Posted on 01/03/2024 11:09:32 PM PST by UMCRevMom@aol.com
Update from Ukraine | Ruzzia is losing the Critical equipment in Avdiivka | Ukraine wins the fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZksUfLnycsQ
MilitaryLand.net It’s time to look into the future and talk about what awaits us in 2024. In a few weeks, it will be ten years since Russia annexed Crimea and invaded Donbas. Now the focus on will shift back to the beginning of the website: Ukrainian regular and volunteer units. If you like the maps, please stay tuned for more details.
*** Great interactive maps with viewer controlled Map magnification tool to use for each Front!
https://militaryland.net/maps/
Oh goodie!
Another daily zeeper propaganda thread.
...with the first half dozen posts by the propagandist to itself to get the ball rolling.
How...predictable and droll.
The majority of us see both Russia and Ukraine as corrupt hellholes and are against billions of our tax dollars going unaudited to a known money-laundering operation. This does not remotely equate to any shred of support for Russia or Putin.
Most of us are also tired of the onslaught of Ukraine propaganda that a handful of people pollute this site with, day in and day out. Here’s what Jim Robinson has to say about it:
”We are conservatives. Be respectful to your debate adversary (fellow FReeper). For example, do not accuse them of being a "Putinista", "comrade", "murderer", "baby-killer", etc, just because he may have a difference of opinion whether or not the US government should be involved in a controversial foreign war where we were not attacked.”
They really are humor-challenged. They don’t get the whole concept of wit.
A couple of them try to be funny, but it’s always kind of awkward and they just miss the mark.
But they’re hilarious to watch and the fact that they don’t realize that and take themselves so seriously just makes them even funnier.
Instead we get comments on threads that have nothing to do with the Ukraine war by the Russian side with snide comments. They seldom come out and say anything directly and honestly. It is always conflating one issue with another, or attacking on unrelated threads.
If they posted actual factual threads, I would probably not comment. I can't comment on the facts here because I can't test them or confirm them. What I can discern is when people are trying to use trickery or slight-of-hand to win an argument.
When the war first started, the pro-Russian side tried to justify it on its own terms. As that became less and less tenable, they switched to the "it's a waste of money" tactic.
The funny thing is, when I first started conversing on this matter, I stated plainly that that was a valid concern. They then seemed to switch to that tactic almost exclusively. I don't think I count for all that much here, but it seems that the goal here is to get people onside with not helping Ukraine.
I am not saying that not helping Ukraine is not a valid position. I may be for it, but that doesn't mean there aren't good reasons not to do it. That being said, there is a contingent here that is manipulating us using conservatism to do it. They have used the fact that most conservatives are religious or are at least sympathetic to Christianity. They have used our fiscal conservatism. They have used the allegations against Trump regarding the left's Russia collusion hoax. They have used the fear of "neo-cons" and of "global homo".
I can admit that Ukraine has done some bad things and that there has been a lot of propaganda coming out of that side, both foreign and abroad. But the thing is, the pro-Russian propaganda is designed to pervert conservatism itself. It is designed to turn us against our own nations because we currently don't hold office in them.
Had Russia invaded Ukraine while Trump was in office, and Trump had helped Ukraine, I have no doubt the narrative would change. If he does win, I have to wonder what will happen here if he decides to continue aid. FR likes to think of itself as principled, but the standard party line has changed here several times, depending on which politician was in or out of favor. We were a lot harder on Bush, McCain and Romney after their terms than when they were running for office. Additionally, what is termed "neo-con" now was pretty standard FR received orthodoxy in the early 2000s.
“That being said, there is a contingent here that is manipulating us using conservatism to do it. They have used the fact that most conservatives are religious or are at least sympathetic to Christianity. They have used our fiscal conservatism. They have used the allegations against Trump regarding the left’s Russia collusion hoax. They have used the fear of “neo-cons” and of “global homo”.
How about the most important argument: that USA/UK/Poland/Ukraine is trying to drag NATO into this war, by claiming that Putin is an existential threat to life on earth if he wins in Ukraine.
And we end up with a global war over the borders of the Donbass. Just like WW1 started over Serbia.
Save yourself some typing and make a template of this response as well.
Zeepers just don’t get it.
