Sobran: My Obsession with Jews [for all who mistakenly think he is a valuable contributor]

Federal Observer ^ | maybe 10/30/03 | Joe Sobran

[Right Wing Professor]

Your response, essentially, was that there were "3000 reasons" why such prejudice would be appropriate in their case.

There is massive hostility in the Arab world towards the United States. That's a fact, not prejudice.

[mrustow]

I think you are right-this is a forgery, or at least some of the most inflammatory parts are. Sobran is anti-Israel, but he is not a moron- I can't imagine that he would commit stuff like that "plague-carriers" paragraph to print.

Which version do you have? I don't see anything about "plague-carriers" in the version at Sobran's site, or the reprints by the Michigan Neo-Nazi.

[rmlew]

Should I put down the intern?

[inquest]

There is massive hostility in the Arab world towards the United States. That's a fact, not prejudice.

And Sobran's saying that there's a powerful Jewish contingent in American politics that uses its victim status to augment its power. He may be right or wrong about that assessment, but there's nothing "prejudicial" about making that claim.

My point, in other words, is that either certain statements are racist by their nature, or they're not racist by their nature. If they are, then they're racist no matter what specific group name you insert into the statements.

[rmlew]

Is the following more in line with statndard English? "Presently, Mr. Locke contributes to VDare.com and The American Conservative.

I suppose that I could use a text editor for my responses, but html codes get in the way.

[Stone Mountain]

hy anyone would revere a mass murderer when all the world already knew who and what Stalin was is amazing and sick to me.

The Time Man-of-the-Year award is supposed to be (it wasn't for 2001) awarded to the person who was most responsible for news in that year, not the most revered...

[SJackson]

Presumably, then, he remains agnostic about the existence of any country he hasn't visited or any person he hasn't met.

I would assume so. Heck, I haven't an engineers knowledge of the workings of my computor or the internet, who knows what's coming out on your end. By his standard I guess ole Joe knows for sure he rises in the morning, eats, goes to bed at night, as a pundit, not much else.

[Right Wing Professor]

My point, in other words, is that either certain statements are racist by their nature, or they're not racist by their nature. If they are, then they're racist no matter what specific group name you insert into the statements.

Two statements

A negligible number of Jews died in the holocaust; anyone who says otherwise has an axe to grind

A negligible number of Arabs died in the holocaust; anyone who says otherwise has an axe to grind

Are the two statements equivalent? Of course not; the first is false and marks you as a Holocaust-denier; the second is true. Similarly, Sobran's statements, which are rather hysterical with respect to Israel, might not be hysterical if applied, say to Saudi Arabia.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

I don't have time to search for this again, but it was at the link given in one of the posts above- it is on Sobran's site, but you have to click on his email newsletter to read the whole thing. (May, 2002)

[mrustow]

I retract my previous post; I just found the "plague-carriers" phrase at both postings of the essay (including Sobran's own site). Sobran wrote it, alright.

[SJackson]

I think you are right-this is a forgery, or at least some of the most inflammatory parts are. Sobran is anti-Israel, but he is not a moron- I can't imagine that he would commit stuff like that "plague-carriers" paragraph to print...which version do you have? I don't see anything about "plague-carriers" in the version at Sobran's site, or the reprints by the Michigan Neo-Nazi.

The Orthodox Jew, faithful to an ancient and rigorous tradition, commands respect. So, in a different way, does the nonobservant intellectual Jew, who greatly enriches the life of the mind in the modern West; he remains unobsessed by the Holocaust and skeptical of, even embarrassed by, Zionism. In some cases, both the Orthodox Jew and the unaffiliated intellectual Jew may be downright anti-Zionist.

The plague-carriers, so to speak, are the secularized, liberal, middlebrow Jews whose vulgarity sets the tone for American politics, public discourse, and popular culture. Some of them, like Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand, have real talent, of sorts; most of them are good at making money and aggressive in using it for their pet causes. Above all, they have a low genius for propaganda -- for shaping the popular mind and its characteristic platitudes.

