Brutal moment a New Jersey Transit police officer drags and punches an unreponsive man...

The Daily Mail UK ^ | 11 Mar 2019 | Snejana Farberov

[blueplum]

full Title: Brutal moment a New Jersey Transit police officer drags and punches an unreponsive man outside station

Police have launched an internal investigation after a cellphone video surfaced showing what appears to be one of their officers punching a man in the head and dragging him across the pavement...(snip)

Speaking to WPVI, the woman who recorded the footage said the cop continued berating and dragging the man across the concrete for another five minutes.

[dangus]

I’m not seeing any punches, and from what I can tell, the “unresponsive” man was actually using passive resistance. 90% bullsh!+.

[Openurmind]

He didn’t pick him up and drop him hard? He didn’t sucker punch him at the end? Granted... it wasn’t much of a punch and it probably didn’t hurt, but it was an unnecessary PUNCH and could have caused injury. In no way am I exaggerating the principles involved here, and whether the guy was actually hurt or not from the encounter is completely irrelevant.

[VietVet876]

I watched it, too. Not a lot to watch. The cop tells the critter to get up and the critter remains limp. The cop gets on his radio for a little bit and then tries to move the guy again. Still unresponsive, the cop drags the guy by his outer garment. No big deal. Not like the cop beat the snot out of him or anything.

[blueplum]

Well, the TA will be releasing the bodycam video any moment now, surely, along with their new guidebook that outlines faceplanting as a crowd control technique, right?

from the link embedded in the article. The newscaster describes the terminal as a makeshift homeless center around the 2 minute mark, so there are indigent there on a regular basis. The witness says the guy was against a wall:

“She says before the scuffle, she noticed the man sitting against a wall as she walked out of the Transit Center. She says her phone battery was low and it died after about a minute of recording.

“After my phone died it continued to happen. The berating. Probably another five minutes. Dragging him on the cement and dragging his face on the ground,” she said. “

The video does not show what happened leading up to the incident.

“I don’t know if anything occurred. I’m not speculating that anything did. I can only attest to what I saw. And what I saw wasn’t warranted,” said the woman.

https://6abc.com/video-allegedly-shows-nj-transit-officer-dragging-man/5181934/

[Openurmind]

He sure wasn’t performing a Sternal Rub to see if the guy was OK or not.

[Robert DeLong]

Did you see any response? I mean the video was not an epic movie but it lasted 30 seconds or more. I never saw him respond in any way shape or form to be quite honest. Even when the transit cop kinda sorta slammed him to the ground.

[blueplum]

How about we agree nobody deserves to be dragged and dropped on their face? For one to several minutes?

Covington is not comparable to this story - apples and oranges - Covington was a peaceful scene, the story 100% implied and the only one on record was the perp; there’s nothing implied about the violence shown and described by an unrelated third-party witness willing to go on record.

Cops in a civilized society do not drag someone to the curb like they’re trash. I don’t care if the guy was spitting like a llama at feeding time or saying, ‘your sister eats snails’. The guy either had a medical or mental issue - either of which require men in jackets with straps and a free ride to a head doctor - the cops function being to make sure the guy is strapped on the gurney. Whiplash and concussion is not an approved treatment method for either condition.

[fruser1]

So you have a trespasser refusing to leave and instead of arresting him on the spot, the cop tries to drag him away when the jerk lies on the ground.

I think the cop cut him a break.

Exaggerating police abuse in circumstances like this does nothing to prevent the real abuse.

[VanDeKoik]

“Covington is not comparable to this story - apples and oranges - Covington was a peaceful scene”

I dont care what the subject of either is. I dont have the complete tape of this like people didnt have it of that, and will wait until I do before I scream all hell.

[blueplum]

the station serves as a homeless refuge and is a public access facility. So define ‘trespassing’.

Nobody is exaggerating anything. The cop picked a human being up and dropped that human on his face and side with force more than once. Show me the reg for that. Beginning and end of story.

[yesthatjallen]

Affirmative Action has lowered the standards in many profession.

We used to use standardized tests to weed out people.

We can't do that anymore.

We can't check peoples' backgrounds.

We can't require tests for knowledge and physical fitness.

Tests were used to discriminate in the archaic meaning; to choose the highest standard as 'he only drives the best and most expensive cars. He has discriminating taste'.

