We Didn't Win The War (Peter Hitchens Reflects on World War II)

The Daily Mail ^ | September 8, 2018 | Peter hitchens

[cartan]

What about Pearl Harbor?

[Redleg Duke]

Another Californian, here, I see.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"And our absorption into the EU – which is the continuation of Germany by other means – is not the fate of a dominant victor nation."

No truer words were ever spoken. Htiler's true goal was Germany hegemony on the Continent. This has been the German goal since the modern state was created out of the German confederation in 1871. The true war they should have fought would have been helping France in 1870. War is just conducting politics by another means. Germany has now achieved that goal thorugh the EU. For Britain, they should continue on with Brexit or accede to Germany hegemony. There is no third option. They have to think of the long game, it's hard now but necessary for their country.

[Real Cynic No More]

Peter Hitchens is talking about Britain not winning the war, as if he is resentful of the British empire not being able to go it alone. Yes, Britain did win the war, but did so with the help of its allies. Hitchens is actually resentful of the loss of the British empire ruling over the rest of the world, refusing to recognize, even acknowledge, that its policies of draining resources, subjugating citizens, its means of colonialism by placing wealthy “plantation-like” chieftains in charge with lityle accountability, was doomed to ultimate failure. If he longs for winning that war, he’s right. The American experiment proved that the people will rise up and throw off their shackles once they learn it can be done.

[OddLane]

How is he being smeared?

This is an excerpt from his new book.

[OddLane]

He addresses this point in the piece.

[dfwgator]

Adolf Hitler declared war on us on December 11, 1941

He did it, thinking in return the Japs would help him against the Russkies.

Stupid Hitler.

[dfwgator]

Britain needed Brexit in 1914. Germany was no threat to the British Empire. If France fell, so be it.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Britain needed Brexit in 1914. Germany was no threat to the British Empire. If France fell, so be it."

There was no EU in 1914, or rather the EU of 1914 was the German empire. Where did the German Empire start? In 1871 after the German confederate states all united to fight the French. It's not a question of France falling, but preventing the creation of the German empire to begin with. Before that, they were just a loose confederation of principalities, each with their own King and government. The war was a Prussian plan to unite into one country, which is a little ironic since the Prussia of 1871 does not exist anymore. It's a part of poland and all the Prussians forced to move west into the modern post WWII Germany.

[Ouderkirk]

Read the whole article...It’s very interesting.

He’s not discussing the Japanese side of it. Simply examining the position of the Brits in a different light than what we have all been taught about WW2.

WW2 has its roots in many things, which are partly WW1, and more likely alliances and goals which we will never know much about. As he points out, many things are known to professional historians, not much of it is actively discussed or taught.

[jim_trent]

He says that Chamberlain rearmed England. Wrong. Chamberlain went along with what others insisted on. He did not originate the rearming and did not support it. He only went along because he knew he would lose if he opposed it too strongly.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

And you apparently did not pay attention to what I was responding to.

heights -The War we create to get into Europe. that “Pearl Harbor?”.

Or are you now going to claim that heights is maybe not American and was referring to the British.

Perhaps reading comprehension and logic is not your strong suit.

[dfwgator]

So it seems to me the French just couldn’t handle the fact that somebody else had moved into the neighborhood, and they dragged the British into it.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"So it seems to me the French just couldn’t handle the fact that somebody else had moved into the neighborhood, and they dragged the British into it."

If we are talking about the 1870 Franco/Prussian war the UK did not get involved. That's what I was getting at, the war they should have fought was getting in the 1870 war to neutralize the birth of the German nation in it's infancy. I know this is massive Monday morning quarterbacking, but if the German Empire/nation would have stayed just a bunch of Germanic principalities in a loose confederation (Bismark's grand design) think how that changes history. No Germanic nation, no Germanic hegemony. Isn't that what the start of the two world wars and the current EU is about? German Hegemony of Europe? The Brexit is about the UK's rejection of that.

[dfwgator]

As opposed to the French hegemony of before?

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"As opposed to the French hegemony of before?"

After a few massive wars (7 years war, Napoleonic wars) that seemed to be working out by 1870 for the UK.... :-)

[dfwgator]

Adolf Hitler declared war on us on December 11, 1941. We didn’t declare war on him.

It would only have been a matter of time. Since Britain also declared war on Japan, the US had carte blanche to supply Britain with whatever they wanted, inevitably a US Ship was going to fall victim to a U-Boat, giving us the Casus Belli to declare war on Germany.

[dfwgator]

But I could understand the German side of the argument.

“Why should Britain and France have their empires and not us?”

[BlueLancer]

...inevitably a US Ship was going to fall victim to a U-Boat, giving us the Casus Belli to declare war on Germany.

The USS Reuben James was sunk by a German U-boat in October of 1941 ... no declaration of war resulted.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

I guess I would say if you look at what was going on in 1870, the Germans were happy with the way things were. A confederation of principalities that only got together in national emergencies such as war. Many historians believe that Bismark manufactured the war to create the German empire. I know I talked about Monday morning quarterbacking, but I believe at the time this was something countries at the time fretted over (German unification).

I’m really not saying that the Germans are wrong, I guess why I originally brought this up is because two world wars were about settling this issue and they have basically achieved this through the creation of the EU (German Hegemony of Europe) all without an army. In a word, brilliant!! On top of that, they have basically contracted out their countries protection to us!

I’m saying that unless Britain wants to be subsumed by German hegemony, they should stick with their Brexit plan. It’s going to be difficult, but in the long run they will be out from under the yoke of Berlin and Brussels and be better off for it.