Neanderthal Man 'Never Walked In Northern Europe'

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 8-22-2004 | Tony Paterson

[newheart]

No it cannot possibly be true. Neanderthal man is one of the pillars of evolutionary theory. Therefore anything that contradicts the theory is, as an article of faith, false.

[FreedomSurge]

Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' - He skipped. The Neanderthals were great skippers, the modern game of hopscotch (paleolithic in nature) is decended from them.

[SunkenCiv]

Heh heh... He must have been that guy on eBay selling the monkey skulls. I was a little mystified by this -- "Yet recent research at Oxford University's carbon-dating laboratory has suggested that they date back a mere 7,500 years. By that time, Homo sapiens was already well-established and the Neanderthals were extinct." If Neandertal remains (if that's what they are -- perhaps they've never been definitively identified through their anatomy) are 7,500 years old, the Replacement (master race) hypothesis is shown to be twaddle. Not that it isn't twaddle, just that this could be the smoking gun. :'D

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[SunkenCiv]

Translation (such as it is) by Google. "The cabinet was half gepluendert". Yeah, I grok that. Hate to have that happen here at home.

[bondserv]

Ping!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[bondserv]

Posted by bondserv to Jaguar1942
On News/Activism 08/18/2004 4:10:48 PM PDT · 660 of 1,102

...We are finding the standard interpretations of the fossil record are highly suspect. Much deception has been and continues to go on.

Posted by balrog666 to bondserv
On News/Activism 08/18/2004 4:13:30 PM PDT · 663 of 1,102

Much deception has been and continues to go on.

That's called "religion".

[bondserv]

Ping to above!

[Fedora]

Thanks; fascinating.

[MacDorcha]

"doubt has been cast on the carbon dating of skeletons by a leading German anthropologist. "

i heard a story about a research site getting sent refrigerated cow bones from a beef manfaturing cite by a group of kids. the research concluded that it was in fact, 1,800 years gone bovine.

unfortunately, this was a story i heard long ago, but the gist i got was this: carbon dating is about as accurate as a Michael Moore film.

[LiteKeeper]

Neanderthal Man—the changing picture

[Cronos]

"What happened? Did some lawyers representing some of Neatherthal Man's descendants file claims for reparations or land?"

I thought the Neanderthals either died out or were absorbed by the invading Cro-Magnon men.

[RaceBannon]

Goodness! Does this mean that Carbon Dating is NOT accurate??

A 27,000 year old skull that still smells?

For that matter, a 200 year old skull that still smells??

[longjack]

Neandertal is near the city of Düsseldorf (middle left on the map above, between Essen and Cologne). Neanderthal is the Old German spelling.

---

I did the translation below from the second part of the "Spiegel-Online" article. It gives an idea of the level of controversy the German anthropologists are facing.

I am definitely not an Anthropologist, so my translation of terms or science specific descriptions may not be correct. For the purpose of just posting here I didn't want to take lot of time to study the exact terminolgy.

I hope that some of you will find it easier to figure out than 'Google' or 'Babelfish'.

---

........excerpted

More than anything else, however, the researcher was apparently on war-footing with his C 14 device. Protsch nevertheless scrambled to get the analysis of the noblest and most exciting anthropoid discoveries. The professor examined the Neanderthal man of Hahnöfersand in 1980. When some colleagues still had doubts, the carbon-acrobat pulled out another measurement, which had allegedly been made by his friends from California. This one was also over 35 000 years.

Astonishment gripped the guild at that time. A Neanderthal man had never been discovered so far to the north before. The Helms Museum in Hamburg rejoiced and lured many thousands of visitors. Posters show the supposed "oldest Hamburger" as a flat-nosed, powerful, forest gnome.

Now a hangover mood reigns. " Hahni", as some call him, was not a diluvial primitive, but a modern person who had hunted ducks on the Elbe during the borderline to the agriculture culture 7500 years ago. The Museum person in charge, Ralf Busch opines, "We were not amused"

The anthropologist Günter Bräuer had a long face last week, too. In learned essays he had interpreted the fossil as a robust half-breed between Neanderthal man and homo sapiens. For him, Hahni was the central piece of evidence in his "hybrid theory", which says that the two anthropoid types had sex with each other. His commentary: "Pity, I was wrong."

