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Population of California and New Mexico Territories in The 19th Century
Tactical | 05-02-06 | Tactical

Posted on 05/02/2006 5:46:47 PM PDT by Tactical

Mexico in the 19th Century

Many presidents, generalisimos, emporers, dictators, etc. came and went, which brought a long period of instability that lasted most of the 19th century.

During this period, many of the mostly unsettled territories in the north were lost to the United States. Mexico had a population of about 8,000,000 in 1846 of which about 60,000 lived in the northern territories--mostly in New Mexico (53,000) and California (7,000).

Many of us think of what a mess Mexico is today, but when you look back at it's history, 'revolution' seemed to be the action word. Overthrow after overthrow. Even it's original constitution was similar to the U.S. Constitution, but it was commonly overlooked. I guess the rule of law never has been much of a concept in Mexico unless it's suited someone in power??

Anyway, I was wondering about the U.S. war with Mexico and the eventual treaties that made the southwest a part of the United States.

Something of interest to me was the population of these areas back then and how unpopulated and sparsely settled they were.

Hearing and reading comments today from people supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants, it's often brought to our attention that we forcefully took the southwest from Mexico and murdered their people.

What has been neglected to be said is that many of these people became U.S. citizens and remained in the southwest.

Mexico had failed to develope the areas because they were basically deserts and the return for investment wasn't plentiful. Back in those days Mexico gave land grants in the northern parts of the current Mexico and in the U.S. southwest territories. With the stipulation that the people become Catholics and Mexican citizens.

Back in the day when Napolean beat Spain and took over ruling Mexico, the Catholic church lost it's power. They've had their hands in Mexican politics/revolutions ever since.

Draw your own conclusions with that bit of info.

At any rate with the immigration debate going on, I suggest a fair and equitable settlement to the whole entire problem.... ready?

The U.S. could allow 7,000 illegals to remain in California and 53,000 illegals to remain in the then New Mexican territories. I think that covers New Mexico, Arizona and parts of Colorado. Anyway, since that's what the population was in the southwest back when Mexico lost the war with us, it seems fair to be big about all of this.

Of course the remaining illegals would have to be deported and seek legal means to live within the U.S.

But I'm just a dumb hick in fly over country, so what do I know?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: illegalimmigration; immigration; mexicanamericanwar; mexico; population
Just a thought....
1 posted on 05/02/2006 5:46:51 PM PDT by Tactical
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To: Tactical
ready?
The U.S. could allow 7,000 illegals to remain in California and 53,000 illegals to remain in the then New Mexican territories. I think that covers New Mexico, Arizona and parts of Colorado. Anyway, since that's what the population was in the southwest back when Mexico lost the war with us, it seems fair to be big about all of this.

So, you're not going to factor in for inflation (high fertility rates)? ;^)

2 posted on 05/02/2006 6:07:50 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: Tactical
Most Mexicans are descendants of Santa Anna anyway. He turned the majority of the women during that period into whores.
3 posted on 05/02/2006 6:08:11 PM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: Tactical
During the 1840's the United States tried to purchase New Mexico and California from Mexico, but the Mexicans changed their government every couple of months. During one of these upheavals the Mexicans invaded Texas. This started the Mexican-American war. In which the United States ultimately captured Mexico City. In the peace treaty the United States payed over $15 million dollars for California and New Mexico, and paid over $15 million dollars of Mexico's debt.
4 posted on 05/02/2006 6:18:58 PM PDT by CyberSpartacus
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To: Tactical
Before the gringos took over: The Chiricahua Apaches ran the show in most of south eastern Arizona. The mescalero apaches took care of Eastern New Mexico. Any mexicans caught in the area were usually slowly roasted over a small fire. I suspect this is why the area was sparsely populated.

Nevertheless, my gg grandfather started a ranch 7 miles from Fort Bowie in SE Arizona in 1883 (3 years before Geronimo surrendered).

5 posted on 05/02/2006 6:22:19 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: vetvetdoug

Not just Santa Ana; Pancho Villa was said to have had 100 "wives" but only 7 legal wives.


6 posted on 05/02/2006 6:25:57 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: Tammy8

Pancho's first and legal wife was Luz Corral who could not bear children because Pancho gave her syphilis. She told my wife this back in the 60's when she visited her in Nuevo Laredo. My wife's mother was kidnapped by Pancho when she was a baby; this was a tried and true Pancho method to recruit pistoleros. Her father joined and then escaped with his daughter. Don't believe this? My wife's ancestors have a spanish land grant from the King of Spain along the rio grande.


