Groupthink and You

Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | 08/29/01 | Karen De Coster and Brad Edmonds

[NMC EXP]

Groupthink is alive and well in business and industry.

The "6-Sigma" cult being the worst example.

[stevefromcalifornia]

This is like those crappy team-building exercises some companies force their employees to attend. Falling back and letting some shlump catch you, walking on hot coals...what a waste of time and effort.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

"Groupthink is alive and well in business and industry.
The "6-Sigma" cult being the worst example"

Depends on how it's administered. I'm a 6 Sigma Black Belt and I well know how hard each member of my team works. The benefits of the project depend upon measurable results before and after the change.

Any methodology can be gamed and beaten. Don't single out 6 Sigma.

[ScottM1968]

A lot of this is true. I went through business school and can vouch for parts of it.

However, "groupthink" is commonly described as the inability of some to stand up against the rest of the group. The classic example given in one class was the Bay of Pigs fiasco. No one stood up to Kennedy about doing this rather bizarre thing. Because no one offered a differing view, all thought they were the only ones not on board with the President. And so the fiasco came to be.

In business school, we were all encouraged to get our ideas out, but then they would be shot down for one reason or another. That alone stops the classic version of "groupthink."

I would like to see no grades issued for anything save for the midterms and finals. Cheating helps too many as it is when assignments are supposed to be individual. When in groups, the slackers do ride while those working may only grow to understand their part of the assignment (for lack of time to review the other work).

If no grades were given for all non-midterm and final work, slackers or cheaters would wind up with a grade befitting them. And the rest of us would get the grade we earned.

[Jim Robinson]

Yup. It's way past time for individualists to fight back. Individualists United! We should all join the Ludwig von Mises Institute to learn the right way to be individualists.

[Southern62]

not exactly sure why - but i feel strangely compelled to agree ....

[NMC EXP]

Don't single out 6 Sigma.

Request denied.

My frame of reference is as an engineer (a mere "green belt") and 25 year vet of a Fortune 100 manufacturer.

I have seen all of the other schemes pedaled by every consultant to come down the pike come and go and this is the worst.

Even the green belt traing contains a bunch of sociological techniques on how to quell dissent in the team to reach the holy grail of "concensus".

Engineering should not be a democracy.

SS has taken on the aspects of a cult in my corp.

[Peter J. Huss]

When I was in college, EVERY single time I was given a group project I told the other members that I will do the whole project and 'we' will get and A. The offer was never refused and I always delivered.

[NMC EXP]

Long time no debate, JimRob.

Your remarks are a jab a libertarians I assume. Well I must agree that libertarians are (collectively) their own worst enemy.

Thats what happens when a bunch of people who prize individual liberty above all else try to get organized.

Its like trying to herd cats.

However, that fact does not mean that (1)individual liberty is not a worthwhile goal and (2) compromise is not an option.

Regards,

J.R.

[Jim Robinson]

LOL. Just though the article to be a bit ironic. Perhaps we should all become groupees of the Ayn Rand Institute of Libertarian Thinking and thus avoid falling prey to groupthink.

[AggieCPA]

I went back to school a few years ago as an adult. It seems that about half the classes had group projects but there were always slackers.

On one project the others were too tired or they had to meet their boyfriends, etc. I tried to tell them we needed to do more before we turned it in the next day but it was a Thursday (The new Friday) and they all left.

I worked all night on it and brought it to class the next morning. When I gave it to the girl (the one with the boyfriend)who had randomly drawn the role of president of the corporation we were running, she was dead set against turning it in.

The teacher heard the argument and let me turn it in and them turn in the group one. I got a 100, the group got 79. I had E-mailed the instructor that if mine was better to give it to the whole group, if it worse just give it to me.

Some of the group (those who needed the points) were appreciative but the others were resentful and excoriated me on the peer evaluation. It just goes to show that success is based a lot on merely getting along, not doing good work.

