allied surface vessels had yet ventured there. And no land air bases existed, close enough to allow Allied air power to go there.
Air superiority had not yet been established over the home Islands. USAAF’s B-29s struck targets pretty much at will, succeeding in getting in and coming back out only because of their high speed and high altitude cruise capabilities; they sustained daily losses, right to the end of hostilities. Losses were minimized only because massed B-29 raids were conducted almost exclusively at night - no Japanese night air intercept capability - and Japanese air defenses rarely attacked small bomber formations in daylight.
Despite the taking of Iwo Jima and Okinawa, the Home Islands still lay at extreme range for Allied fighters. USN carrier air capabilities were too small, and possessed of such short range capabilities, that they were of no help. Too, coordination between USN and USAAF forces was poor, in some cases on purpose.
and a very good thing the bombs were dropped or else your father would have most likely been assigned to invade Japans mainland.
Estimates are that would have cost at least a half million American soldiers.
We did not start the war, Japan did by attacking Pearl Harbor.
They did unspeakable attrocities against us, China, Korea,and nearly every other nation in southeast asia.
Hell with em.
He was already on Okinawa, which is now considered the 47th Prefecture of Japan, so yeah, almost certainly he would’ve been in the invasion.
There was also Operation Unthinkable:
Operation Unthinkable was a code name of two related plans of a conflict between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. Both were ordered by British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in 1945 and developed by the British Armed Forces’ Joint Planning Staff at the end of World War II in Europe.
The first of the two assumed a surprise attack on the Soviet forces stationed in Germany in order to “impose the will of the Western Allies” on the Soviets and force Joseph Stalin to honour the agreements in regards to the future of Central Europe.[citation needed] When the odds were judged “fanciful”, the original plan was abandoned. The code name was used instead for a defensive scenario, in which the British were to defend against a Soviet drive towards the North Sea and the Atlantic following the withdrawal of the American forces from the continent.
The study became the first Cold War-era contingency plan for war with the Soviet Union.[2] Both plans were highly secret at the time of their creation and it was not until 1998 that they were made public.[3]...
The Chiefs of Staff were concerned that given the enormous size of Soviet forces deployed in Europe at the end of the war, and the perception that the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was unreliable, there existed a Soviet threat to Western Europe. The Soviet numerical superiority was roughly 4:1 in men and 2:1 in tanks at the end of hostilities in Europe.[1] The Soviet Union had yet to launch its attack on Japanese forces, and so one assumption in the report was that the Soviet Union would instead ally with Japan if the Western Allies commenced hostilities.
The hypothetical date for the start of the Allied invasion of Soviet-held Europe was scheduled for 1 July 1945.[1] The plan assumed a surprise attack by up to 47 British and American divisions in the area of Dresden, in the middle of Soviet lines.[1] This represented almost half of the roughly 100 divisions (approximately 2.5 million men) available to the British, American and Canadian headquarters at that time.[3]
The plan was taken by the British Chiefs of Staff Committee as militarily unfeasible due to a three-to-one superiority of Soviet land forces in Europe and the Middle East, where the conflict was projected to take place. The majority of any offensive operation would have been undertaken by American and British forces, as well as Polish forces and up to 100,000 German Wehrmacht soldiers. Any quick success would be due to surprise alone. If a quick success could not be obtained before the onset of winter, the assessment was that the Allies would be committed to a protracted total war. In the report of 22 May 1945, an offensive operation was deemed “hazardous”.
In response to an instruction by Churchill of 10 June 1945, a follow-up report was written concerning “what measures would be required to ensure the security of the British Isles in the event of war with Russia in the near future”.[5] United States forces were relocating to the Pacific for a planned invasion of Japan, and Churchill was concerned that this reduction in supporting forces would leave the Soviets in a strong position to take offensive action in Western Europe. The report concluded that if the United States focused on the Pacific Theatre, Great Britain’s odds “would become fanciful.”[6]
The Joint Planning Staff rejected Churchill’s notion of retaining bridgeheads on the continent as having no operational advantage. It was envisaged that Britain would use its air force and navy to resist, although a threat from mass rocket attack was anticipated, with no means of resistance except for strategic bombing.
Subsequent discussions
By 1946 tensions and conflicts were developing between Allied-occupied and Soviet-occupied areas of Europe. These were seen as being potential triggers for a wider conflict. One such area was the Julian March (which was applied to an area of southeastern Europe, today split among Croatia, Slovenia, and Italy), and on 30 August 1946 informal discussions took place between the British and US Chiefs of Staff concerning how such a conflict could develop and the best strategy for conducting a European war.[7] Again the issue of retaining a bridgehead on the continent was discussed, with Dwight D. Eisenhower preferring a withdrawal to the Low Countries, rather than Italy, for their proximity to the United Kingdom. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable
Indeed. Talk about "cruel and unusual punishment."
Now the threat under demonic liberalism is to withhold aid unless a country agrees to support abortion and homosexuality, etc., thus essentially forcing a country to commit eventual suicide.
In hindsight I agree, but at the time we were glad the soviets and Nazis were bleeding each other. Meant fewer of our troops would have to fight and die.
True, but short term gain, long term loss.
Also, while not that advanced, you had the Japanese nuclear weapon program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapon_program
February 12th, 2015 / by Barbara Johnson
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/georgia-amateur-divers-find-long-lost-nuclear-warhead/
Savannah, GA
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