I don't think so...
Melissa Beebe, an oncology nurse, relies on her observation skills to make life-or-death decisions. A sleepy patient with dilated pupils could have had a hemorrhagic stroke. An elderly patient with foul-smelling breath could have an abdominal obstruction.
So when an alert said her patient in the oncology unit of UC Davis Medical Center had sepsis, she was sure it was wrong. “I’ve been working with cancer patients for 15 years so I know a septic patient when I see one,” she said. “I knew this patient wasn’t septic.”
Nurses can override the algorithm with the attending doctor’s permission. There is a protocol that is followed when the algorithm determines that a patient is septic and it does not provide a rationale for its decision. It merely created an alert when it noticed objective data that were similar to past patients with sepsis. Beebe could tell that sepsis was not the problem, but she still had to draw blood. As Bannon noted, that created a risk of infection while adding to the patient’s medical bills. So AI is good at finding an issue, but not so good when it comes to pinpointing it. The piece quotes Kenrick Cato, a professor of nursing at the University of Pennsylvania and nurse scientist at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia: “AI should be used as clinical decision support and not to replace the expert. Hospital administrators need to understand there are lots of things an algorithm can’t see in a clinical setting.”
“how willing are you to turn your care over to artificial intelligence”
Doctor + AI is fine with me. One can check the other.
If the “AI” means you feed in symptoms and it gives treatments, all that is is people that have fed data into a computer and it spits out some of that data.
Trust AI for medical stuff? you frikkin crazy, I have lost pretty much ALL Trust and Respect for the entire medical community after the Fauci Flu Scam and Fake Death Jab called a vaccine.
Today, I trust Medical AI more than I trust Medical Affirmative Action.
I think Medical AI will become the essential Second Opinion within five years.
Within 10 years, AI will become the essential First Opinion, driving down medical costs and medical employment.
If this machine is so good then why hasn't it found a cure for cancer?
Hell, why can't it find a resolution for the DO NOT CALL to work?
Most doctors have now been practicing algorithmic medicine anyways. They have been incrementally conditioned to do so. I foresee the day I will stick my biometric card into my AI physician kiosk and type in my symptoms and pee in the depository and stick my forearm into the sleeve to get not only my blood pressure but for it to take blood samples. Don’t think TPTB aren’t working on it at this moment.
Dr. X in the next room laid out sleeping with headphones, fries on the floor, with video game still playing.
AI “Artie” green light goes off, and Dr X goes to see the patient in next room.
All lined up morning. Off to the afternoon club all day.
Cha-ching cha-ching cha-ching insurance.
The left will likely create rules that state that they can’t be sued if the ai gets it wrong and someone e suffers for it
I don't think so...
Nope. Uh-uh. I don't think so...
I’ve trusted “robots” to operate on me twice. They are controlled by programs, which are artificial intelligence, operating on precise input data created by human doctors. The robot is carrying out the wishes of a surgeon, and is working in tandem with him/her.
AIs used for diagnosis are based on huge troves of data, furnished by doctors. They allow those doctors’ expertise to be used by doctors whose diagnostic skills are not up to those of the AI.
So yes, I would certainly trust an AI, as long as it isn’t furnished by the government.
I shudder to think how the AI, based on current state of the art, would react to a novel pandemic. I’ll grant you that the reaction to COVID-19 was a “follow the money” exercise, but how would you eliminate all social and financial bias from AI training?
Hospital monitoring systems already have a lot of algorithmic software built in to assist doctors and nurses. I believe that software will continue to assist caregivers. I draw the line at “assist” at this point in time. I wonder where medical automation will go?
I see a lot of fear on this subject, and in certain contexts, is not at all unjustified. In many cases it is FULLY justified. But I wanted to add this from someone who works in Healthcare and is actively using AI as a tool.
Everything has a duality to it. It can be used or misused. A hammer that is used to build a wonderful coffee table can also be used to murder someone by bashing their skull in.
I started out working clinically, but have worked in the IT end of this for many years now, and AI use in a specialty such as Radiology is NOT primarily used for making a diagnosis that a Radiologist would blindly accept.
THAT would be insanely stupid.
And that is not to say there won’t be a push to change this, as FReeper glorgau observes, there will come a time with pressure to accept those AI findings. But we are not there. And Freeper eyeamok is well justified in the loss of confidence. Who of us hasn’t lost confidence in healthcare over the events of the last three years.
That said, I thought I would offer my perspective. At my institution, we use AI in a couple of different ways, and it is EXTREMELY useful, especially if the volume of work is great, and you don’t have a surplus of people to get it all done quickly.
One way we use it is to have AI scan CT and MR images to look for patterns that may indicate specific abnormalities. We have multiple algorithms, one that looks for indications of Pulmonary Embolism, another that looks for rib fractures, and yet another that scans for what might be a stroke or brain bleed.
