Posted on 08/05/2008 12:38:26 PM PDT by Shermy
Jean Duley testified that she was "scared to death" of Bruce Ivins after he left her a string of harassing phone messages, according to an audio recording taken during a July 24 peace order hearing.
Duley, 45, told Judge Milnor Roberts that Ivins planned to "go out in a blaze of glory," had bought a bulletproof vest and a gun and planned to kill his co-workers.
The audio recording was obtained by The Frederick News-Post on Monday.
Duley told the court she got to know Ivins while running group and individual counseling sessions at the Comprehensive Counseling Associates in Frederick where she worked as the program director.
When questioned by her attorney Mary McGuirk Drawbaugh, Duley said she knew him for at least the past six months and told the court she saw him once a week.
Drawbaugh: "And during the course of your involvement with him, professionally, did he ever make any threats that were what you would consider to be homicidal in nature?"
Duley: "Yes."
Drawbaugh: "OK. And did he make any threats that you would consider to be threatening to your personal safety during the course of those six months?"
Duley: "Yes. I do."
During a July 9 group [witenesses?] session, Duley described Ivins as "extremely agitated" and "out of control." When she asked him what was going on, he told the group "a very long and detailed homicidal plan" including killing his co-workers and roaming the streets of Frederick trying to pick a fight with somebody so that he could stab the person.
Since he was "about to be indicted on capital murder charges he was going to go out in a blaze of glory that he was going to take everybody out with him. ... That they weren't going to take him out without a fight," she told the court.
Duley was concerned because she said she knew him so well, so she tried to get as many details about the attacks as possible. The next day, July 10, she called the Frederick Police Department who removed him from USAMRIID at Fort Detrick and had him committed to Frederick Memorial Hospital.
On July 11, he called her twice just before 4:30 a.m. She told the court the first message was just "sort of a ranting, blaming me for having this done to him. It was sort of just rambling." In the second message Ivins told her "obviously we no longer have a therapeutic relationship and how could I do this to him." [smart guy]
After he was transferred to Sheppard Pratt Health System, a psychiatric hospital in Baltimore, he called her again at 11:25 a.m. July 12.
"That one was rather scary," Duley said in the recording. "He very calmly thanked me for ruining his life and opening ... allowing the FBI to now be able to prosecute him for the murders and that it was all my fault. And "it's going to be my fault that they can now get him."
Drawbaugh did not enter the telephone recordings into evidence for the court because FBI agents had taken them for their investigation.
Ivins was supposed to have a permanent commitment hearing at Sheppard Pratt, but Duley said his attorney advised him to check himself in voluntarily so that he may leave when he wished. Drawbaugh told the court he probably was being released from the hospital as the hearing was going on. --
She decided to get the peace order after an FBI agent working the case suggested it.
Drawbaugh: "At this time, Ms. Duley, are you fearful for your personal safety?"
Duley: "I am and so is the FBI."
Drawbaugh: "OK. And can you tell the court why it is based on what you have testified to during the course of since July 9 that you are fearful of your safety?"
Duley: "As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people either through poisoning. He is a revenge killer. When he feels he that he has been slighted or has had ... especially towards women ... he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killing. He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic homicidal killer."
Roberts granted the temporary peace order and set a hearing for a final peace order Thursday -- a day before Duley was set to testify against Ivins before a federal grand jury.
The court ordered Ivins not to abuse or contact Duley or go to her home or job. The order was dismissed Thursday after Ivins' apparent suicide.
Drawbaugh: "Is there anything further that you think Judge Roberts needs to know with regards to the situation before he makes his decision?"
Duley: "I'm scared to death."
“As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people either through poisoning. He is a revenge killer. When he feels he that he has been slighted or has had ... especially towards women ... he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killing. He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic homicidal killer.”
This whole statement I now believe has nothing to do with what she observed in him but what the FBI agents were telling her.
She probably felt privileged to hear it!
I wonder if the FBI will use her as the authority for the statement, rather than admit its true origin.
Apparently he’s seen “pure” anthrax before - and that wasn’t what “hovered” I presume.
there’s something really bad going on I feel. When I read yesterday the articles that seem to say the new tests was not done the actual anthrax dust but derived from anthrax in Stevens’ blood, that reraised red flags that the argument you have on those long threads is worthwhile. :)
I’ve been following this in a rather bemused fashion. (The bit about the sorority was WAY over the top !)
We’re all depending on leaked information on this-and way too much is being leaked...via Duley ???
Some of the circumstantial stuff is persuasive but there are still gaping holes. For example,how did the envelopes get to NJ ?
I’m sure Ivins WAS troubled. Anyone would be troubled who had the FBI on his case, following him everywhere, sitting outside his home where everyone can see them, questioning neighbors, bribing the suspect’s children and telling them that their father was a murderer.
It reminds me of the way they harrassed the witness who said he saw a mysterious car parked at Fort Marcy Park while Vince Foster was being carried to the place where he was set down to be found by the Park Police.
So, they proceeded to tell Ivins that Duley was ratting on him and to tell Duley that Ivins was threatening her. Not surprising that Ivins got upset about that violation of professional confidence and even acted disturbed at a therapy session.
Disgusting. And all too typical of the FBI since clinton promoted all his stooges to the top levels.
OK, more bemusement.
There is one story that says the “blend” was traceble to a jar of presumably preblended germs, and that Ivins or someone else accessed it.
Yet the Washington Post today floats a story that Ivins had access to a dryer, implying he made the stuff himself.
Aren’t these two story lines conflicting? Or am I misunderstanding them?