7 posted on 05/02/2006 6:40:16 PM PDT by Huevos Rancheros (Support Radio Free Mexico--Cesar Chavez)
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To: Huevos Rancheros

My information on Pancho Villa's wives came from a woman who's grandfather was friends with Pancho Villa. She told me the only woman he built a home for was Luz- she pronounced it almost like lew-eece or a long drawn out Lucy is that the first wife you refer to? The irony is the lady that told me about Pancho Villa lives in Columbus, New Mexico. Life takes funny turns doesn't it?

Are you saying he only had one wife? The lady that told me about Pancho Villa portrayed him as a Robin Hood type.


8 posted on 05/02/2006 7:09:59 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: Tactical

The people of New Mexico were never Mexican.


9 posted on 05/02/2006 7:13:43 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: DumpsterDiver

Did you know thast the fertility rate in the British colonies of North America between 1715 and 1776 were the highest known to world history. The difference between the Colonials who faced the British Army in New Jersey was that the Colonials were several inches taller on the average. Better nutrition, you know, I(AC, Americans of boith European and African stock bred like rabbits during the decades before the Revolution. This was even though the death rate was high, which it would remain until the 20th Century.


10 posted on 05/02/2006 7:18:45 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
"...The people of New Mexico were never Mexican..."

But we'd better deport them, anyhow, just to be on the safe side.

/sarc

11 posted on 05/02/2006 7:26:53 PM PDT by -=SoylentSquirrel=- (“People don't start wars, governments do.”.........Ronald Reagan)
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To: RobbyS
Did you know thats the fertility rate in the British colonies of North America between 1715 and 1776 were the highest known to world history.

Yea I just did an average of my family first seven generation born in America from 1635 to 1920... the average was 9.285 children per generation.....

12 posted on 05/02/2006 10:16:24 PM PDT by tophat9000 (If it was illegal French Canadians would La Raza back them? Racist back there race over country)
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To: tophat9000
The high fertility among slaves in the Chesapeake Bay colonies was a new development. In the Islands they didn't reproduce. The surplus of slaves in Virginia was one reason the slave trade became unpopular. Virginia slaves no longer paid for their keep. But it was the beginning of the population boom world wide associated with the agricultural revolution. The historian Morgan argued that the growth of the slave population pushed the colony toward popular government. Like it or not, the aristocrats had to make common cause with the white lower classes.
13 posted on 05/03/2006 6:26:08 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
The historian Morgan argued that the growth of the slave population pushed the colony toward popular government. Like it or not, the aristocrats had to make common cause with the white lower classes.

While I could see ..."slave population pushed the colony toward popular government"... as a contributing factor to the pushed to popular government

.... I would then expect the epicenter of the moves to popular government and later revolution in the colonies would mirror the epicenter of slavery in the colonies

...I.E the center popular government / revolution would have been in the South and New England a non factor

This does not seen to be the historical case and historian Morgan argument seen to have a built in PC spin of "the Slaves payed for our freedom"

14 posted on 05/03/2006 10:26:23 AM PDT by tophat9000 (If it was illegal French Canadians would La Raza back them? Racist back there race over country)
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To: tophat9000

Virginia and Massachusetts had very different histories, but it is worth noting that the elites in Virginia and in Massaachusetts still had enough in common to form a coalition. This mirrored the English whigs, where the Whigs were an alliance of great landowners and the merchant class of the City. Each was disposed against a strong central government, because each wanted to control their local control. Against them in 1789 was the coalition led by General Washington, who as CINC had suffered from the factionalism of Congress and who realized the need for a stronger central government, especially after the popular rebellion known as Shays Rebellion.


15 posted on 05/03/2006 1:25:59 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Tactical
But I'm just a dumb hick in fly over country, so what do I know?

You could start by tellng us how you plan to identify and deport a few million residents of California, some of whom can get guns without too much trouble.
16 posted on 05/03/2006 1:30:06 PM PDT by HostileTerritory
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To: HostileTerritory
You could start by tellng us how you plan to identify and deport a few million residents of California, some of whom can get guns without too much trouble.

Look up the definition of "tongue-in-cheek" for my post. However, no birth certificate, or valid form of ID might be a start and something that the Border Patrol already does before deporting someone. But first we might consider securing our borders a bit more before we worry too much about immigration enforcement.

After that, for those in country that are here illegally, we have to handle them one at a time. This problem didn't happen overnight and won't be solved overnight.

Personally I'm not so worried about illegals that come to work and better themselves. But there's no need to shove demands down America's throat and mention that "honkies" should go back to Europe.

That brings out the protectionist in me. But like I said, what do I know?

17 posted on 05/03/2006 3:08:25 PM PDT by Tactical
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