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The Battle of Cannae - Rome's Darkest Day
history.com ^ | 10/2/2016 | Evan Andrews

Posted on 05/12/2021 8:20:53 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian

Republican Rome was pushed to the brink of collapse on August 2, 216 B.C., when the Carthaginian general Hannibal annihilated at least 50,000 of its legionaries at the Second Punic War’s Battle of Cannae.

(Excerpt) Read more at history.com ...


TOPICS: Education; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: 2ndpunicwar; ancientnavigation; battleofcannae; cannae; carthage; carthaginians; elissa; godsgraveglyphs; hannibal; militaryhistory; phoenicians; romanempire; rome; secondpunicwar; strategy; tyre
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One of the most instructive examples of military failure and hubris on one end and tactical brilliance on the other. This battle could have changed the course of Western Civilization. More important than the Spartans and the 300. If Hannibal continued on to the walls of Rome the path of Western Civilization would have been drastically changed.
1 posted on 05/12/2021 8:20:53 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian

When I was young, maybe 12 or so, I was fascinated by Hannibal and his amazing march across the Alps and his descent into Italy where he destroyed several Roman armies. As time went by, I began to see that the real remarkable story was that the Romans were able to survive those calamaties and eventually grind the Carthaginians down as they did all their foes.


2 posted on 05/12/2021 8:27:07 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte (11/3-11/4/2020 - The USA became a banana republic.)
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian

Yup. He won the battle”s” but lost the war.

He absolutely ran circles around the Romans and then quit.


3 posted on 05/12/2021 8:31:33 AM PDT by crz
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian
Although it didn't much change the course of history even though the Romans did get clobbered. So if the Romans had clobbered Hannibal instead, likely the same eventual historical result.

I've always thought that perhaps the Battle of the Milvian Bridge had huge future implications because one bit of eventual fallout was the Christianizing of the Empire. The other one that always strikes me as huge, though it was the Eastern Empire, was Manzikert. World might be a very different place if the Byzantines had won rather than the Turks. No subsequent civil war, etc..

4 posted on 05/12/2021 8:37:10 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian

I’ve known about Cannae for a long time. And, frankly, I’m not sure I trust the ancient historians.

On the one hand, in Greek hoplite warfare (I’ll get to Rome in a minute), things were like the opposite of a tug of war with a rope (two groups pulling away from each other, hoping to make the other team fall forward). Instead, two shield walls would crash together and push and push and push. Eventually, one shield wall would collapse and the men would fall apart and lose formation and then run and get speared in the back. It was all a question of who would break first.

Rome didn’t use hoplites, and didn’t depend on shield walls. But they weren’t dumb. At Cannae, the Carthaginians were greatly outnumbered by the Romans, yet the Carthaginians managed to surround the Romans, and squeeze them in the middle, pushing and pushing until the Romans had no where to go and just fell apart and were slaughtered.

That’s what they say. I think it would not have been difficult for the Romans to break out of the encirclement at one point or another and make the whole thing fall apart.

Maybe it happened just as they say — but history is full of lies. To read an ancient source and just accept it as the truth is, I think, a bad practice. The earliest source for this battle is Polybius (50 years after the battle) and most people think Polybius used a good bit of dramatic license. Livy wrote about it 200 years later (so how reliable can he be?).


5 posted on 05/12/2021 8:38:42 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("I see you did something -- why you so racist?")
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To: Sans-Culotte

For some reason Hannibal never marched on Rome. Nobody really knows why. Maybe he didn’t think he could take on the city but there was really nothing in his way. As his brother put it, (paraphrased) “Hannibal knows how to gain a victory, but not how to use it”

The Romans were stubborn and defeat was not in their vocabulary. You can thank Scipio (the younger) Africanus for saving Rome. The Senate decided to send an expeditionary force to Spain but no one would take the job. At 24 Scipio took the job and showed himself to be a brilliant tactician. Carthage couldn’t afford to lose their assets in Iberia so they wouldn’t resupply Hannibal so he had to send his brother Hasdribul to fight Scipio and the ruling oligarchs in Carthage cut off Hannibal. Hannibal is an enigma. One of the greatest generals in history driven by hate but not a strategic thinker. Are you familiar with the meeting of Hannibal and Scipio with Antiochus III. Fascinating story?


