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Ivan The Terrible Rude (Letter To Elizabeth I Found)
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 1-2-2003 | John Vincent

Posted on 01/04/2004 11:14:06 AM PST by blam

Ivan the terribly rude

By John Vincent
(Filed: 02/01/2004)

In a barely literate rant that would have landed him in the Tower had he been an Englishman, the Russian ruler railed against the Queen's "boorish" advisers and likened her to an old maid.

The letter, discovered at the National Archives at Kew, south-west London, was especially inadvisable since at the time it was written, on Oct 28, 1570, the tsar was involved in a courtship of England and in particular English trade.

But, historians will speculate, perhaps it was the failure of a courtship of a different kind that prompted the venomous note penned in his own hand. It has long been suspected that Ivan had proposed marriage to England's "Virgin Queen" and been rejected out of hand.

Fearful that he was surrounded by enemies plotting his death, he had also urged the Queen to allow him political asylum if he were forced to flee his country. She evidently reacted coolly to the request, replying that he could come if he paid his own way.

The letter, included in a new book, Elizabeth I - Her Life in Letters, by the historian Felix Pryor, was sent 10 years after the death of the tsar's first wife.

He was then at the height of his 51-year reign of terror, which reputedly began with the dismemberment of his elderly chancellor and the skinning alive of his state treasurer and culminated in the massacre of the people of Novgorod.

"It is quite simply the rudest letter Elizabeth ever received," said Mr Pryor.

According to a contemporary translation discovered by Mr Pryor, the tsar questioned Elizabeth's authority. "Wee had thought that you had beene ruler over your lande, and had sought honor to your self and proffitt to your Countrie, and therefore we did pretend those weightie affairs between you and us.

"But now we perceive that there be other men that doe rule, and not men but bowers [boors] and marchaunts [merchants], the wich seeke not the wealth and honnor of our majesties, but they seeke there owne proffitt of marchandize.

"And you flowe [flourish] in your maydenlike estate like a maide," he added, insultingly.

He continued on the subject of the English merchants involved in profitable trade: "Those bowrish Marchaunts does seeke their own wealthes. The priviledge that we gave to your Marchaunts be from this daie of none effect."

Mr Pryor explained: "The Tsar was fascinated by England and was seeking refuge here but he went off the deep end when Elizabeth ignored his attempts at wooing her and offered him asylum only if he paid his own expenses.

"The whole tone of the letter is extremely rude, completely lacking any diplomacy. But Ivan had eliminated his foreign office and wrote it himself. If it had been penned by an Englishman he would have undoubtedly have been sent to the Tower and his life would have been threatened.

"The link between England and Russia goes back to about 1540 and was entirely driven by trade. Ivan was a hypocrite because he was just as keen on money as Elizabeth."

The book contains 60 rare manuscripts and includes the earlier, original letter by Ivan written in 1569 when he upbraids her for the manner in which she appeared to be putting England's commercial interests above "our highnes affairs" - believed to be a reference to his secret marriage proposal and his request for asylum if needed.

"He was paranoid about plots against him," said Mr Pryor, "and no doubt assumed that Elizabeth was in much the same position.

"It is widely believed - although concrete evidence is lacking - that it was on this occasion that he sent a proposal of marriage.

"Ivan was already on his second wife. But, like Elizabeth's father, Henry VIII, he was not one to let such considerations stand in his way."

After his first wife died in 1560, he saw marriage as a way of forging political alliances. He had six wives; three died, two were divorced and one survived him.

The book also shows the original manuscript of the famous speech delivered by the Queen to her troops assembled at Tilbury in 1588 to defend England against the Spanish Armada and which contains the famous line: "I know I have the body of a weake and feble woman, butt I have the harte and stomack of a king, and a king of England too."

• Elizabeth I - Her Life in Letters, by Felix Pryor, is published by the British Library (£25).


