Parents can teach kids to stop abductions

CNN ^ | 2-5-04 | N/A

[Steve Eisenberg]

There have been more than one instance where two children were approached and threatened with a gun. One ran, the other complied with the threat. Only the runner survived.

This would be of relevance if the child that survived had gone to Mr. Stuber's escape training, and the other had parents like my wife and I, who do not teach stranger danger. Was it the case?

[BushMeister]

You are 100% wrong. Teach children and adults to NEVER let anyone take them away, to what police call a "Secondary Crime Scene", where they will almost certainly be absued and/or killed.

Everyone should read this:

SecondaryCrimeScene

Years ago, my girlfriend was confronted by 4-5 men in a subway connecting tunnel, and had the sense to resist their attempts to get her to go to a deserted area. Thank God she did, 'cause all she lost was her purse.

You advice and attitude are truly ill-informed and unsettling.

[BushMeister]

This info is so important, I'm going to post it in its entirety:

"Get in the Car or I'll Shoot! One of the most terrifying crime scenarios begins with a criminal attempting to force a victim into a car, or somehow get them to a remote location. Make no mistake as this is deadly serious...

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER SHOULD YOU EVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE TAKEN TO A REMOTE LOCATION!!! AWAY FROM HELP, YOU WILL HAVE THE LEAST CHANCE OF SURVIVAL.

Law enforcement officers refer to the "remote location" as a secondary crime scene. Generally the secondary crime is rape, assault and murder.

Think about it. You are accosted on the street or in your home. The criminal can get your wallet, your jewelery, your purse and car keys. If they insist on taking you somewhere against your will it is for one purpose and one purpose only... to isolate you from help so they can hurt you as badly and for as long as they want. Victims, particularly women, who have allowed themselves to be driven into the swamps, woods or abandoned warehouses of some criminal's choosing have suffered the most horrible torture, sometimes for days on end. In many cases, the process ends only when the victim dies.

But he had a gun, what else could I do...?

RUN SCREAMING. Police statistics show that the likelihood of a criminal actually shooting at a fleeing victim, particularly in a public environment, is relatively low. The chance of being hit is even lower, and the chance that any hit is life-threatening is lower yet. If you are badly shot, at least it will be in public where you are likely to receive aid as compared to some ditch or swamp where nobody will find your body for years. The chance of dying if you go to a secondary crime scene is staggering.

Police Teach the 50/50 Rule as a way of looking at this issue. If you look at the progression of events that begin the moment you decide to run from a Bad Guy with a gun, you will see how quickly your chance of survival goes up when compared with the statistics of being taken to a secondary crime scene. The 50/50 Rule simply surmises that at every turn, the chance of a good or bad outcome is a flat 50/50 (when in fact the odds are statistically greater in many categories, but lets just walk through the 50/50 rule as it is taught.

IF YOU DECIDE TO RUN,
the chance a Bad Guy will decide to shoot at you is 50%.
OF THE 50% THAT SHOOT,
the chance he will hit you at all are 50%
(thus a 25% chance of being hit)

OF THE 25% THAT ARE HIT
the chance of it being a serious wound are 50%
(thus a 12.5% chance of serious wound)

OF THE 12.5% SERIOUSLY WOUNDED
the chance of fatality is 50%
(thus a 6.25% probability of being killed if you run)

IN CONTRAST... the chance of being killed, wounded and/or tortured at a secondary crime scene are so high as to be considered "a statistical certainty" in most law enforcement evaluations. You cannot guarantee that your experience will follow statistical averages, but since an average is just that, the odds appear overwhelmingly to favor avoidance or resistance rather than compliance in moving to a secondary crime scene.

