Posted on 12/27/2018 11:20:09 AM PST by RoosterRedux
In the article, it is argued that the origin of Watchers derives from the Mesopotamian mythology of the antediluvian sages (apkallus). More precisely, it is proposed that the mythology of Watchers and their sons the giants derived from inverted versions of various Mesopotamian myths and beliefs about apkallus. On some layers of Mesopotamian mythology and ritual practices, the sages were already regarded as dangerous and potentially malicious creatures, upon which the Jewish authors could build their parody. Among other associations, the apkallus had strong ties to Mesopotamian demonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witch-craft. This shows that the wickedness of antediluvian teachers of humankind in Jewish sources was not wholly an inversion of the Mesopotamian traditions by Jewish scholars, but was partly taken from already existing trends in Mesopotamian demonology.
Introduction
There was a broad tradition in the Babylonian scribal milieu that the seventh antediluvian figure, a king or a sage, ascended to heaven and received insights into divine wisdom. The seventh antediluvian king according to several lists was Enmeduranki, the king of Sippar, who distinguished himself with divine knowledge from the gods Adad and Shamash (see Lambert 1998). Biblical scholars generally agree that the religious-historical background of the figure of Enoch, the seventh antediluvian patriarch in Gen. 5.23-24 and subsequently the apocalyptic authority in Enochic literature, lies in the seventh Mesopotamian antediluvian king Enmeduranki. The following quotation of John J. Collins conveys the consensus view well:
The figure of Enoch is to some degree modelled on Enmeduranki, founder of the guild of barûs, or Babylonian diviners… Enoch is listed in Genesis as seventh in line from Adam. In the Sumerian King List, the seventh king is Enmeduranki or Enmeduranna. Sippar, the city ruled by this king, was a center of the cult of Shamash, the sun god. Enoch is associated with the solar calendar: his age is given as 365 years in Genesis and the Astronomical Book [contained in 1 Enoch] presupposes a calendar of 364 days. Enmeduranki was also the founder of a guild of diviners and a recipient of revelations… Evidently the biblical seventh man emulates the Mesopotamian seventh king. (Collins 1998: 26, 45-46)(Excerpt) Read more at researchgate.net(pdf)...
For those of you who enjoy academic discussions of Enoch and the Watchers and Mesopotamian and Ancient Jewish lore might enjoy this article.
It speaks of what some believe to be Enoch's counterpart in Mesopotamian lore and Mesopotamian lore tells how the giants were still present after the Flood.
Dr Michael Heiser is big on this stuff as well. He wrote a “novel” called Unseen Realm about the divine council, etc.
He’s all over the watchers, 1 Enoch and how it explains Genesis 6:1-4.
Meanwhile, still reading your OP...
Enoch was a Godly man whose story is told in scripture. Not some retelling of a Mesopotamian demon tale.
There is a lot of good information on this from a Christian scholar here:
http://drmsh.com/tag/mesopotamia/
There is nothing to fear from studying this stuff. It won't threaten your faith.
BTW, nowhere in this article is Enoch anything except what we believe him to be...a Godly man.
Have read all (I think) of Heiser’s books. He does good work.
I’m just getting started. I have a three hour round trip commute and have caught about 170 of his podcasts and some videos, but have not read all that much yet.
He really opened my eyes to a LOT of this stuff - and from a CHRISTIAN perspective.
There is nothing to fear from studying this stuff. It won’t threaten your faith.
Just as the invention of the printing press gave us the reformation, the invention of the internet and search engines is blowing up Christianity, but in a very good way. It is being purified. The layers of BS are being peeled back before our very eyes, revealing the core of our beliefs.
Have you read the Book of Enoch? Lots to learn about Enoch in the Pseudepigrapha.
Yet the book of Jude appears to refer to 1 Enoch as prophecy.
I have spoken to several who visibly blanched when I raised the issue of Gen. 6.
That said, a lot of the sources this author cites are from top divinity schools. The divinity schools seemed to encourage scholarship in ancient "evidence."
In my Bible study, I read commentary at the same to understand the context in which the Bible was written and I have learned so much that I never learned in Sunday school and in sermons.
It is fascinating.
And when you add in Heiser and people like Prof. James Kugel ("The Bible As It Was"), the Bible is the most exciting thing ever written.
If I were a youngster today, I would definitely major in Biblical archaeology or something similar.
I was running by some stuff (mostly CI vs ECT) with my pastor once and he was practically agreeing. I’ll never forget what he said about the whole discovery process regarding the deep knowledge of the history of scripture:
“Nobody gets out of seminary with their faith intact.”
It’s why I go to this church. We tried a few others when we moved to the bible belt. The amount of ignorant dogmatism is staggering. And if you even try to discuss this stuff with some people and pastors, they seem to want to put a pox on your house.
I agree!
I prefaced the class with this:
I went to the same AG church for 18 years and then had to leave. I came back 15 years later to visit and the same teacher was teaching the same class I attended (about 50 people in the class). The same people I knew back in the day were still attending, still raising their hands and making the same comments they did 15 years before.
Imagine going back to your old high school 15 years after your graduation and visiting your old math teacher and, when you open the door to the class you attended back in the day, half the class is the same people you graduated with, still attending the same class, relearning the same stuff year after year.
And that is what we do in church. I want to change that. There is so much more we can learn. It’s about time we got our toes wet in the MEAT.
After the class they all wanted my notes. I had put together a very elaborate PowerPoint with animations and heavy notes. I sent out in a group email the notes part and a bunch of links to my sources, including Heiser’s site.
We’ll see where it goes next week.
But you are absolutely right. It’s like when I was first saved in 1981. It’s very exciting.
Thanks. I’ll “watch” that one on my 90 minute drive home.
BTW, I have also been to plenty of churches were the message was just plain sleepy.
For the life of me I can't figure out how a pastor can take the most exciting story in the world and turn it into something dull.
If people were to hear the real Truth, they wouldn't be dozing off in the pews.
The challenge is this: You’re supposed to ask the question: How can today’s subject improve the lives/walk of the class?
So I had to come up with a reason they needed to know this stuff. The reason I used was to let them know that knowledge is power and the knowledge takes away their fear regarding stuff they consciously or unconsciously know they don’t really know. It’s time they learn it and stop fearing the unknown about the bible and its history.
You know how Heiser always talks about understanding what is in the head of the bible writers? Well, this analogy popped in my head in class and I shared it (the average age in the class is about 45 or 50): I said, imagine I said, “ZSA ZSA has done it again! What do you think she did?” One of the women sheepishly raised her hand and said, “get married?”
I said, yep!. And we know that because we lived in the day when she was famous, so that simple line communicates volumes to us. But what of someone 2,000 years from now that sees that sentence, and ONLY that one mention of Zsa Zsa in all writings? What will they make of it?
I then said, That is what Genesis 6:1-4 is. To us it means very little, but to the people of the day it speaks volumes. And if we want to know more about it, we can go to 1 Enoch. It gives us the gory details even though it’s not “Canonical”.
So much of the bible is just waiting to be discovered through this type of information. The bible was not written to us. It was written FOR us. To better understand it, we must understand what those TO whom it was written actually understood.
Have you read Gary Wayne’s book “The Genesis 6 Conspiracy?”
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