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On this date in 1943

Posted on 12/26/2017 4:36:03 AM PST by Bull Snipe

HMS Duke of York and her escorts sink the German Battleship Scharnhorst of the Northern tip of Norway. Royal Navy destroyers rescued 36 of the Scharnhorst's crew. That evening Admiral Frazier stated to the officers of Duke of York and his staff; "I hope that if any of you are ever called upon to lead a ship into action against an opponent many times superior, you will command your ship as gallantly as Scharnhorst was commanded today."


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: germany; scharnhorst; unitedkingdom

1 posted on 12/26/2017 4:36:03 AM PST by Bull Snipe
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To: Bull Snipe

Battleship or battlecruiser?


2 posted on 12/26/2017 5:14:18 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Battleship. The Germans referred to her as Schlachtshiff (battleship in German). American and Brit naval intelligence always listed her as a battleship.


3 posted on 12/26/2017 5:25:50 AM PST by Bull Snipe
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To: ealgeone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst

Scharnhorst was a German capital ship, alternatively described as a battleship and battlecruiser, of Nazi Germany’s Kriegsmarine.

Armament:

9 × 28 cm/54.5 (11 inch) SK C/34
12 × 15 cm/55 (5.9”) SK C/28
14 × 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK C/33
16 × 3.7 cm (1.5 in) SK C/30
10 (later 16) × 2 cm (0.79 in) C/30 or C/38
6 × 533 mm torpedo tubes

Armor:
Belt: 350 mm (13.8 in)
Deck: 50 mm (2.0 in)
Turrets: 200 to 360 mm (7.9 to 14.2 in)
Conning tower: 350 mm[4]


4 posted on 12/26/2017 5:51:22 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Psephomancers for Hillary!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Main guns are on the lower end for a battleship of those times considering the main guns of the following classes:

KGV class had 14"

Iowa 16"

Bismark 15"

Yamato" 18.1"

Sounds more like a battlecruiser.

5 posted on 12/26/2017 6:15:17 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

The 11” guns fall between a US battleship (14-16) and cruiser (6-8). I believe that they were sometimes called pocket battleships. Battlecruiser does seem to capture it, somewhere between battleship and cruiser, but the term was originally applied to a class of fast ships with big guns (~12-14”) but lightly armored that were intended to run down and destroy smaller, more lightly armed ships by shelling from beyond their enemies’ range.


6 posted on 12/26/2017 6:39:24 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Psephomancers for Hillary!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau came after the Pocket Battleships Graf Spee, Deutschland, and Admiral Scheer.

They were closer to true battleships, but undergunned.


7 posted on 12/26/2017 7:42:37 AM PST by GreenLanternCorps (Hi! I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts! (TM) Ask about franchise opportunities in your area.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Battleship design usually involved some tradeoffs among four competing factors; speed, range, survivability and artillery. In the Panzerschiff series (what we called pocket battleships) the Germans sought long range for commerce raiding, plus enough firepower to defeat their likely opponents: Royal Navy cruisers. So they were fairly lightly armored. They were never intended to stand in a battle line against British battleships. The one time such a ship had an engagement in the circumstances it was intended, was the Battle of the River Plate where Graf Spee fought three British cruisers. The Spee had the tactical advantage, but was too far from any base to deal with the damage she suffered.

The next ships, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, were more of a compromise. They were also intended for long-range commerce raiding, but not as long as the pocket battleships, and were also intended to be able to withstand a pounding if they faced British battleships. Thus, they had high marks for speed, range and survivability. The pounding Scharnhorst took at the North Cape was proof of her survivability. But they sacrificed artillery by only having 11 inch guns. There were plans to upgrade the ships to 15” guns, but it never happened.

The last German battleships, Bismarck and Tirpitz, were essentially improvements over the World War 1 Bayern class, but had good attributes in all four areas.

The epitome of battleship design was the American Iowa class. Despite the armor and armament of the Japanese Yamato, the Iowas had better speed, maneuverability, rate of fire and “sea-keeping,” which made them more stable gun platforms, and therefore provided more accurate fire. American firecontrol was also generally better than the Japanese. In a matchup between two Iowas and the two Yamatos, the odds were not so lopsided in favor of the Japanese, although there is always the chance of the “lucky hit” for either side.


8 posted on 12/26/2017 9:12:18 AM PST by henkster
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