The new meaning, 'to discriminate', is a hate crime.

[fireman15]

“In no way am I exaggerating the principles involved here.” “and whether the guy was actually hurt or not from the encounter is completely irrelevant.”

It is hard for me to take what you are trying to argue seriously. I have no idea what your actual situation is, but you speak like someone who has led a completely sheltered life. Have you ever been in or around a situation like this? I said that we would not have treated someone this way and would report others who did. In fact it was our department's policy to coddle them. And personally I did not mind that. My crews and I even did what we could to try and help down and out people sometimes to extremes that you would most likely make fun of. And we got to know who was good natured and harmless and who was just plain nasty. Who knows what the situation with this person was?

But I do understand the frustration of dealing with people like this day after day and how this type of incident developed. From the video it didn't look to me like the person laying on the ground probably did not receive injuries from the encounter, you play stupid games and sometimes you win stupid prizes. And in the real world whether someone got hurt or not makes a big difference. If the guy had some real injuries the follow up story would be about the transit cop getting fired and charges with a crime. If the cop wasn't black he would be fired immediately anyway.

[fireman15]

Did you see any response? I mean the video was not an epic movie but it lasted 30 seconds or more.

Yes I did see responses. Maybe that is my professional eye? The guy was obviously not unconscious. From this video I have no idea what his actual condition was. I can tell you that many of the people I worked with were much better at acting unresponsive than this guy. My buddy Cecil would also have foam running out of his mouth along with snot and green crap or at least boogers and dried snot around his nose. After some smart paramedic told him that unconscious people urinated on themselves, that was the first thing that he did to start his routine. Often he would go all the way and crap in his pants as well. And he always had poop smeared somewhere on himself. I am not sure that he even believed in using toilet paper. This kid is a serious piker by comparison.

But strangely enough Cecil was almost always kicked him out of the hospital or detox almost immediately, no matter how good his effort was. And he wasn't the only one. We would show up with some guys and the staff would just tell us to take him somewhere else. Some of them were so filthy they would end up shutting down the whole emergency room.

[21twelve]

I had to wait in the hallway at Harbor View for a wound - was in a gurney in the hallway waiting. Surrounded by junkies and medics. Then when the ambulances dropped off some folks from a big car crash and doctors and gurneys running down the hall and shouting orders it was just like on TV.

After it calmed down a bit the junkie behind me started screaming for some drugs to take care of the pain. Then she wanted to be unstrapped from the gurney.

The medic said something like “You know I can’t do that Helen - especially after you spit on me and tried to claw my eyes out last time. Now calm down or I’ll have to [I can’t recall now - maybe put a muzzle or something on her?]”

Several other medics sounded like they were on familiar terms with their junkie patients waiting in line.

[fireman15]

Depending on the station that you work at you get to know the regulars on a first name basis.

Playing possum is very common, but it is usually pretty easy to figure out. One of the easiest ways to tell if you have a faker is to just hold their hand above their face and then let it go. The “pros” will let their hand drop on their face, but it takes a little practice. The newbies will make their hand miss their face. There are a bunch of other tricks of the trade that people like to use, most paramedics can tell you a bunch of their favorites.

Going to the hospital these days is a major pain in the a$$ because they overrun with idiots. It got a lot worse after Obamacare kicked in. Now the deadbeats all feel completely entitled to everything for free all of the time.

[Osage Orange]

Ha!!..

I see what you did!!

[Openurmind]

First let me commend you for being patient with these scammers and being willing to turn in any professional who did something like this. As an emergency services provider this is part of your job, to serve the public no matter how stupid the interactions might get or how often. I understood that you personally and your crew would not have allowed this to happen on your watch. And it would be the right thing to do no matter what the others might say.

I was directing my judgement at this one officer directly, When we start saying as a society “oh.. he was wrong but only just a little bit wrong, not too serious, he didn’t hurt the guy much... It’s acceptable because he was having a bad day and was frustrated, the guy deserved it because he was a scammer anyways.” And the big one... “It’s acceptable because he’s a cop”. We are then allowing ourselves to be conditioned into slowly accepting more and more of it as “acceptable”. At what point do we finally see it as “too much” when ANY AT ALL is already too much and crossing a line?