This topic is not one for flowery prose or fancy analogies. If you are accosted and told to get in a car, do anything in your power to get away. Dropping a purse or wallet may provide a distraction as criminals often will track a source of money and even a step or two head start can make a huge difference. Make use of any cover available, such as ducking behind a car or van, or running through a doorway. Anything you can put between you and the bad guy that he cannot shoot through will help keep you alive. Scream as loud as you can and try to draw as much attention as you can, but do not EVER allow a criminal to take you away from help and away from safety."

Will children be able to implement this advice? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But certainly not if they're not given the advice in the first place.

[Ciexyz]

This article assumes that a child will be able to overcome her initial shock and then react. In my personal experience, I found that I was "frozen" in the initial moments of an attack.

I'm female, in my 20's at the time, coming home from work at midnite in my car, and three threatening young men stopped their car in front of me, forcing me to slam on my breaks. They jumped out of their car and ran back to my car (it was dark on a suburban road). They started screaming and banging on my windows and kicking at the side of my car, shouting, open up!

I thought the window on my driver's side was going to cave in (they caused significant damage to my car.) At this point in time, I seemed to freeze. Everything seemed to me to be happening in slow motion. I was frozen in the seat of my car. I wanted to scream, I was trying to make myself scream, but nothing would come out.

After some seconds, I remembered my umbrella with the four inch point that lay under my seat. I remember thinking, if the window goes, then I can jab that point in one of the attackers' faces. So I reached slowly, deliberately under my seat.

I assume that they thought I was reaching for a gun, and they ran off. They hit their car in reverse and stopped just short of my bumper, then drove off. If I hadn't still been in a sort of frozen state, I would have put my car in reverse and sped backwards. But I found that I couldn't think entirely clearly.

I've shared this story on message boards before. (Gun owners love it, I'm sure!) Maybe it will help someone realize how to mentally prepare for stress during an attack situation.

[Oorang]

I am stunned by your post.

Freepers of all people should know what it takes to deal with this kind of person (hint: 2nd amendment).

I am very pro-2nd amendment. Life NRA member, annual contributor to CCRKB, SAF and others. Have concealed carry in two states, etc., etc. When it comes to 2nd amendment you are preaching to choir here. BUT, children cannot legally carry.

I want the kidnappers to be scared, not my kids

This sounds so PC it is astonishing but perhaps I am misinterpreting what you are trying to say. Kids should be scared of kidnappers. So scared that their adrenaline kicks in and they fight and scream with all their might. Would you rather they didn't fight for their lives at all?

There is no body of evidence indicating it works for kids. Even if the teaching is right, studies of these programs showed that the children wildly misinterpret what they are taught.

I understand you read this along time ago and cannot find the links. But, if these "studies" were valid I feel quite certain that they would still be out there for you to find and post or similar studies with similar results to back up your claim would be online for you to post. Until then I'm not buying it. As far as "children wildly misinterpret what they are taught" I give the average child a lot more credit than you, or these "studies" do. Children, taught properly, can learn anything whether it is math, english or self-defense techniques. Children, given half a chance, crave learning. It sounds to me like you want children to be defenseless and helpless which does not need to be the case.

[JustPiper]

I do know I would not want your handle

[JustPiper]

A few weeks ago, my daughter was taking out the trash! The trash people! This guy with a dog, with plenty of room in the alley to walk, comes up right behind her right next to her and good thing I was watching out an open window and had the instinct and peripheral vision to pick up on him!

He begin 'grilling' her, and I replied to his first querie and the look on his face! Saw him again about 1/4 mile away, all the streets were one way when I tried to follow him to see where 'he' lived to send my hubby and 6'2" son over to his house asking questions. This incident could have took my daughter's life but for two reasons, the one being obvious on my end but 'she' stepped to the side and back and came upstairs quickly while I engaged him!... this is the same daughter that was nearly kidnapped at the age of 2 at Woodfield Mall.

[BibChr]

But that Child Lures site doesn't seem to have anything much except ads to buy their stuff. Or did I miss something substantial?

Dan

[BibChr]

ping

[GatorGirl]

Very good post.

