[Valin]

"You may fire when ready Gridley" Commodore George Dewey

[massgopguy]

To paraphrase an old quote. "How many Divisions does Prof Dawkins have?

[conservativepoet]

Thanks for posting...insightful read... :0)

[trek]

"The genius of the American proposal was its insistence on a state (in other words governmental) secularism that guarantees religious freedoms, including atheism, in a pluralist society."

I kind of liked this line. It reflects the inconvenient truth (take that Algore) that America is a Christian country that is fundamentally tolerant of other religions. Much ill derives from a failure to recognize this fact.

[Bahbah]

I found this very interesting. I do not, however, understand what the author refers to in this sentence: "The importance of understanding, and conserving, that historic experiment could not be more urgent today as President George W Bush attempts to hijack the protective neutrality of America’s state secularism with evangelical convictions."

If there have been attempts on the part of the President to "hijack" anything with evangelical convictions, I have missed it entirely.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[PGalt]

I thought it was an interesting article...

...The genius of the American proposal was its insistence on a state (in other words governmental) secularism that guarantees religious freedoms, including atheism, in a pluralist society.

The importance of understanding, and conserving, that historic experiment could not be more urgent today as President George W Bush attempts to hijack the protective neutrality of America’s state secularism with evangelical convictions...

...but he lost me there.

[sure_fine]

btt

[rawcatslyentist]

Dawkins=retarded offspring of monkey fish frogs! Final proof of evolution.

[Quix]

Worthwhile read.

Good points. Don't agree 100% with every sentence but a good read.

Thanks.

[fish hawk]

Dawkins as God! Not too far off base for some of the posts I've seen on FR. He is oft times quoted as scripture and god breathed. "Beware the wisdom of man". God

[True-Stu]

Interesting read indeed. I do find the writer to be a little off the mark and a poor representation of the mind and intellect of God. In fact, I find it extremely presumptuous, almost Dawkins-esque egotism, to attribute ones own thoughts and writing to God, even when it is done in jest.

[aculeus]

John Cornwell has written a few books which some FRs may not like.


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/105-6368024-2099629?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=john+cornwell&Go.x=14&Go.y=14&Go=Go

[KDD]

There are times when a fine line exists between persecution and satire

So says Allah.

Richard Dawkins could learn something from the reaction of Ben Franklin to the publication of Thomas Paines "Age of Reason".

In a letter to Paine he wrote...

TO THOMAS PAINE. [Date uncertain.]

DEAR SIR,
I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence, that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion, that, though your reasonings are subtile and may prevail with some readers, you will not succeed so as to change the general sentiments of mankind on that subject, and the consequence of printing this piece will be, a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits against the wind, spits in his own face.

But, were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? You yourself may find it easy to live a virtuous life, without the assistance afforded by religion; you having a clear perception of the advantages of virtue, and the disadvantages of vice, and possessing a strength of resolution sufficient to enable you to resist common temptations. But think how great a portion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women, and of inexperienced, inconsiderate youth of both sexes, who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice, to support their virtue, and retain them in the practice of it till it becomes habitual, which is the great point for its security.

And perhaps you are indebted to her originally, that is, to your religious education, for the habits of virtue upon which you now justly value yourself. You might easily display your excellent talents of reasoning upon a less hazardous subject, and thereby obtain a rank with our most distinguished authors. For among us it is not necessary, as among the Hottentots, that a youth, to be raised into the company of men, should prove his manhood by beating his mother.

I would advise you, therefore, not to attempt unchaining the tiger, but to burn this piece before it is seen by any other person; whereby you will save yourself a great deal of mortification by the enemies it may raise against you, and perhaps a good deal of regret and repentance. If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it. I intend this letter itself as a proof of my friendship, and therefore add no professions to it; but subscribe simply yours,

B. Franklin

In fact, Paine's views caused such vehement public opposition that he spent his last years in New York as “an outcast” in “social ostracism” and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Too many words. South Park destroyed Dawkins nonsense far more effectively than pages of argument.

[aruanan]

The genius of the American proposal was its insistence on a state (in other words governmental) secularism that guarantees religious freedoms, including atheism, in a pluralist society

Well, gee, here's a place where "God" is just plain incorrect. The government was not intended to be secular. It was intended to not play favorites with one religious sect against others.