Posted on 07/10/2020 9:22:36 PM PDT by Pelham
Historic debate between James Baldwin v. William F. Buckley Jr. at Cambridge University on the question: "Is the American Dream at the expense of the American Negro?"
Will William F Buckley have his statue pulled down by Woke Conservatives who discover this debate?
Baldwin - Buckley Debate ping
Thanks for the thread!
bookmarked. thanks so much.
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The legacy of W.F. Buckley will outlive any statue of him by far. He’s one of the founders of modern conservatism IMO.
This debate could no more happen today at a university than the virtues of Judaism could have been debated at a German university in the late 1930’s.
If they’re woke they’re not conservatives.
I used to enjoy Buckley’s Firing Line as a teenager.
As a consequence of that plus a good memory I’m aware that some of what passes as conservatism today would have been political liberalism circa 1965. This is especially true with race and civil rights. Goldwater, Buckley and Reagan all opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Some of our woke conservative bretheren will be lumping them in with the Klan if they discover that.
That’s for sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States
Apparently we got up to 21% back in 1770. Free blacks represented 8 to 13% of the black population (Free black chart is a little over half way down the page). So about 2% of total population and that drops slave labor below 20%.
Then as immigration and population grew we dropped down until it hit 9.7% total black population in 1930, before it started slowly growing again reaching 12.6% in 2010.
Blacks certainly contributed to American growth with some hard back breaking work. But I don't think 10% to 20% of the population did most of the work and supported the other 80 to 90%.
“But I don’t think 10% to 20% of the population did most of the work and supported the other 80 to 90%.”
Eugene Genovese’s “Roll, Jordan, Roll” and “Time On The Cross” by Fogel & Engerman are said to be good studies of slave life in America. From what I recall reading, a lot, maybe most, slave holdings were small operations with the masters having to work as well. Plantations of course were an entirely different matter. Plantations like Monticello were small cities.
Slaves were expensive. In New Orleans historians point out that canals there were dug by Irish immigrants. Slaves were certainly capable of doing the work, but it was dangerous work and slave owners weren’t about to risk ‘their people’.
Another book that’s worth reading is “Weevils In The Wheat”, interviews of elderly former Virginia slaves conducted by black writers during the Depression.
Pelham,
Thanks for posting this. It’s 2:00 a.m.and I couldn’t quit watching it. BOTH Baldwin and Buckley are impressive here. Baldwin was terrific in speaking about oppression in a way BLM people could only wish they could. Buckley expressed the importance of traditional values and the rule of law in a way that needs repeating today. As someone said above, this debate could never happen today, but it should.
And then, we should move forward together.
I just watched “Hamilton” and was surprised at their fair treatment of his and his wife’s position on slavery
Recommend this remarkable Broadway play, which sums up Hamilton’s life artfully
That was before Buckley went the politically correct route and started to purge and attack “controversial” conservatives.
True
After Buckley was scourged for his candid remarks on Jews and Israel
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