I'd like to add one thing. A while back, I was listening to someone (TV or radio, I don't know) and they said to teach your children not just to scream and kick and yell, but to actually yell "help" and "this is not my daddy/mommy!!!" so people wouldn't assume the crying, kicking, screaming child is merely having a tantrum.

Anything to give that child a chance to get away! Thanks! GG

[GatorGirl]

Omigosh, you're right!

[spunkets]

" they can learn techniques to resist and escape predators"

I got a Buck Special for Christmas when I was a kid. Just the right tool for an effective defense. In those days though, very few of the adults would be mad if the kids hacked up the molester.

[JustPiper]

Each day in the United States, more than 2,000 children are reported missing -- nearly 800,000 each year, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

If Leanna was abducted by a stranger, she's one of about 57,000 such cases annually, Justice Department studies show. But, of those, only a tiny fraction -- 115 annually -- are the stereotypical, long-term kidnapping by a stranger -- the kind of high-profile crimes most often reported in the media.

Of those 115, about 60 percent are recovered alive. Nearly half are sexually assaulted, and nearly all are taken 50 or more miles from their homes.

Stranger abduction "is the smallest percentage of missing children. But when it does happen, there's still good hope that they may come home," Wetterling said, noting recent cases in California and Minnesota where missing children were recovered safe after being abducted.

The majority of missing children nationally -- 45 percent -- are ages 15-17. About 30 percent are 12-14, 14 percent are 6-11 and 12 percent are 5 or younger.

Other links:

http://www.4momsathome.com/articles/vanished.html

Dealing with abduction fears:
Program teaches children ways to prevent, survive the unthinkable
By Judi Brinegar
Staff Writer, The Courier-Tribune
http://www.courier-tribune.com/nws/escape1030.html

[JustPiper]

Steve is a former democrat if that explains it?

[bellas_sister]

When I was 7 in 1977, we lived in Okalahoma City. I was playing Barbie's in the Jeep Land Cruiser around dusk and a man approached the vehicle and said he "had presents for me in his car parked right over there". I told him to go get my mom and started to honk the horn, rolled up the window locked the doors and layed on the horn... he left. My mom yelled out the window to stop playing in the car. Then when I was 16 now living in Toluca Lake, CA. I had a horrible experience when a guy climbed in my window while I was sleeping, he said he had a gun. By the grace of God he ended up leaving with out anyone being hurt. I don't know if he was ever caught. Funny thing is the cops scolded me for telling him "I think you need to leave". I gues they thought I should have been submissive as not to get hurt. I think it is a control/power thing with preditors. The reality of this issue is always in the back of my mind and I have since become, some would say paranoid. My husband doesn't understand my constant concern to have all the windows shut and locked even in the sweltering summer nights.

[JustPiper]

"FIRE" gets the most attention!

I also heard on Norville, who herself gave her kids a 'codeword'. Don't! Because they can get that out of a child!

[JustPiper]

A replacing E was my first thought with his first post

[JustPiper]

Try this post Dan -g-

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1072397/posts?page=33#33

[JustPiper]

Glad you 'survived' these ordeals! I've pinged a cop to this thread to help us, hope he's on ;)

I had a terrible incident at 12, beside's the umpteen 'flashings' when I was a kid...the news, yes I even listened to it on my transistor back when , of hearing several boys were murdered here (infamous case)
and also hearing of 9 children being kidnapped and found decapitated etc. lead me to good instincts, because my mother's advice then was run ;)

But remember Silence is not golden in this case! Scream! Scream! Scream!

[Quix]

GREAT ADVICE.

I'D SUGGEST PRACTICING A VARIETY OF ROLE PLAYS AT LEAST MONTHLY FOR 6-8 MONTHS UNTIL IT BECOMES VIRTUALLY 2ND NATURE TO THE KIDS--REGARDLESS OF THEIR COMPLAINTS OR TEASING ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT to practice.