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Hybrid Taxis Encounter Catch-22 of Regulation (NYC, where else?)
NY Times ^ | June 17, 2005 | SEWELL CHAN

Posted on 06/17/2005 9:07:43 PM PDT by neverdem

Last October, New York City officials held a special auction of 27 heavily discounted taxi medallions that could be used only with cabs powered by natural gas or by a combination of gasoline and electricity.

Eighteen of the licenses were sold, at an average price of $222,743, one-third less than the cost of a regular medallion. The Taxi and Limousine Commission praised the program as a first step toward the reduction of harmful emissions.

One problem: The commission never got around to approving any alternative-fuel vehicles for use as taxicabs.

It is now trying to back away from the sale, asserting that there are no gasoline-electric hybrids on the market with enough interior space and legroom for passengers.

After months of talks with the city, the three winning bidders have filed a lawsuit, asking a judge to order the completion of the sale or award damages for breach of contract. The city's Law Department contends that the bidders never had a valid contract.

The three bidders, Russian immigrants, have hired a Washington-based law firm and a former State Assembly speaker, Mel Miller, to plead their case. Environmentalists have accused the commission of backpedaling on its promises. Now local lawmakers are threatening to step in.

At a hearing yesterday, a City Council committee discussed a bill, introduced by Councilman David Yassky, a Brooklyn Democrat, that would force the commission to approve a clean-fuel vehicle within 30 days. The taxi commission's chairman, Matthew W. Daus, told the committee that "the 30-day time frame is neither practical nor legal."

About 93 percent of the taxi fleet consists of Ford Crown Victorias, which use a traditional engine. Ford had been a leader in developing vehicles that run on compressed natural gas, but in January 2004 the company announced it would withdraw from the market.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Technical; US: District of Columbia; US: New York
KEYWORDS: auctions; environment; fuel; gas; medallions; taxicabs
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1 posted on 06/17/2005 9:07:44 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

It's the congestion that drives them all crazy there.


2 posted on 06/17/2005 9:18:15 PM PDT by henderson field
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To: neverdem
I wonder if they could use BioDiesel in a Taxi something ?
They also could probably approve a Crown Vic CNG...
3 posted on 06/17/2005 9:23:40 PM PDT by stylin19a (Suicide bomber ? "I came to the wrong jihad")
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To: neverdem
Next problem to rear its head will be no LNG fueling stations. Poor liberals. They snap their fingers and command something and then the world will not cooperate. Always those pesky unintended consequences.
4 posted on 06/17/2005 9:32:55 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: neverdem

It costs over $600,000 to enter the taxicab market? That sounds insane!


5 posted on 06/17/2005 9:52:31 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
One third less equates to about a $340,000 standard price, and that does seem awfully expensive. Who knows though, running a cab in NY may be like having a license to print money.
6 posted on 06/17/2005 9:59:47 PM PDT by ExcelJockey
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To: stylin19a

that should be "used" Crown Vic CNG


7 posted on 06/17/2005 10:00:27 PM PDT by stylin19a (Suicide bomber ? "I came to the wrong jihad")
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To: neverdem

600,000 dollars is the entry fee for the taxi market ? That's freakin insane. Just roll one cabbie and make a forged medallion for much less. Even if they take the car each time it would cost less to operate in NYC.


8 posted on 06/17/2005 10:01:38 PM PDT by Centurion2000 ("THE REDNECK PROBLEM" ..... we prefer the term, "Agro-Americans")
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To: ExcelJockey

Thanks. Never do simple math after midnight. Or before 9am. Or on weekends. Or when the moon is full.


9 posted on 06/17/2005 10:12:33 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: neverdem

wuhhh boy.


10 posted on 06/17/2005 10:33:35 PM PDT by King Prout (I'd say I missed ya, but that'd be untrue... I NEVER MISS)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: SycoDon
New York: The only state more fucked up than Florida.

There other states that are more competitive than Florida in regard to comparing other states with NY. Why do you think so many folks move to Florida from NY and not to other liberal havens, which are colored blue, lately?

12 posted on 06/18/2005 12:00:50 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

Part of the problem is limiting options to LNG/CNG. Compressed natural gas has a very limited range. Liquified natural gas would do better, but since LNG tanks are cryogenic, forget about the trunk, it's full of fuel tank.

Propane liquifies by pressure alone, a Victoria could run all day on a tank that would leave luggage space, and can run dual-fuel, propane or gasoline. I know whereof I speak, over twenty years I have done after-market conversions on everything from pickups to floor buffers. If it runs on gasoline, I can make it run on propane. Computerized carburation has bumped the price to about $3,500 per, but one could refuel at the same places that fill grill bottles. Chemically, the difference is an extra carbon atom and emmissions are barely distinguishable. CNG has a better funded lobby.


13 posted on 06/18/2005 2:39:18 AM PDT by barkeep
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To: barkeep

Thanks. I knew LNG was wrong when I typed it but even as I thought about it nothing else would pop into my mind. I knew someone would catch it. :-) Regardless, just as with any other alternate fuel, even deisel, you have to know where to get fuel rather than just stop at any gas station. Some municipalities mandated CNG for city vehicles but they have a central fueling depot. Propane is probably the best gas choice but still not good, for fueling purposes, at the moment.


14 posted on 06/18/2005 8:56:04 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: barkeep

As a side benifit could the expanding gas be used for cooling?


15 posted on 06/18/2005 10:03:19 AM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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To: norraad

Definitely. One of my former competitors made a side income trucking refrigerant grade propane. When R-12/R-22 went away a guy in Florida came up with a perfectly workable auto AC based on a closed propane cycle. It was rule a fire hazard and never went anywhere.

Us good ol' boys in west Texas have used wet lines off the fuel tank to chill hot beer for 50 years. Crack the valve just enough to let liquid out, the liquid is immediately going to its 40 degree below boiling point, takes about a gallon to put flecks of ice in a case of beer. Don't overdo it or you get beercicles. Advice; do this at a safe remove from the communal campfire and gloves are a good idea, this stuff will frostbite your fingers in a half a heartbeat.


16 posted on 06/18/2005 3:23:25 PM PDT by barkeep
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To: barkeep
Thanks, great reply!

It seems the hands on "good'ol'boys" understand this aspect of the technology better than gov. trained book smart techno-mechanic/industro-designers.

Why is that?

17 posted on 06/18/2005 8:49:15 PM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: neverdem

bump for later read


19 posted on 06/18/2005 10:02:11 PM PDT by MissouriConservative (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.)
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To: barkeep
Did you see that guy's website, where he built a propane jet to cool beer in his shed? Basically, it just shot burning propane into the air outside, while the propane tank sat in a tub of water filled with beer cans.

It was funny as heck!

20 posted on 06/18/2005 10:09:51 PM PDT by patton ("Fool," said my Muse to me, "look in thy heart, and write.")
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