Posted on 05/28/2018 11:41:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
The modern myth of the disappearance of the Ninth Legion north of Hadrian's Wall was popularlized (not sure if she invented it) by Rosemary Sutcliffe, in her teen-level historical novel, "Eagle of the Ninth". The Romans never finished up in Caledonia because there wasn't much worth having there, and as it turned out, much more pressing needs arose elsewhere in the Empire. As it stands, the Romans were in what is now Scotland centuries before the Scots got there. The Scots cowered in fear in what is now Ireland, not daring to set foot in Caledonia until after the Romans left Britain.
The Varian diaaster (loss of 17th, 18th, and 19th) was an actual event at least, its effect has generally been grossly exaggerated. Making anachronisitic nationalist heroes out of people who were later themselves wiped out, overwhelmed, absorbed, and/or basically replaced by the ancestors of the jokers who dream up these heroes is, at best, ironic. It's found also among the descendants of the Anglo-Saxons who get all misty about King Arthur.
In Britain, Boudicca led her entire tribe and some allies on a genocidal mass-murder spree, and then into an abatoir consisting of a well-led legion and a half of Roman troops wedged into a spot between a river and an impenetrable thicket, chosen by their commander. I suspect that there's a decent supply of testable DNA in a giant surviving pile of teeth and bones, if anyone cared to look for the location of the probably bonfire where the Romans cremated the 70,000 or so dead Iceni et al. Might be interesting to see if there are any living descendants.
“Quintus Varus, bring back my legions....”
Augustus was reported to have roamed the palace at night crying out.....
“Lieutenant, where the hell are we? I thought you knew how to use a map and compass!”
Tthanks... I did like the movie about the eagle of the ninth...
Thanks for the info. Fascinating. The most intriguing part was the last sentence, about finding descendants of any of the legionnaires, or the aristocracy at time for that matter. Is there even any DNA evidence that can be used, I wonder.
Your work here is amazing, thank you. Keep it up!
It is really irrelevant that the Romans did not permanently conquer the area east of the Rhine. Of course there would still be commercial and diplomatic contacts. Plenty of money to be made for both sides.
As it stands, the Romans were in what is now Scotland centuries before the Scots got there. The Scots cowered in fear in what is now Ireland, not daring to set foot in Caledonia until after the Romans left Britain.
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LOL — I take it you’re a fan of the Roman Empire.
I think the Scotti were just another Irish tribe in Roman times.
“It’s amazing how far the reach of the Roman Empire extended. There are stories of Chinese armies using Roman formations (having been trained by captured Roman soldiers).”
It has been postulated that Romans captured by the Persians were used to garrison/patrol the Persian eastern frontier.
That’s what I’m thinking. Later, Eastern Roman Empire. The Danube might have been the official border, but punitive raids against the local tribes might have happened. But if the area were even temporarily a Roman province there would have been record of it.
Is the site near a major river ?
Roman trade networks extended well outside pf Roman territory
A diplomatic mission perhaps ?
I made a factual statement, if that's fandom, I guess I'm a fan. I've got Scottish ancestry (also Scandinavian, as the Vikings swarmed all the British isles, including the outer islands -- again before the Scots got there), and as the old joke goes, a Scot is locked in a lifelong struggle with the sworn enemy, other Scots. :^) Some nitwit always brings up how the completely absent Scots did this or that and always beat the Romans, and it's total rubbish. I wanted to get the jump on 'em, and of course needle their tiny little etc.
Thanks for the kind remarks!
My last sentence referred to the incinerated remains of the dead followers of Boudicca. Roman remains could very well have been found within months or years, when the Romans rebuilt the towns Boudicca and her cutthroats had destroyed. The Romans stayed in Britian for 400 years, and it was a favorite place to pick up an estate on which to retire. Over the past year or so I've been watching old Time Team episodes on YouTube, and they dug a lot of Roman sites, most of which were previously little- or unknown. At one site the basic layout was thought to be understood, but they found two more bridges over the same river and the rerouting of the main road to bypass what had become the growing settlement. Today, it's a rural area.
The rest of the series of books were good too, at least I thought so in high school. Mary Stewart's series on Merlin (Arthur/Ambrosius/Uther/etc) was also a favorite back at that time of my life.
They really could have used the guys from Stripes along with that armored vehicle.
It is a possibility. It’s also not unlikely that the Persians/Parthians used the phalanx as a consequence of having been influenced by (and for a long while ruled by) Macedonians and Greeks — in which case they could have been survivors of or deserters from a Parthian (or Seleucid et al) defeat vs the Chinese.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3658793/posts?page=16#16
The Romans didn't permananetly conquer anything, as their Empire finally ceased to exist -- and it only endured eighteen and a half centuries, from the Roman conquest of Ostia to the fall of Constantinople. They had camps and colonies in areas which often are not considered part of the Roman Empire. The commercial reach was enormous. Even in what is now Finland the iron industry owed its start to trade with Rome.
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