There is a line that cannot be crossed no matter what the circumstances happen to be. It is the same with any occupation where human personalities interact. I have been working with the public and a-holes all my life and can’t count how many times I wanted to punch someone because I was “frustrated” with them. But it’s unacceptable in ANY form and ILLEGAL without the justification of self defense. You just can’t be rough with people because you are frustrated or having a bad day.

And I do have some experience with this and do not live a sheltered life. I have been working with the public all my life as a service provider and business owner. I was once homeless for a couple years and ran with these “scammers” for a bit and full well know the game and how they play the system and purposely “test” public servant professionals.

Both my father and my uncle are retired law enforcement. All three of my daughters and one son in law are in health care and have all worked emergency services and in large hospital emergency rooms. Now three of them work in an Alzheimer’s and mental illness center where they have to physically defend themselves in a patient passive manner all day long from residents who try to beat the hell out of them for just doing their job. They actually do get punched all the time and CANNOT physically defend themselves and retaliate.

So I do understand the system, and I do understand how frustrating it can get interacting with society and personalities. But there is a line that cannot be crossed no matter what the situation might be. And never should we start accepting this line to be crossed even “just a little bit” without a serious legitimate just cause. It is a bad road to go down especially from a professional who is trained and paid NOT TO DO THIS.

Public interactions too frustrating for you... get out of it... It’s your job to be patient with it no matter how often or how bad it might get until they actually do break a law. Tell you what... You would seriously want to smack the crap out of half my customers. But I just can’t cross that line under any circumstance without being able to prove self defense.

It is what it is... and it does indeed extremely test my own patience constantly. And public servants are bound by these very same legalities and constraints that everyone else is.

[fireman15]

After 25 years I took my first opportunity at an early retirement because I had had enough. My wife does historical displays and presentations mostly for military groups and we had been out at Fort Lewis the entire day that the party for all the people who had retired the year I left was being held. Even though we are not party people, we were heading home early enough that we decided to go ahead and stop by for the festivities and free food at the union hall.

It was good that we did because the mayor and city council and past mayors and other politicians were all there pandering for union support and a lot of my buddies and people that I knew were there also. When it was time for people to get their little retirement statue they were suppose to say a little something. Every one was getting up and thanking the mayor and the city council and the union, and the chiefs, and etc. etc. for their years on the department.

I got up and I said that I wanted to thank my wife for putting up with me for all of those years. And then I started telling the story of one of the old men we responded to who had collapsed in front of a local gas station. I told the people at the gas station that I would be back the next day for his car that he was living in so that it wouldn't be towed. I noticed on his ID that it was his birthday the next day, so my wife and I took him a cake in the hospital. The people at the hospital wanted our phone number.

He was kind of a mess so the hospital kept him for a few days. When it was time for him to go “home” they couldn't find any relatives so they called us and we went and got him and took him out to dinner and were going to take him back to his car. But at dinner we realized that he had some serious cognitive issues and was going to end up back in the same situation very quickly. So we took him home instead and tried to use our connections to get him placed in an old soldiers home where we knew the director.

And this story went on and on. And the ridiculous extent that we went to take care of this guy and fix his messed up car just had everyone laughing uncontrollably. They were pounding on the tables and rolling on the floor, because every time we thought we had everything worked out, something else would happen. My wife took care of him for weeks and he wanted to stay with us instead of going to the old soldiers home. And this wasn't the only time that she stepped up to the plate and took care of people that I met at work. So to hell with thanking the city council, the mayor, the chiefs and the union. I thanked my wife who has the biggest heart of anyone that I know and has changed me so much over the years.

All my friends knew that my story was completely accurate, that's why they thought it was so funny. But for months when we were doing events, politicians would come up to my wife or I and ask if the story was true. It and so many other situations were so ridiculous that they sound like a comedy routine... As do so many other interactions with people like Cecil Leadinghorse and his buddies. When reality is crazier than fantasy you just can't make this stuff up.

I thank you for your perspective, as someone who has been down on their luck, or outgrew being an irresponsible a-hole. There is nothing like real life experience to change your perspective. I agree with you that police officers should not treat people the way that we saw in this video. Actually, behavior along these lines typically has less to do with frustration and is more of a power thing that goes to the heads of some people. I was threatened with arrest for interfering with the police on some occasions when I was critical of the way that they were handling certain situations.

