Joker is the most-nominated film at this year’s Oscars. It shouldn’t win Best Picture.

https://www.vox.com/ ^

[BuffaloJack]

Getting an Oscar nomination is not what it used to be.
Actors, producers, directors and anyone else can submit an Oscar nomination (and most of them do), and for the film they worked on.

[BuffaloJack]

“It’s an outstanding movie, though terribly depressing.”

I think the best film I ever watched (and the single most depressing) was “Grave of the Fireflies”. It was really really good and I never want to watch it again, a don’t want to go through that much sadness a second time.

[silent_jonny]

It was the most depressing film I have ever seen

I finally watched it a few days ago ...

Had to stop it about 45 minutes in just to get some air. It's so depressing that it's suffocating. Eventually I finished it, but I felt like I needed a shower afterwards.

Joaquin Phoenix's performance is phenomenal and he should win best actor. There aren't many other actors that can come close to what he did here--both emotionally and physically. There are parts when he has his shirt off that I wondered if he was human.

But the movie isn't great.

It starts down and pushes down until the end. Schindler's List is more fun to watch.

There are also loose-ends and logic gaps in the story that just don't make any sense.

Rent it first before buying it.

[rlmorel]

"...totally destroys the usual liberal notions of why there is violence in the world..."

I haven't seen the movie, read any reviews, or even read any discussions on it except this thread. That said, I will bet money that your statement encompasses the following:

Leftists and Liberals have the fundamental opinion that human beings and society are perfectable, and that any deviation from that "perfection" or utopia is due NOT to shortcomings in the individual themselves, but due to the evil effects that society has had on them. In their views, those evil effects are concentrated in the three general spheres: Poverty, Ignorance, and Disease (common acronym is PID) Leftists and Liberals feel that if these three areas can be addressed by their policies and programs by a smaller group of enlightened individuals, that those evil influences on people can be reduced or eliminated, crime and corruption will disappear, and society will achieve a utopia.

In short, Leftists and Liberals believe that evil does not innately exist, but is introduced by society.

Conversely, Conservatives feel that human beings are not only NOT perfectable, but that Utopia is not achievable. We believe that no matter how nicely some people are treated, how much money someone makes, or how much benefits and privileges may accrue to people, that they can still be evil in spite of those things. In short, we believe that evil innately exists. We believe that some people just ARE evil, and want to destroy and burn simply for the sake of destroying and burning. As a result, we believe the best deterrence to crime and corruption are laws and a legal system that punishes evil-doers in a consistent, reliable, and timely way. Even if we concede that legal systems are and have been imperfect, we are inclined to use them and try to improve them on an ongoing basis.

In short, Conservatives believe that evil exists, and that personal responsibility for committing evil acts is a fundamental premise. We accept that there are people out there who, no matter how much rehabilitation is applied, simply will not change them because for some people, that is their inherent nature.

Am I right in interpreting your statement in your post in the context that the Joker as just innately...evil...and he is?

[pepsionice]

If you go with story-value by itself, then Parasite wins. It’s about half-way through the movie, when you think you understand the story and where it’s going....then it throws the wildest script change into the middle of this, and you have no idea how the story may end.

[dfwgator]

Saw Parasite last week, it should win.

[Rummyfan]

I have seen only Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (loved it) and Ford vs Ferrari. I highly recommend FvF even if you're not into cars.

[silent_jonny]

Hard to believe the show would be live on air though, but that was necessary for the plot to advance. Also necessary for the plot to advance is that you would have to believe that in 1981 someone was videotaping an open mic night at a very small comedy club? Who would do that?

Exactly! Recording anything back then wasn't easy--or cheap. I don't know what a video camera cost back then, but one of those new-fangled VCRs would set you back a dollar or two.

And that's 1981 money! A video camera was probably even more expensive.

So this comedy club went to the expense and trouble of setting up a camera (imagine the miles of wires on the floor of the club leading to a tripod--waitresses and customers tripping over these in the dark) just to record some hack on open-mic night?

And then the owner of the club would have to deliver this tape to the Murray Franklin show, by mail or in person.

And once it got to the show, some poor assistant would have to screen the tape (among dozens or hundreds of other tapes) and find Arthur Fleck's routine amusing enough to bring to the attention of the show's producers.

The producers would have to sit down and watch it, and also find it amusing (and not excruciatingly painful, which it is) and decide how and when to use it.

This would take MONTHS.

But in the movie, it happens almost instantly.

[Terry L Smith]

Maybe if they make more movies where DeNiro gets shot, they may have something there!

[OIFVeteran]

I hated it. Probably because I grew up reading the comics and that was not the Joker. It was just some mentally ill man losing it. The joker is the clown prince of crime. He plans and executes elaborate criminal schemes, designs and creates deadly devices and chemicals.

The joker portrayed in that movie couldn’t plan a dinner date.

[moovova]

“...terribly depressing...”

I started watching it and stopped. I’ll probably eventually go back and watch the rest, but sheesh... I doubled up on the Xanax.

[GrandJediMasterYoda]

The Mr. Rogers movie with Tom Hanks was really really good but I guess it was too positive thus is must be ignored by the Oscars.

[KC_Conspirator]

I saw the reviews about how the woke crowd said the Joker was bad and not to watch it because it was too white or too Trump.

I watched it recently. How the HELL does one watch Joker and come about with that conclusion? You have to be stupid, hatefilled, or not right in the head to do that.

It was a very good movie.

[MikelTackNailer]

For me "re-watchability" usually separates the very good movies from the great ones. Like when I run across "Goodfellas" while channel scanning it sucks me in almost every time. Same goes for "The Deer Hunter", "The Outlaw Josey Wales" and the first Avengers movie. They had all aspects of their projects firing on all cylinders thanks to people loving what they're doing. That, and not throwing more money at something, separates the great films from the time-fillers.

"Joker" was compelling and well done but I wouldn't want to see it again. "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" was a beautiful Tarantino love letter to his own ego. Yet he made "Pulp Fiction" and "The Hateful Eight", each up there in the re-watchable category.

The pace of technology is soon making the movie theater a quaint relic of the past like rotary phones on a land line. If you love good movies go out and see one sometime during that week's discount day shortly before it's running gets pulled. Almost no one else is there, you get a choice position and today's seats are all plush recliners. Screw what Oscar likes...your tastes will always serve you better.

[big'ol_freeper]

I didn’t understand why the movie was even made, and noticed the media fawning over it, so I didn’t bother with it.

[Mathews]

I watched it, though sometimes I wish I hadn’t because it really got under my skin, it’s an inside take on an already mentally ill man and how he plunges into 100% insanity. It’s depressing, it’s illuminating (we find out where Joker’s laugh comes from) and it’s down right scary knowing there are folks out there right now, on medication to keep them balanced, who could very well turn after being off their meds for any amount of time. I think we saw a good example of that in Aurora, Colorado and Sandy Hook.

[hoagy62]

In all honesty, I haven’t seen ANY of the movies that have won Best Picture since “Lord of the Rings: Return of the King”.

I doubt I ever will. Most of the ones that win are way too ‘artsy-fartsy’ for me.

[x]

I’ve never felt that this movie had much to say

Probably not.

I don't think Silence of the Lambs should have won all those Oscars when it didn't have anything of importance to say about anything, except how much we love serial killers.

But it's also crummy when Oscar picks a picture with an "inspiring" message, or chooses one because it's "politically correct."

[jmaroneps37]

Who are these people you are talking about?