[NMC EXP]

I know what you mean. It is ironic from both directions. Hard core libertarian types will never get organized and libertarianism will never grow until they get organized.

Not just ironic, its a paradox.

Regards

J.R.

[baltodog]

I just did a presentation on "Groupthink" in a college course...

While the author's ideas point in the right direction, a few important points are left out:

1) The group feels infallible. They cannot be wrong. Their way is the only way.

2) Mindgaurding is imposed: Nothing that has the potential to dispel the infallibility is allowed or considered.

The most recent classic examples of Groupthink would be the Sabrejet/Valuejet decisions that led to the tragedy of the Everglades crash and the Morton Thyocal/NASA decisions that led to the Challenger disaster.

I guess Groupthink could be applied to the political arena as well.

I am in charge of several teams at work right now. Although I stress the importance of teamwork, I also remind them that they are being evaluated as individuals. I hold individuals responsible for the work the team does. I won't let a few people carry the whole load of others.

Sigma Six seems to be the "flavor of the month". Sometimes American business spends so much time improving work processes, that they forget to work...

[Revolting cat!]

Bay of Pigs

Ah yes, the Bay of Bigs and the Leftist version of history, the predominant one, what else, that you, like most, seem to have swallowed hook line and sinker. Peggy Noonan's brief version: (there are others.) (emphasis mine)

"Forty-two years ago this spring, in April 1961, a young American president launched an amphibious invasion on a foreign shore. It was such a thorough failure that to this day the words “Bay of Pigs” are shorthand for “American military fiasco.” The American-trained Cuban exiles who stormed the beaches of Cuba in hopes of liberating their homeland were, essentially, abandoned and left to die, denied the support they’d been promised by the U.S. government. Fidel Castro crushed them. The Bay of Pigs invasion was badly planned, poorly executed and almost wildly unrealistic. (Months before it began former secretary of state Dean Acheson told JFK, in a private Rose Garden conversation, that you didn’t need Price Waterhouse to figure out 1,500 guerillas aren’t going to beat 25,000 Cuban regulars.) And yet after the invasion, when Kennedy both acknowledged the failure and took responsibility for it, he won the support of the American people. His approval rating jumped to 82%. He rallied. History, and his administration, went on." Link

[NMC EXP]

If you are interested in groupthink I suggest you check this out: Globalism, Neo-tribalism and False Reality

[Blue Screen of Death]

Karen De Coster and Brad Edmonds

I love studies of individuality done by a team of writers.

[Strategerist]

Yep. I found group projects so loathsome I simply did them all myself as I wanted everything done the way I wanted it.

Actually I remember in 3rd grade after reading an Apollo 13 story we were assigned to make a timeline as a group project. The other idiots simply started putting the sequence of events equally spaced apart on a strip of paper even if they were 5 seconds or 5 hours apart. I flipped out and told them you had to space it proportionately timewise. Teacher finally let me do my own timeline. :-)

[NMC EXP]

I am fascinated by the insightful and in depth analysis of the subject matter at hand provided by some posters.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

I can't speak for 6 Sigma at other companies.

I work at Caterpillar. Like many other things, we've adapted 6 Sigma to our own culture.

Based on my training and the literature I've read, there's no attempt to quell dissent; rather we're taught to bring out the viewpoints of those who are quiet and to not allow one person to dominate discussion. As far as consensus is concerned, you're given your project objective, and you respond to what survey and experimental data tell you, not the opinion of team members or even management sponsors.

That management adheres to its own dictum, "facts not opinion" is shown by the example of Cat's first CIO, Sid Banwart. At the start of 6 Sigma in 2001, had a pet project he launched. The Black Belt came back after the Define phase and recommended it be shut down. Sid wanted more data, so after the Measure phase the Black Belt and all the team said to kill the project, and Sid did. The system he wanted to promote didn't do what he thought it would. So we didn't develop it.