“snide comments.”
Remember your railing about hypocrisy?
Rearing it’s head there.
“If they posted actual factual threads”
Ghost of Kiev! Ruzzianz looooosing! We killed ‘em yay!
You mean like those “facts”?
Or how Ukraine is claiming to be shooting down hypersonic missiles when we don’t have that capability ourselves and they’re using our equipment?
Or launching the missile into Poland and claiming it was Russia?
Like those facts?
“I am not saying that not helping Ukraine is not a valid position.”
That’s exactly what your sise has been saying, anyone who opposes the war and the looting of our taxes without representation gets called a Putler Stooge/putinista/etc etc etc.
Had several of your fellow travelers call me such.
“I can admit that Ukraine has done some bad things”
First time I have heard a supporter even admit that.
I admit I am somewhat surprised.
Now, some background on what is going on:
2014 Maidan coup was an Obama group brainchild.
Victoria Nuland went over and “helped”.
The Democrats had this idiotic idea to get us in war with Russia back in 2014 and earlier.
It was supposed to be Syria we were going to war over, recall Obama and his red line rhetoric.
2014 comes along, Maidan Coup time, 2016 Hillary was “supposed to win” and get us embroiled into war.
Remember her constant talk about war with Russia.
Many of us at the time were scratching our heads and going “what’s up with her soft skull? What’s she on about now?”
Well, their plan was delayed by Trump being elected.
Now they’re trying to get back on schedule.
They really want war, and if the Democrats want it then it’s something we had better damn well deny them.
There is a difference in being against the wasted US taxpayer money, effort and support being given to Zelenski and actually supporting Russia in its invasion of the Ukraine.
I don’t support Russia, but I also don’t support (or believe) Zelenski. Ukraine would be better off without him, frankly. I want the invasion and the war to end but I’m not for pushing the envelope towards WWIII to do it simply because Zelenski says the entirety of the free west ‘must’ support him and send money, arms and the like without end.
And, for all you OCONUS warhawk zeepers out there...... on second thought, forget it. It’s a waste of time.
Oh yeah, I thought the phrase “Vladgasms” was hilarious. That was in reference to a Zeeper here who has and posts all kinds of pictures of Putin and has displayed a rather unhealthy obsession with him.
Naturally, you’re twisting things because it’s what you zeepers do.
You poor thing. You’ve been digging and digging and that’s what you came up with? Swing and a miss, Zeeper! 😂
“ Additionally, what is termed “neo-con” now was pretty standard FR received orthodoxy in the early 2000s”
************************************************
Things change and lessons are learned. We started this century with a national debt of less than six trillion and a possibility of getting spending under control. Now the national debt is over 34 trillion with the next trillion to be added over the coming six months. We started this century with our trust in the honesty, patriotism and integrity of the FBI and CIA and boy have we had a rude awakening on that front. Our nation is being hollowed out and weakened intentionally by malevolent forces.
Bugsy is supposedly a bad ass kitty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3cunsd/til_of_bugsy_the_cat_who_takes_on_12_foot/
>I am not saying that not helping Ukraine is not a valid position. I may be for it, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t good reasons not to do it. That being said, there is a contingent here that is manipulating us using conservatism to do it.
Had Russia invaded Ukraine while Trump was in office, and Trump had helped Ukraine, I have no doubt the narrative would change. If he does win, I have to wonder what will happen here if he decides to continue aid. FR likes to think of itself as principled, but the standard party line has changed here several times, depending on which politician was in or out of favor. We were a lot harder on Bush, McCain and Romney after their terms than when they were running for office. Additionally, what is termed “neo-con” now was pretty standard FR received orthodoxy in the early 2000s.<
“Manipulating us?” “We were a lot harder on Bush, McCain, Romney?”
What the heck are you talking about? You don’t live in this country. You have no say in anything we do.
Why don’t you concentrate on Canada’s problems, for example a glaring one is your Marxist Dictator Pierre Trudeau, you know Fidel Castro’s son?
>Bugsy is supposedly a bad ass kitty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3cunsd/til_of_bugsy_the_cat_who_takes_on_12_foot/<
I have a feeling that kitty is no longer with us.
I think he ran out of lives.
Knock it off
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