Tensions between Israel and France

UPI Senior News Analyst ^ | November 17, 2004 | Martin Sieff

[free.speech10]

Tensions between Israel and France are based on serious policy differences between the governments but there is much more personal animus to them than between Israel and most other members of the EU. A few years ago at a large dinner, France's ambassador to Britain was reported as having described Israel as "a shitty little country."

[IAF ThunderPilot]

Not also* but the main reason*

[Convert from ECUSA]

I hope Israel rubs France's nose in it ten times over. France has been in it up to their eyeballs for years with the terrorists, Saddam, etc. And I cannot forget the TV pictures of the reactions of Israelis at the news of 9/11...the deep and heartfelt sympathy they felt and expressed for us. Israel certainly has my vote anytime!

[Little Ray]

My point was that France has reasons to dislike Israel.

And Israel is hardly reliable, esp. for a nation that gets billions from us. They have spied on us, killed our service members, pirated equipment and enhanced the capabilities of our enemies (like the PRC) for profit. Israel is Israel's ally only. They have an interest in what we are trying do in the ME so they support us.

As for France, they seem largely on the side of the terrorists. Too bad Bush won't him with the "for us or against us" club.

[IAF ThunderPilot]

"Billions" do you mean the 2.2 billions the USA gives to Israel, when Israel's economy is 105 billion? Wow we are totally surviving from the american help! (sarcasm)

You know very well that USA started support israel in militray terms only in 1973, and therefore Israel fought alone and won alone the 1948 Independence war, the tiny Hagana against 5 arab military countries, and then wipped out the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian armies in 1967 within 6 days alone by itself.

Israel was doing just fine without the US help and it can sure do that today. The fact that US gives Israel this money is only so the middle east will be more stable with a strong democratic nation, and uhm mayve to save some more jews?
Oh and why exacly does the US gives so much military aid to Saudi Arabaia (a larger help than it gives to Israel!), Saudi is a fully terror supporter country, bin laden is saudian, so what is the US interest here? And why US gives similar military aid to Egypt? Those two are far from being pro American countries...

All the system of the aid is corrupted.

Most of the Israelis are pro American, and Israel is probably the most pro US country than any other country in the world.

And as for your other claims, its so rediculus that I wont bother to repply.

Only one thing that I must say: The former head of the CIA stated: "Israel worths 5 CIA's". I think that says something, dont you?

[IAF ThunderPilot]

And pleace do not tell me that US doesnt or didnt spy on Israel...
Israel by the way never had a spy except Jonathan Pollard, and by the way you do realize that the only information Israel was looking for, was for its own security, about middle eastern countries?
Israel never looked for an information that would harm the USA.

Can you balme a country that want to survive and therefore takes information from another friendly country, an information that would not eaven harm this friendly country?

[Little Ray]

I have nothing against Israel and fully support its efforts at survival. It lives in an incredibly hostile environment. Its efforts are positively heroic.

I think the "two-nation" solution is foolish. Judging from the behavior of the Palis, Israel can NEVER trust them as neighbors. The USA grossly mistreated Israel in the process of implementing the "peace process." A lot fewer Israelis were getting killed before there was a "peace process."
Also, Israel won the Gaza Strip and West Bank by force of arms, and I would fully support Israel's annexation of them and the Golan Heights. And the expulsion of the Palis. They are lousy neighbors: even other Arabs hate them.

Israel has had spies other than Pollard. John Foster Dulles was considered paranoid because he suspected he was being spied on by the Mossad - but he WAS being spied upon by the Mossad! The Mossad also has a reputation for horse trading - they will trade info gathered from one source to other intelligence agencies. This can compromise the source... Of course the USA can hardly point fingers over that; our bloody Senators have gotten our sources killed by talking too much.

Your comment about aid was disingenuous. Israel's economy may be $105 billion, but how much is the governments budget? Maybe a quarter of that? So 2.2 billion dollars is 6-7% of the Israeli government's budget?
I agree that the aid process is screwed up. To many Arabists in the State Department. Hopefully Dr. Rice will shake this up.

Finally, did, or did not Israel propose to sell AEW aircraft to the PRC? And why does their latest fighter design looks so much like the Lavi?

As I said before, I support Israel. I appreciate the fact that Israel is the only democratic state in the ME. I just don't blindly support Israel.

[2nd Amendment]

There is always tension when one is dealing with a terrorist sponsoring nation. Israel must be careful!!

[NYC GOP Chick]

France was so incensed by the deadly Nov.9 air attack on its troops it responded with overwhelming force, wiping out the entire Ivory Coast air force.

Wow. That must have taken a tremendous amount of time, effort and personnel...

[eddiespaghetti]

When Israel was founded in 1948, France was an ally. At some point in the 50's (I think) one day without warning they changed their mind and started backing the Arabs.

While France was still holding on to Algeria as a colony, France was not popular in the Arab world. After the French left Algeria (under De Gaulle in 1962, IINM), they decided it was an opportune time to get cozy with the Arabs after years of hostility. Immediately after the Six-Day War, France, I mean, De Gaulle (same thing, I suppose) announced that France would no longer sell weapons to Israel.

[eddiespaghetti]

You know very well that USA started support israel in militray terms only in 1973 . . .

Uh, I think it started in 1967 (after the Six-Day War), when Britain and France announced they would no longer sell Israel tanks and planes (respectively).

es

[Grzegorz 246]

"American gives far more in military aid, directly and indirectly, to various other countries such as the EU..."

US government gives EU some military aid ?

[Grzegorz 246]

What type of aircraft are you flying ?