From NPR-
"Ivins also had access to a sophisticated freeze-dryer, which could have been used to turn the wet bacteria into a dry form. Ivins' co-worker Jeff Adamovicz says he remembers the unit, called a lyopholizer, in the hallway and says it was used to dry protein samples for vaccine work. Adamovicz said the dryer was signed out to Ivins. Adamovicz remembers FBI agents testing the dryer, but they never hauled it away, a sign it most likely came up clean. An additional piece of equipment would also have been required to mill the dried spores into a powdered form.
"An additional piece of equipment." If they had Ivins on it, the FBI would have leaked it. Looks like the "made the stuff himself" story from today is fading by quitin' time.
The next day, July 10, she called the Frederick Police Department who removed him from USAMRIID at Fort Detrick and had him committed to Frederick Memorial Hospital.
On July 11, he called her twice just before 4:30 a.m. She told the court the first message was just "sort of a ranting, blaming me for having this done to him.
She had him arrested, and then he started ranting crazy things, such as blaming her for having him arrested.
He sure may have been looney, but I'm backing him on this point at least.
I can't imagine any forensic psychiatrist making such a statement about a person who was seemingly functioning at work and with his friendships. This woman, whose training is never given, probably experienced negative transference and did not recognize it.
Dealing with troubling and troubled people requires mastery of your profession as well as common sense, patience and emotional stability.
I don't have the slightest idea whether he is the one mailing anthrax; however, unless he told his therapist that he had, the chain of evidence is only inferential.
I wonder if some of this is being generated by Siddiqui’s lawyers - she just happens to be in the news right now.
I read this story today too (CNN ?) Supposedly, Ivins “got checked out” in the use of this gear, signed for it,and worked with it.
I’d GUESS there was more than enough data to consider him a strong suspect;but nowhere near enough to present a winnable case.
Again: the FBI’s “Office of Profession Responsibility” should be all over this case - nailing down the leaker(s).
Yesterday morning the leaks started that the mailbox was “100 yards” from a sorority.
By the afternoon it is admitted their is no sorority “house”, which is what the leaker probably meant to imply, but some kind of storage space for the group, and no external evidence any one else would know about it.
This morning the story was he had access to a “dryer.” By noon friends explained this was not unusual and he had a project needed for it. By late afternoon NPR suggests this piece of equipment was not the only one required for the attacks.
Grassley said if the case closes the Senate will do a full examination. I predict the case won’t be “closed.”
You got that right.
The tidbit that stops me cold is how relentlessly the FBI pursued that Hatfill guy. At one point the FBI even drained an entire pond near Hatfill’s house to figure if Hatfill could have transferred the anthrax spores underwater!
So after wasting God knows how much money going after Hatfill (and I always thought Hatfill might indeed be guilty), not to mention the million dollar settlement...I am to believe that by golly NOW the FBI has the right guy? In fact he’s been working right alongside Hatfill all these years....our bad.
This is just not believable and I’d add that having these crazies working at a biological weapon research facility makes no sense. For I’ve read that Ivans acted crazy at work and now he’s been threatening people everywhere?
It ain’t resonating with me.
"...As the Times, The BRAD BLOG, and many others have now noted, the case appears to hinge largely on the testimony of a social worker, Jean C. Duley, who had treated Ivins for a number of months in group therapy. As it turns out, however, Duley herself has a criminal history (as detailed by both Larisa Alexandrovna and Greenwald) and is no longer working at the Fredrick, MD, facility where Ivins was being treated, according to Bloomberg News..."
FWIW, high IQ VIPs have a tendency not receive state-of-the-art care. Part of the problem is if the IQ differential between therapist and patient is over 15 IQ points, communication problems are anticipated. Just like in a marriage, there is a subtle inability to really understand one another by virtue of thinking and reasoning on different bases.
Another part of the problem is very high IQ engineers, scientists and mathematicians and so forth are prone to be "hate to make mistakes types" who seem odd and eccentric to the average professional. Seemingly these individuals are hyper-rational on one hand but prey to the silliest worries and interests on the other. Their scrupulous and sensitive nature often makes the high IQ VIP prone to respond poorly to interpretations let alone criticism.
Like most in the bourgeois, these folks base their self system on how they look, how others see them and what they do for a living. Professional success is, then, the basis of much of their self-system. Threaten this, and you threaten their very identity.
A case like this is necessarily going to be circumstantial. Good circumstantial evidence, however, is proof of circumstances that exclude any logical explanation except a defendant’s guilt, OJ’s DNA and its locations that proved he murdered Nicole being good examples. Thusfar, however, the FBI has merely been leaking a lot of virulent smears about Ivins, smears that probably wouldn’t be admissible in court. That smearathon, all by itself, gives me serious doubts about the FBI’s case. It sounds altogether too much like the Haditha Marine and Duke Lacrosse Players smearathons.
Do you have a link for this? Hadn't heard it. Thanks.
The weapons expert said the kind of anthrax could not have been made at Ft Detrick.
Most attorneys who've handled criminal cases pretty much follow the same rule of thumb},
It's safe to imagine that Ivins didn't get past 5 questions before hallucinating. That's why they had 20 or so sessions with him. FBI guys (and we have to assume the psychiatric personnel working with this guy were under their authority or influence) usually have a difficult time dealing with such people. That's why they work outside their credentials as accountants or lawyers ~ something like a high order borderline personality disorder except that here the "victim" finds it pleasing to force others into compliance with his or her orders.
BTW, all of that sort of thing can and does happen BEFORE the envelopes ever reached the 010 operation where they would be canceled.
Entirely too many people who should know better hang on to the date and place of cancellation as truly meaningful. Postal system experts know that the information is irrelevant.
Did the FBI let leak a top secret?
This woman has been busted 7 times for DUI in a relatively recent period of time. She shouldn’t be on the road, not even as a pedestrian at a controlled crosswalk.
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