What a disgrace! But Bräuer excuses himself: Protsch came from the University of California ", from the smithy of experts". Moreover, his institute has been "showered with money".

Neanderthal from Hahnöfersand on a poster of the Hamburger Helms-Museum: "Pity, I was wrong"

........excerpted

The current doctoral candidate is no longer happy with his job, either. For two years he has been sitting on a mountain of bone remnants which originate from three to four individuals, and were discovered in the vicinity of an extinct volcano in the eastern Eifel by the Coblenz administrative offices for the preservation of historical monuments. According to Protsch they are 27 000 years old.

No one in Frankfurt wishes to believe that now. The material is in the C 14 laboratory of Kiel at present and is being examined. One of the teeth has a cavity. Just that makes one suspicious: For the nature lads from the ice age who didn't know what sugar was, that plague was rare.

In view of the many suspicious circumstances the experts are now pressing for a new analysis of the "Lady of Kelsterbach", also. It is one of the key fossils in German Stone Age lore.

In 1952 the skull had been discovered in a Hessian gravel pit. Protsch dated it, under the laboratory number Fra 5, as having an age of 31,200 years.

It seemed as if the man had again held a record bone in his hand. The remains, he reported proudly in the technical journal "Ice Age and the Present", are Europe's "oldest directly dated hominid fossil". Because the research duo Terberger and Street harbored doubts, they asked for a test speciman. But Protsch refused.

The university management is now attempting that with force . In the presence of the legal department, the janitor broke open the green safe in which the institute director stores the Fossils.

Surprise: The safe was half looted. The skull of Kelsterbach had disappeared.

"Spiegel-Online"...."Die Regeln mache ich" (2).....August 16, 2004....Matthias Schulz

Translated by longjack

[Ichneumon]

Goodness! Does this mean that Carbon Dating is NOT accurate??

No it doesn't. The accuracy of carbon dating has been established countless times. But like any measuring system of any sort, sloppy application will result in sloppy results. It seems that the German guy was either habitually sloppy/incompetent, a fraud, or a made up his "results".

[Ichneumon]

unfortunately, this was a story i heard long ago, but the gist i got was this: carbon dating is about as accurate as a Michael Moore film.

You're quite mistaken. When performed properly, carbon dating is very accurate. The method has been calibrated and verified countless times, in dozens of independent ways.

Like any procedure, however, it's possible to f*** it up if you don't do it right.

[Caipirabob]

There is still much left unexplained in this article.

[Ichneumon]

No it cannot possibly be true. Neanderthal man is one of the pillars of evolutionary theory.

No it isn't. But just for laughs, feel free to explain in your own words exactly how you think it is, and why a minor change in the geographic range of Neanderthals would somehow undermine evolutionary theory.

Therefore anything that contradicts the theory is, as an article of faith, false.

You must be thinking of the creatinionists -- evolutionary science follows the evidence where it leads, and if necessary adjusts the theory as indicated by the new discoveries.

[longjack]

It seems that the German guy was either habitually sloppy/incompetent, a fraud, or a made up his "results"

More paragraphs from the article, which suggest your assessment is correct.

---

........excerpted

But in reality, rumors about the professor had already been circulating for a long time. Henke admits openly: "Protschern became a synonym for fudge it."

"The man has falsified data", also says former employee Bernhard Weninger, who now heads the C 14 laboratory at the Cologne Institute for Pre- and Early History. "At the end of the eighties we examined a mass grave from the Ceramic layer", he explains. Because the tedious measuring procedure lasted too long for the boss, he simply thought up a plausible age and passed it on to the archeologists. Weninger: "We called those tricks 'mental dating'."

The Bishop of Limburg was also fobbed off in that way, says Weninger. "Around 1989 we were supposed to examine the body of a saint", he relates. He himself had begun working on determining the age of the mummy. Shortly thereafter, Protsch invited the bishop to the institute and brashly announced the results. "I wasn't any way near finished with the measuring yet."

"Spiegel-Online"....August 16, 2004....Mattias Schulz

Translated by longjack

[RaceBannon]

Yeah, right!

HAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Bones from cows being called tens of thousands year old, living mollusks labeled 10,000 years old..

Puleeze!