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: elizabeth1; elizabethi; godsgravesglyphs; ivan; ivantheterrible; letters; rude; terrible
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1 posted on 01/04/2004 11:14:07 AM PST by blam
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To: farmfriend
Ping.
2 posted on 01/04/2004 11:14:35 AM PST by blam
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To: All
Are we there yet?
3 posted on 01/04/2004 11:17:13 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Happy New Year)
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To: blam

"And you flowe [flourish] in your maydenlike estate like a maide," he added, insultingly.

4 posted on 01/04/2004 11:21:18 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
Ivan the Terrible also attacked and killed his own son in a paranoid rage.
5 posted on 01/04/2004 11:27:33 AM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz
The Terrible Ivan
6 posted on 01/04/2004 11:31:56 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Perry White: These guys claim that if the French government doesn't meet their demands, they've got a hydrogen bomb ready to level Paris.
Clark Kent: Jeepers Mr. White, that's terrible!
Perry White: That's why they call them terrorists, Kent.
7 posted on 01/04/2004 11:32:30 AM PST by Johnny_Cipher (Meddle not in the affairs of crocodiles, for you are crunchy and good with catsup.)
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To: SkyPilot
Bingo!! Our minds conjured up the same ghastly image immediately. First I thought of a bowling ball, then Maddie.
8 posted on 01/04/2004 11:32:56 AM PST by speedy
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To: blam
Ivan the Terrible rude?
Whodda' thunk it?
9 posted on 01/04/2004 11:36:13 AM PST by VOA
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To: SkyPilot
Madelaine The Terrible
10 posted on 01/04/2004 11:45:44 AM PST by luvbach1
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; abner; Alas Babylon!; Andyman; annyokie; bd476; BiffWondercat; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

11 posted on 01/04/2004 11:55:44 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: cebadams
I pinged this one before I got you added to the list.
12 posted on 01/04/2004 12:00:35 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: blam

Ivan IV Groznyj ["The Terrible"].
13 posted on 01/04/2004 12:22:40 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Ciexyz

Il'ia Efimovich Repin: Ivan the Terrible and His Son Ivan: November 16, 1581 (1885)
Oil on canvas, 199.5 x 254 cm. Tretiakov Gallery, Moscow.
14 posted on 01/04/2004 12:28:58 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: blam
"Ivan was already on his second wife. But, like Elizabeth's father, Henry VIII, he was not one to let such considerations stand in his way."
After his first wife died in 1560, he saw marriage as a way of forging political alliances. He had six wives; three died, two were divorced and one survived him.

For anyone who is wondering the second sentence is talking about Henry VIII and not Ivan. I love the way they delicately state that three of the wives "died". Having your head chopped off does tend have that result.

Divorced, Beheaded, Died
Divorced, Beheaded, Survived.

As for Ivan being rude...big shock!

15 posted on 01/04/2004 12:29:04 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (At the year's end, count how many people have survived and celebrate your good fortune.)
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To: blam
"But now we perceive that there be other men that doe rule, and not men but bowers [boors]...

My guess is that rather than boors the term boyars is probably what is meant.

16 posted on 01/04/2004 1:02:04 PM PST by curmudgeonII
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To: blam
It's a standard aristocratic attitude, from the beginning of time, that merchants and traders are boorish.

For instance, the charge that he's a merchant is the worst insult Euryalus can think of to insult Odysseus with (Book VIII):

Then Euryalus reviled him outright and said, "I gather, then, that you are unskilled in any of the many sports that men generally delight in. I suppose you are one of those grasping traders that go about in ships as captains or merchants, and who think of nothing but of their outward freights and homeward cargoes. There does not seem to be much of the athlete about you."
17 posted on 01/04/2004 1:05:38 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: RussianConservative; David Hunter
Ping!
18 posted on 01/04/2004 2:15:50 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: farmfriend
Ah, two of my favorite historical people, to read about. Many thanks for the ping. :-)
19 posted on 01/04/2004 2:18:52 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Cicero
It's a standard aristocratic attitude, from the beginning of time, that merchants and traders are boorish.

The new aristocrats on the left have a similar attitude. For example, Howard Dean recently said that if he were President he would summon business leaders to the White House and lecture them about the evils of "greed."

20 posted on 01/04/2004 3:43:46 PM PST by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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