I will use the algorithm for brain bleeds (stroke) as an example.
We send our images to the server that analyzes for these specific things, it looks at certain images and uses AI to look for characteristic patterns. If it finds nothing, it uses an API to talk to the workflow orchestration application and writes a specific value to a field in the database.
The “workflow orchestration” application is the heart of the Radiology department, it displays a list of what imaging exams need interpretation, separates them into what are called subspecialties (so people who specialize in reading brain studies see only those, and someone who specializes in musculoskelatal studies see only those) and sorts them by exam age and priority (the urgency with which they must be read) so it helps the Radiogist figure out which ones need to be read right away because the patient is on a gurney in a room in the ED waiting for the result, or if they are someone who has knee pain and can be read today or tomorrow.
They work from the top of their list, and when an exam is selected for interpretation, it opens the images, speech recognition, and electronic medical record all in context for that patient and exam, so the Radiologist does not have to look them up individually in each application, which would not only be inefficient and tedious, but dangerous.
So, If AI sees nothing on the images, a value is written to the database that translates to a “badge” on the exam in the list which is colored green indicating AI did not see anything. The exam must still be read and every image examined, but...it can be done in turn.
There is also a yellow badge indicating that the AI application got the images, but is still looking at them. Also good to know. The Radiologist may choose to read it anyway, keeping in mind they may want to check again if something positive comes back, which would compel them to take a more focused look at the exam to be sure nothing was missed)
But if there is a RED badge indicating something was seen, two things happen. The “badge” is flagged with a red AI+ flag, and the priority of the exam is elevated to what is called a HIGH STAT priorty. This pushes the exam up to the very top of any worklist it is on and will be the next exam read.
So when the Radiologist selects that exam for interpretation, all the images open up, the electronic record opens up in context, a speech recognition job is initiated, any scanned documents or notes for the exam appear automatically, and a desktop AI widget is notified that the exam is opened.
When the AI application sees the exam is opened, it automatically opens the result of its AI analysis of the images and displays them for the Radiologist. It highlights the area it saw the unusual pattern indicating there might be a bleed in, and has a color map applied which makes the abnormal pattern stand out.
All this happens within five to ten seconds!
When a stroke is involved, EVERY SECOND COUNTS. It can mean the difference between simply losing strength in one hand which might be regained with therapy, or losing the entire side of the body permanently for the rest of the person’s life.
The Radiologist MUST read the entire study. But they can, instead of going through the entire brain scan, go right to that and look immediately at it. If there is indication of a stroke, they can pick up the phone, call the ED physician that there IS a stroke, and the ED doc can immediately begin aggressive treatment.
EVERY SECOND COUNTS.
So, even if a Radiogist goes right to that affected area immediatly upon opening the study and is guided on where to look first by Artificial Intelligence, they still have to read, with their human eyes and brain, the rest of the study. But that AI might have saved 30 seconds. Or a minute. Or worse, they might never have seen the defect and missed it completely, and the patient might be permanently impaired or even die.
Again, using these brain exams as an example, in the old days, they might have printed the films to put up on a light box, and a Radiologist might have had to look at a hundred images. That is a lot, but today, there are many hundreds or thousands of images, and each one must be viewed.
That is a lot.
Physicians are humans. They have faults. Some are better than others. A given physician might be distracted. They might not be feeling well, they might have a sick family member or one on the verge of dying...you name it. They could be distracted by people running in and out of the area, asking them questions, phones ringing, that kind of thing. You blink and rub your eyes, and out of those 5,000 images, you miss that ONE image that might be key. It is a huge responsibility, and they are only humans. They are not perfect.
These Artificial Intelligence applications that we use are meant to ASSIST the physicians, not take over their job. Everyone knows that is their purpose, they know the advantages and limitations, and would look at you as if you were a lunatic if you suggested letting a machine do it.
My point in this long post is to reassure the many people who might be horrified at the concept of having the interpretation of their CT Brain involve the use of AI that in these things, AI is an aid, not an end.
Healthcare will kill even more people to make more money like they do in socialist countries.
Berkshire Hathaway, Amazon.com, and JPMorgan Chase joined forces to establish Haven Healthcare to lower costs for healthcare.
Charlie Munger wants to live longer like everyone else. He does not want you to live longer so he can make more money.
He and Warren Buffett spent billions over the years killing children thru “planned parenthood”. Now he wants to do the same for older people.
Amazon Alexa: You have been saying non approved thoughts so you will now die.
Amazon Shuts Down Smart Home for a Week Over Racist Slur Claim
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4161328/posts
Put this in your mouth, this in your ear and this in your butt. No, put this one in your mouth and this one in your butt.
“do you trust ai”
Nope.
It really couldn’t be any worse than what I already have.