Posted on 06/15/2018 7:14:01 AM PDT by Simon Green
The P-51 should be on the best of list in place of the Me-262, which was an extraordinary aircraft but with disabling faults: inadequate fuel, no air brakes, and with engines prone to flameouts and cursed by minimal service life. As it was, P-51s and P-47s shut down the Me-262 threat by attacking them when they were on take-off or landing.
Meanwhile, for lack of serviceable engines, Me-262 hulls accumulated uselessly at German airfields and depots. The high-temperature alloys and technicians desperately needed for Me-262 engines were instead devoted to the V-2 program.
The most likely “what if” scenario I read indicated if enough ME262 fighters were deployed to make a difference the response would be a) swarms of P51s on each ME262 like we did Shermans on Tigers and b) a mushroom cloud over a German city. War still ends the same way just take a bit longer.
The Brits and French wanted the P-38 asap, and the superchargers were not available when delivered to the Brits (France had fallen and its order went to England). The a/c performed poorly without it, earning the bad rep.
It was eventually used for photorecon, given the room after removing the weapon cluster.
But yes, overall, the combat deployments were fairly low in Europe. Throw in the 2x maintenance and fuel requirements, and availability of other a/c... it didn't bring anything better to the table in Europe.
I know the list is for fighter planes but Airwolf was pretty badass.
The BE-12 would definitely qualify as a “worst.” The BE2 was far too stable to work a fighter.
in April 1943 while the 8th AF brass were sending unescorted flights of bombers over Europe, P-38s in the Pacific flew over 400 miles one-way to intercept and shoot down the plane carrying Admiral Yamamoto. The air distance between London and Berlin is 580 miles.
By 1944, P-38s in the Pacific were flying 1,000 miles, fighting 15 minutes and returning 1,000 miles to base with fuel to spare. Remember, the distance from London to Berlin is 580 miles.
The 38 actually got near the sound barrier in its dives and pilots had real problems with it till they fixed that. Besides that, it was a plane designed by the best.
Compressibility was a problem that would be experienced by all aircraft capable of hitting the sound barrier. The P-38 just happened to be the first American aircraft capable of diving fast enough to experience compressibility. Because no one yet understood the phenomenon, the P-38 got a bad reputation for poor dive characteristics until newer American aircraft began experiencing the same problems in power dives.
I think the main problem with the P-38 from a pilot's standpoint is that it was too complicated to operate in combat. When bounced, a pilot had a longer checklist of things to be done to prepare for combat versus what had to be done in a single engine fighter. This is why I say the P-51 was the best allied fighter in the hands of the average allied pilot.
In 1944-46 I saw hundreds of Corsairs roll out the Stratford factory plant doors and take off. Even then, as a kid, I knew I would never forget the roar of a F4U, my No. 1.
My father was chief electrical inspector at Chance Vought.
Fokker DVII over the Spad. It was actually included in the Treaty of Versailles that the Germans had to turn them all over to the Allies.
Me-262 caused a huge impact despite the few numbers involved. Fighters circled their airbases with heavy losses to AA. We even brought over P-80 jet prototypes to Europe to help morale.
MiG 21 was/is a dog, overrated.
F-15 definitely for #1, over 100 kills and not 1 loss in air to air combat.
B.E.2 wasn’t a fighter.
Lagg-3 was almost entirely built of wood including it’s wing spars which would shatter under German aircraft cannon fighter. So was its successor the La-5 which had better performance.
Brewster Buffalo wasn’t much worse in performance than other American fighters of the time. It was ugly though and had inexperienced pilots against Japanese that had more combat hours than Americans had flying hours.
Not sure where the Century Series hate comes from, there were much worse in the Cold War era.
MiG-23 was a dog but by no means the absolute worst fighter ever.
I’d give that to the ME-163 rocket fighter that probably killed more of its own pilots than that of the American bombers it was supposed to intercept.
http://www.historynet.com/p-38-flunked-europe.htm
Good article about why the P-38 flunked in Europe.
I think that is Major Dick Bong. He flew in the Pacific Theater and scored 40 victories.
P-39 wasn't used for ground attack by the Soviets.
They actually liked it because it was the only Lend Lease fighter that had it's armament in the nose (37 or 20mm cannon and 2 .50 machine guns) .30 wing guns were typically removed.
Soviet crews actually loathed the Spitfire, oddly enough because of it's wing mounted guns.
I’ll bet that a Brewster Buffalo (on the worst list) will always win a dogfight with a Spad XIII (on the best list).
Sure is! They have bridge named after him up here that spans from Duluth to Superior, Wisconsin.
My kids always laughed when I pointed out the “Bong bridge”.
The P-38's more complicated logistics requiring larger ground crews and spare parts was definitely a strike against it. However, those citing poor air performance over Europe must explain why that was the plane's fault when it had such a stellar air performance record in the Pacific including cold weather flying over the Northern Pacific from bases in Alaska and the Aleutians.
When discussing which plane was best, a crucial point often left out by P-38 detractors is that initial squadrons of P-38s send to Europe for bomber escort duty were flown by inexperienced pilots who had to tangle with Germany's best combat pilots. The P-51 came along after the cream of Germany's best fighter pilots were dead.
Vought F4U Corsair
Lockheed P-38 Lightning
Correct. And even if the daylight bomber offensive against Germany had to be suspended due to a counter-factual successful deployment of the Me-262 in, say, mid-1943, British night bombing would have continued. American bombers would have been shifted to peripheral targets and then to immediate support of D-Day and the ensuing drive into Germany. I am a little surprised that as far as I know, no one has produced a book or professional monograph detailing plans to use the A-bomb on Germany. Surely though, Berlin and other cities would have been the first to be A-bombed if the war in Europe had lasted long enough.
262 would have forced 8th AF into joing
the RAF in night bombing, but daylight bombing in prep for DDay would have continued as 262 had poor combat radius and Germans would not have based them outside Germany at bases easily reached by 47s and Typhoons and while 17s and 24s were sitting ducks I am sure P51 pilots would have devised tactics to deal with jet performance much the way Jimmy Thach dealt with the Zero. So I don’t believe the 262 appearing in Dec 43 or Jan 44 would have altered the outcome much
Thanks. A person reading my posts 67 and 75 might reasonably think I had previously read the article you posted the link to but I had not. I agree the P-38 was too complicated for the average trained pilot of 1943 who would go on to join entirely new squadrons of similarly trained pilots and ground crews in Europe.
German radar would vector in German pilots against inexperienced P-38 crews that were closely escorting B-17's.
They'd get bounced and didn't have the seconds it took to get ready for combat.
German pilots even commented about P-38's not taking evasive action, the pilots were too busy trying to turn knobs and switches to ready for combat when they were shot down.
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