It's fair to note he's refering positively only to the few Orthodox who deny Israel's right to exist, at this time, and the "unaffiliated" Jew (the ones who, when asked their religion, state none).

[inquest]

I don't really know how to evaluate how hysterical Sobran's statements are with respect to Israel. I do, however, have to wonder exactly why it's considered so necessary to our security to be supporting Israel. About the best response I've gotten is that they provide us with intelligence on Arab regimes. And what are they going to do if we stop supporting them? Not provide us with intelligence? Somehow I don't think so.

[mrustow]

These prophecies were made almost two thousand years ago. The Word of God is perfect, the perfect Truth.

OMG! You sound just like my wife!

[mrustow]

>I think it's much more likely it is Sobran's work. The auspices and provenance may be uncertain at this point...

see post #45. Its on the Sobran website, in the archives. For some reason, it doesn't come up on searches.

About a year ago, I found that articles from some major media orgs were no longer cached at google. My hunch was that the orgs threatened google with copyright lawsuits. In Sobran's case, I'm wondering if google decided NOT to list him. I can't imagine him ordering google not to carry his site.

The above may sound weird, but my experience from one year ago, led me to conclude that being carried on google is no longer an automatic thing.

[george wythe]

I don't see anything about "plague-carriers" in the version at Sobran's site, or the reprints by the Michigan Neo-Nazi.

You need better glasses.

The plague-carriers, so to speak, are the secularized, liberal, middlebrow Jews whose vulgarity sets the tone for American politics, public discourse, and popular culture. Some of them, like Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand, have real talent, of sorts; most of them are good at making money and aggressive in using it for their pet causes. Above all, they have a low genius for propaganda -- for shaping the popular mind and its characteristic platitudes.

[stands2reason]

What if one is a domestic paleo and a foreign policy neo?

You mean, a strict constitutionalist plus non-isolationist? I think of myself as such. We can't pretend that USA circa 1789 and USA circa 2003 are the same animals on the world stage, and I don't want us to ever be less powerful than France again.

[stands2reason]

The idea of a "third party" is a myth. It's more like the "third-through-twenty-seventh parties."

[Slings and Arrows]

Should I put down the intern?

Don't even tell me what you did with the cigar.

[Poohbah]

About a year ago, I found that articles from some major media orgs were no longer cached at google. My hunch was that the orgs threatened google with copyright lawsuits. In Sobran's case, I'm wondering if google decided NOT to list him. I can't imagine him ordering google not to carry his site.

He probably put in a "no-robots" file on his website to conserve bandwidth...and he's really trying to deny that he has the problem he has, so he tries to hide it while leaving it available for those in the know.

[Al Simmons]

Hmmmmm...afraid for his two precious boys' lives? Sounds a little bit CONVENIENT (and lame) an excuse for his "change".

Furthermore, I do not think that the "secularized" Jews of the USA that he uses as his scapegoat support Ariel Sharon at all - so that is clearly a false statement in support of his argument. They (ironically, like he PRETENDS to), also "yearn for the days of Abba Eban"!!!!

As for me, I am 100% behind Sharon. I wish he had the political will to push the Phillistines into the Mediterranean on one side, and over the Jordan on the other.
Any sane nation would do this in pure self-defense given the terror-war that the Islamofascists have been waging aainst Israel. The true crime is that the US has not supported Israel's use of the option that the US itself has availed itself of since 9/11.

Just my 2 cents worth.

P.S. To Mr. Sobran (who professes to be a practicing Catholic, I believe). In the Bible, God says that He will Bless those nations that bless the Jewish people, and CURSE those nations that persecute them. Methinks he needs to get away from his catechisms and "Hail Marys" and actually READ the Book! (I am not anti-Catholic - I merely subscribe to the well-documented view that extra-Biblical Catholic Church doctrine and rituals can often obscure for the average man the TRUE meaning of the Scriptures. So, Mr. Sobran - READ the Scriptures FIRST! Then it will all become clearer to you.)