6 posted on 05/12/2021 8:41:34 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian (netstat -an | grep BS)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Absolutely. Constantine’s vision before the battle changed the course of the west for sure and Christianity itself. But in my own opinion, Constantine would have never existed if Hannibal had sacked Rome 600 years before the Goths sacked Rome.


7 posted on 05/12/2021 8:45:50 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian (netstat -an | grep BS)
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian

But Hannibal never took Rome...

and Rome destroyed Cathage....


8 posted on 05/12/2021 8:47:29 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: SunkenCiv

PING


9 posted on 05/12/2021 8:48:59 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: ClearCase_guy

The Romans eventually saw the weakness of the Phalanx and moved to the Maniple system. The Phalanx had one MAJOR flaw, slowness. If you could get around the flanks it was over. If you couldn’t flank them it was almost impossible to defeat. This flaw in the phalanx allowed the Romans to march through Macedonia and Greece and Asia Minor to the east directly after the Punic Wars. Totally agree with you about history and lies. This particular battle is pretty well documented though. The Romans were meticulous record keepers. But anything pre-dating the sack by the Gauls can only be taken as mythology. But you are fundamentally correct about historians. My next post will be about the Battle of the Teutoberg Forest and Arminius. One of the worst losses in Rome’s history. Supposedly left Octavian (Augustus Caesar) in shambles screaming “Varus! Give me back my legions”.


10 posted on 05/12/2021 8:53:29 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian (netstat -an | grep BS)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Absolutely. The question no one can answer is why Hannibal never marched on Rome. A question left to ponder forever. We will never know. There was absolutely nothing stopping him. He could have sacked Rome and kept them from ever raising another legion.


11 posted on 05/12/2021 8:55:14 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian (netstat -an | grep BS)
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian

You’re obviously correct about Hannibal and Rome. But it is tough to pick out a battle to explain why he never took Rome. Dertosa, maybe? Or perhaps Baecula. If Hannibal’s loser brother Hasdrubal had been able to win either battle, he could have reinforced his brother in Italy and things might have turned out differently.


12 posted on 05/12/2021 9:04:26 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: crz

“Yup. He won the battle”s” but lost the war.”

We’re relearning the same lesson in Iraq and Afghanistan


13 posted on 05/12/2021 9:05:55 AM PDT by aquila48 (o not let them make you care! Guilting you is how they control you. )
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To: ClearCase_guy

“Maybe it happened just as they say — but history is full of lies.”

History is written by the victors. Imagine what the history books would look like if the Germans had won.


14 posted on 05/12/2021 9:10:47 AM PDT by aquila48 (o not let them make you care! Guilting you is how they control you. )
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To: Tennessee Nana

Carthago delenda est!


15 posted on 05/12/2021 9:12:43 AM PDT by cld51860 (We’re doomed.)
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian; crz; Bruce Campbells Chin

Goldsworthy has a good modern look at this battle. Likewise
https://www.amazon.com/The-Ghosts-of-Cannae-audiobook/dp/B003Y55KOO/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=cannae&qid=1620835175&s=books&sr=1-2
“The Ghosts of Cannae” is a good book on the aftermath by O’Connel


16 posted on 05/12/2021 9:14:54 AM PDT by KC Burke (If all the world is a stage, I would like to request my lighting be adjusted.)
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To: LuciusDomitiusAutelian

Hi.

“The question no one can answer is why Hannibal never marched on Rome. “

I’m guessing it was G-d. He had more important things for Rome to do circa 33 AD.

5.56mm


17 posted on 05/12/2021 9:17:05 AM PDT by M Kehoe (Quid Pro Joe and the Ho need to go.)
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To: M Kehoe

Are you referring to Pontius Pilate?


18 posted on 05/12/2021 9:29:23 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian (netstat -an | grep BS)
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To: KC Burke

Thanks KC Burke. I have his biographies of Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar. I’ll have to check that one out. Goldsworthy seems to be becoming the best know scholar and author of Rome producing works that people are actually reading.


19 posted on 05/12/2021 9:32:57 AM PDT by LuciusDomitiusAutelian (netstat -an | grep BS)
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To: KC Burke

I think the classic saying is that to win a battle like Cannae, you needed a genius like Hannibal, and moron like Varro.


20 posted on 05/12/2021 9:36:51 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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