Boadicea May Have Had Her Chips On Site Of McDonald's

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 5-25-2006 | Nick Britten

[BenLurkin]

I LOVE my redhead.

[kalee]

ping

[Salamander]

Screw you.

It's not our fault that you're not man enough to handle us.

[Salamander]

LOL!

[norton]

Not a fan I take it.

[PzLdr]

I have NEVER understood why the British put a statue of her up, instead of say Cassivellaunus or Caratacus; both of whom led resistance to the Romans, and in the case of Caratacus, a fairly long guerrilla war.

Bouddica, on the other hand, refused to allow the Iceni to plant a crop for the year of her revolt, leaving them to face starvation AND the Roman Army when she lost. Her only allies were the neighboring Trinovanti, and her practice of large scale murder didn't help her win may more allies.

Her strategic vision seemed to be limited to attacking civil centers, and looting [The IXth Legion stumbled into her], and she made no effort to find the bulk of the Roman Army which was in Wales, attacking Mona [the island of Anglesey (p/s ?)]and wiping out the Druids.

As I stated in an earlier post, she let the Romans choose a battlefield that negated her vast superiority in numbers and prevented flanking and envelopment. Her tactical plan went from 'mill around, mill!' to a clusterf*ck charging the best, and most disciplined heavy infantry in the world. She then fled the battlefield, leaving the people she'd taken there to a grisly fate. And the reprisals the Romans exacted on the Iceni, Trinovanti, and any tribe with members that joined her on their own was so severe that Paullinus was subsequently relieved of his command and governorship and recalled to Rome; and Britain never revolted again.

Fan? No.

[SunkenCiv]

Heh... or King Arthur for that matter... oh, wait, whomever the character Arthur represented, he was resisting the ancestors of the English, while Boadicea was resisting the Romans. Big difference. ;')

Had someone gotten rid of Nero a little earlier, the Romans were well on their way to conquest of all the British Isles, and I don't doubt that they would have succeeded.

Thanks for those posts.

[PzLdr]

I don't think they would have gone much farther than they did. The Romans, being the Romans, apparently did a cost/benefit analysis before they hit Britain. They apparently overestimated what the place was worth. One could argue that Bouddica KEPT the Romans in England. Nero, apparently, contemplated withdrawing because the upkeep was a net loss to the Treasury. While they were arguing about the dishonor of leaving, the biddy attacked. At that point NO Roman Emperor was going to allow withdrawal.

I think the cost analysis approach was one of the reasons the Romans never invaded Ireland, and made no serious attempt to overrun Scotland.

[SunkenCiv]

The Romans didn't generally wall their cities until the 3rd century, and even colony towns were often unfortified. Boadicea destroyed undefended towns and mostly slaughtered defenseless civilians. When it came time to overwhelm a much smaller Roman force, pllllt, she was gone.

I really enjoyed reading Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars years ago, particularly the last book in which Vercingetorix was surrounded with a good sized force on a hilltop fort; Caesar built pallisades all the way around it, and knowing that all of Gaul was on its way to relieve Vercingetorix, built another set of pallisades on the outside, a sort of doughnut. That guy sure had a set of stones. ;')

[Pharmboy]

Well, she certainly didn't do any worse against the Roman Legions than any number of other indigenous Euros. I guess the Germanic tribes had the best track record against the Romans, but I am not very well read on this subject.

[SunkenCiv]

Agricola made a very serious attempt to conquer Scotland, circumnavigated Britain, and found the Orkneys and perhaps the Shetlands, and then was recalled. In recent years a fortified Roman-era trading town in NE Ireland has been found. But the Romans had other pressing business elsewhere. :')

[1rudeboy]

That's the spirit! I'd fertilize your eggs.

[PzLdr]

An alliance of German tribes led by Hermann the Cherusci [known by the Romans as Arminius] a Roman trained soldier, and, I believe a Roman citizen, ambushed three legions [XVII, XVIII, and XIX] under the extremely inept command of Quintillius Varus, and annihilated them [and their families and camp followers in a three day running battle in the Teutoburg Forest. [Hermann led them into the trap].Aside from punitive expeditions, and a mission to recover the lost eagles, and properly bury the dead, the Romans pulled back to the Rhine, and never sought to annex Germany east of that river again [although archaeologists are now finding a fairly extensive net of German-Roman settlements from before the battle. the three legions were never reconstituted.

Although not 'Euros', the peoples with the best track records against the Romans were the Carthaginians [Hannibal KILLED 50,000 Romans at Cannae], the Parthians almost entirely annihilated Crassus' army at Carrhae, and the Sassanid Persians [who actually captured a Caesar]. Second honors would go to the Huns and the Goths [Adrianople], but the Roman Army they faced was not the Roman Army of earlier times.

[SunkenCiv]

Arminius / Herman had trained as an auxiliary I believe, and also knew his victim. Turncoats definitely have an advantage. The battlefield was located about 15 or 20 years ago (hmm... maybe it was longer, brain fart), identified based on coins and other artifacts.

Afterward Augustus redrew the border, basing it on the Rhine, having (after the civil wars were over) cut the size of the regular army in half and making up the difference with auxiliary legions, to 58 legions (combined), plus the Praetorian Guard, and probably the naval forces (not sure they were in or out of the count of legions; there were, hmm, five major bases). The Romans maintained order and their frontiers for hundreds of years, even while the regular legions were no longer Roman.

Still in the time of Augustus, there were campaigns across the Rhine, and the Danube; colony towns were planted, and a system of (what we would call) bribery or payoffs were used to keep the neighbors across the frontier from getting restive. The largesse (and trade) moved backwards into the hinterlands, such that Roman-era goods are occasionally found in areas never held by the empire.

[Salamander]

To quote the mighty Meatloaf;

"I bet you say that to *all* the girls".


[but seriously....thanks]....;]

[Pharmboy]

Thanks to the both of you for filling me in on some of the relevant history and giving me some names and places to search out and learn about.

[Psycho_Bunny]

Why isn't it legal to punch headline writers?

[SunkenCiv]

Nice tagline.

The Upper German-Raetian border wall
http://www.limes-in-deutschland.de/limes_english.html

[ApplegateRanch]

"murdering and raping her family", but not in that order.

You sound awfully certain of that; are you really sure?

[SunkenCiv]

Ewwwww.