For the most part we get along very well, and the police often would hang out at fire stations during the day. But there is often friction between the police and firefighters because our missions are very different. The police are there largely to establish and maintain order and control not to help people. Firefighters are there to help people or save property. I don't think it is a secret that they are often feared and we are often loved by the public. Maybe you are from a small town or rural location where there is some cross over in roles. Was your dad kind of like Andy Taylor and you were like Opie? I have a great uncle who is a retired police officer and he is and always has been an extraordinary person, but he worked in a suburb outside of Detroit and he would be the first to tell you that things were a lot different there than in Detroit.

[fireman15]

One more funny thing about the people we had who hung around the train stations... Our city had a bit of a parking problem downtown. So they came up with the great idea to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for a light rail to take people from a parking garage a mile and a half away to downtown.

So when they finished building this giant boondoggle that has permanently disrupted traffic downtown... almost no one was willing to pay the money for the overpriced parking garage and the fare for the trams. To top it off developers started building more parking downtown further lessening the need for this idiotic project. It was far more convenient to park near the little shop you were going to and then leave. And the transients knew that the drivers of the cars actually parked in the garage were a mile or more away so it was open season. Every time we went responded to a call there was glass from broken car windows all over the place.

The transit authority started dropping the fare to attract more riders, but very few people wanted to put themselves in a situation with all of the aggressive pan handlers that hung around the stations. So they came up with a brilliant plan.

They made the tram completely free and instead of chasing away the panhandlers, derelicts and drug addicts they embraced them and let them ride around on these heated trams all day long. And they counted heads at every stop and called each of them a ride. So their ridership numbers went through the roof making the failure not look like a failure using their statistics. And watching a tram full of warm and comfortable freaky looking people go by every few minutes who would normally be on the streets bothering people … provided good entertainment for the people who actually work and park downtown.

The situation has evolved a little over the years, but I do still warn people not to take their kids on the trams no matter how good the publicity shots look.

See how happy all the young beautiful people look riding the trams. But how come the rest of the street looks like a ghost town in the background? Where did all the garbage and normal inhabitants disappear to? It is because they cleared the street and the sidewalks to take the pictures. It never actually looks like that ever. Not ever! The people you find at that stop typically used to look like zombies from one of those stupid apocalyptic shows or movies. It has improved somewhat over the years as more affluent people have moved in from Seattle to escape the high price of housing there.

[Openurmind]

I understand what you are getting at here. But in my years I have and still experience both worlds, rural and city. Yes Dad was like Andy Taylor, he was an elected constable and the only law enforcement in a rural community but his duties were not limited to rural. This rural community was along side the main east to west transportation artery in America I-40. So he was exposed to everything society could throw at an officer with his interactions when assisting state patrol officers. And quite often he was required to go cover someone on vacation Etc. in the nearest big city. So he was experienced with both worlds.

My Uncle was a state highway patrol officer who covered these same areas both rural and city along this major freeway. When he retired from the state he became marshal and did his time again and retired from that also. His duty as a marshal was all in the big city.

As for my own experience, when I hit hard times and was homeless it was in metro LA and then for awhile in Las Vegas. I have since lived in other major cities so I understand the metro culture well. I have several very good lifelong friends who are currently officers in Baltimore, Phoenix, and L.A. One of my other son in laws is currently a Maricopa County SO in Phoenix. So even though I am back in the rural demographics I still have my experiences and I am always up to speed on current events and metropolitan society and what public servants have to deal with there.

Now let me share something very important about your wife and yourself. Grandma and I, because of our very rural business location, We have also helped out so many people who were stuck and having hard times with compassion. We can’t even count how many thousands of labor hours and thousands of dollars we shared to help people get rolling again. We fed so many down and out folks and their children from out of our home/shop that my friends joked that we should put up a cross on the shop and call it a church. It did finally drive me to become a minister. :)

So I can tell you with confidence that all the compassion and patience you and your wife have shared throughout your life despite the scrutiny you had aimed at you will indeed come back to you a hundred fold Sir. Never once were you ever wrong for not “going with the flow”. It is a now a rare and righteous virtue I personally hold very highly. Thank you... :)